Wife says her feelings have gone but will not move out

[LuckyPeachTraybake]

Hello

I'm new here and trying to work out what is going on with my marriage and what, if I anything I can do to help it.

I'll try and explain as best I can sorry in advance if it gets waffley.

Me (40) and wife (35) have been together 15 years, two kids in school.

We've been really happy and most people would say we're great together, until a few years ago when a friend told me she'd been messaging another guy, but that it had stopped and that's all it was.

I went home and very calmly confronted her about it. She denied it at first but when I told her I'd seen the messages (I hadnt) she came clean and admitted it.

She seemed genuinely remorseful and there probably was some distance in our relationship I hadn't realised due to busy lives with kids etc.

I always had her down as a loyal person with good morals so this did shock me a bit but as far as I'm aware it wasn't much of an emotional affair, more her entertaining attention from this other guy and she broke it off before anything happened.

I forgave her anyway and it did bring us closer together for a bit.

About 8 months ago, her family found out about this and were incredibly disappointed in her, I told them I knew, it was ages ago and I'd forgiven her but she broke down and said she was very unhappy in the marriage.

We talked and she said she felt I was controlling and she felt suffocated. Since the messaging thing I probably was a bit which manifested in me asking where she was, where she was going, who she was messaging etc. I'd never stop her doing anything or going anywhere but maybe she had a point, so I owned that.

Historically I'd always been the organised one and the provider, she didn't pay for anything or sort bills etc and we seemed to work quite well that way with her working part time and being more hands on with the kids.

She recently got a new job that she sees as her career and said she wanted more financial independence and resented the fact that I controlled the finances and sorted everything for her. Ironically I resented her because I took on all the stress and paid for everything and didn't feel appreciated so now she's sorting her own things on her own and that seems to be working much better (for me at least) I'm now doing much more with the kids where I can (drop offs, clubs, pick ups etc) because I've got flexibility at work to do it now.

She said that her feelings changing started before the messaging thing when we moved house and I was working on extending it, and busy with work and she was pregnant with our youngest.

She told me that basically her romantic feelings for me are dead, but that she still loves me. She said its not a physical thing but it's that she feels she has a wall up.

We said we'd try to make it work and things seemed OK the next couple of months if a little awkward but Christmas time we had an argument and she told me she wants a divorce.

She said she feels a lot of pressure and that she feels responsible for my emotions and feelings and it's exhausting.

Her family got involved again as they don't want us to split up and said we should have a break (not seeing other people, just living apart for a month) which we did.

During the break I decided to focus on myself and try not to communicate with her and respect her space. I read a lot and tried to understand myself better.

Since then I've been carrying this on and I can see what she means about my emotions. I didn't do much that didn't involve work, her or the kids so my happiness was probably quite closely linked to hers.

Now I'm into running, see much more of my mates, have got back into my hobbies.

I'm also much better at identifying my emotions and processing them rather than reacting to my feelings so I'm generally pretty calm and steady and would say I'm happy outside the relationship, so in this respect the whole thing has been really good for me.

She on the other hand didn't really leave me alone during the break, text or called every day wanting to do know how I was, what I was doing etc.

We agreed to try after the break, slowly.

Since then nothings really improved, if anything it feels like we're becoming more distant.

Over the whole period she's lost a lot of weight (unintentionally that she didn't need to lose) has withdrawn from all her friends and family. The only thing she seems to be happy about is her job. Although it does seem to be a big stressor of hers because when she's off in the school holidays she seems happier.

She says she still has no feelings for me but I don't think this is true.

She still confides in me, I'm pretty sure I'm the only person she talks to about her problems etc (mainly her relationship with her mum who is very controlling and tbh not that nice or supportive towards her which is a huge issue of its own)

If I go out she wants to know who with, where etc and makes jokes about me having an affair or going out on dates (I'm not btw)

I sat her down a few weeks ago and said that I love her, I want to be with her but I also want to be with someone who wants me and I want to feel some sort of affection and desire, so that whilst I would wait, I wouldn't wait for ever unless I could see something changing.

She said she didn't think it would change so we agreed to separate.

There was a lot of crying etc but we talked about splitting up and how it would work, what to do with kids, house etc (I stay and buy her out, she would move out and rent)

We agreed a period of 2-3 months for her to move out and that we wouldn't tell people or see other people while we are living together.

Since then I've asked her once if she's looked at houses and it seemed to really upset her.

Things do feel a bit different now, like the pressure has lifted and we're getting on a bit better.

We still sleep in the same bed, still go on the odd day out and eat together etc but we're not having any physical contact at all.

She doesn't seem very keen to progress with separating at all.

During the conversation we had about separating she got very upset when I mentioned the future and us both having other partners, she suggested that I seem very eager to move on and that that isn't even on her radar and isn't even something she's thinking about. She seemed to get a bit upset/aggressive/accusations that ill be planning moving on quickly.

It's worth mentioning when we got together she was very insecure, she's not had a great childhood and has had a couple of shitty relationships before ours. We had a tough first few months because of this but after she realised I wasn't an asshole that would cheat on her or abandon her she seemed to relax a bit.

She doesn't like talking about feelings etc, she did one session of marriage counselling with me and won't do any more. She won't go to the doctor, or really listen to anyone, she's just dead set on following how she feels.

It might sounds like im trying to avoid admitting my failings as a husband but I can't help feel that there is something else going on with her, she doesn't seem herself. I suggested she should have her hormones tested which went down like a fart in a space suit as I'm sure you can imagine.

It feels a bit like an identity crisis, I'd describe a lot of her behaviour as a bit entitled.

I also think she's really struggling with the shame from the messaging thing and people knowing about it. It's like she's built this narrative that she's only done it because she's in such an awful marriage and everything is being screened through that so i cant seem to do right for doing wrong. I even mentioned this to her and she acknowledged she could be doing that without realising.

I don't think it's an affair, she doesn't seem to want time alone when I offer it and it's not like her attention seems elsewhere. I genuinely belive it's time on her own burying her head in the sand that she wants.

I came on here to try and get a woman's perspective (maybe someone here has gone through something similar).

I've told a couple of my close and trusted mates and their advice varied from "She sounds mental, you should just have an affair" to "just stay with her and ride it out for the kids"

At the moment I'm just sitting here and waiting. Doesn't feel like I can do much else and on the whole apart from missing affection or feeling desired I'm fairly happy and to be honest if it doesn't work, I'm ok with divorce too (at 40 I figure I have plenty of time to start my life over and I'd rather it happen now then when I'm 50), if anything I'm more worried about her as I think she will struggle more than me, as does her family who are pretty worried about how she'll cope.

It's very much a battle of trying for her and the kids and not compromising my own self respect too much. It's obviously incredibly difficult for her too and I'm not even sure if the kind thing is for me to leave and make the decision for her,

I feel like I've done that already but it doesnt seem to be what she really wants.

If it is an identity crisis of some sort then maybe just staying kind and waiting while she gets it out of her system is all I need to do but it's starting to feel increasingly like I'm wasting my life a bit.

I don't believe marriage is meant to be easy but I think because my parents divorced when I was 10 I don't really have much of a reference point to know how hard it's meant to get.

Sorry I've rambled but any advice would be appreciated :)

Sorry I don't know what you mean. It's been 9 months of crap, prior to that 14 years of being happy.

If you mean my use of the term "happy families" I mean interacting normally as if nothing adverse is going on with the relationship.

I'm under no illusion this isn't normal and no, right now I'm not happy with the relationship. I'm more wondering if it's temporary/fixable and if not how I'm supposed to bring it to a head amicably with a wife who doesnt seem to want to do anything.

I am going to give you completely different advice to everyone else. If you have had 14 happy years, and one year of problems where she was texting another guy after years of being the primary carer, I think this marriage is fixable.

Your wife is ashamed of what she did, IMO, and possibly very depressed. She's avoidant because she can't fix any of it, doesn't know why her feelings shifted and is now shamed in front of her family.

She does (IMO) love you, you love her, and I think rushing at divorce in 9 months is quite fast, tbh, in the scheme of a whole life.

I have used Bruce Muzic's 'conflict cure' for relationships, it's a course, it costs money but it's about how to start from scratch de-escalating and getting past these stuck conflict stages in a relationship. I think it's better than therapy which focuses on counselling and speaking but not on bonding and emotional reconnection which is what you need to do before you start talking about difficult stuff.

I wonder if your wife is indeed peri-menopausal, depressed, and unsure what to do. I agree her family are not helpful.

Is there any need to push this to a conclusion right now? She's asked for more time. Why can't you give that? I think you want the emotional pain of being rejected and feeling awful to go away, and you are the taking action type, so you want to 'sort' the divorce.

One option is to push forward the divorce, get on ok as co-parents and move on with your lives. The other option is to see if the relationship can still work. I don't think it's dead in the water myself; I think it's a function of what you are putting into it, action and commitment. I suspect your wife isn't in a position to act to do this as she's depressed, feeling powerless and has all types of feelings going on.

If this doesn't chime or you don't want to try to resurrect this, fair enough, but I've seen plenty of marriages have this type of wobble, which is not a full-blown affair and go on to be stable, happy and living together. Life is long, and I think if you are emotionally devastated, that tells me you would like to fix things with her.

If immediately on taking your foot off the pedal means she then backs away again, then you may have no option, but I just wonder with more time, doing a relationship course like the one I mentioned (and I'd make that a condition of pausing the divorce) might work.

I get why you are mentioning sex- this is what has changed, and that's what makes me think she's got other issues like depression going on, she does (IMO) still want to reach out at times, and also loves you, but is stuck for some reason.

All the best whatever you decide to do.

It's Bruce Muzik, spelt like that. I find his advice and courses to be extremely intuitive and insightful about how to turn around seemingly insurmountable relationship problems. You can do it alone if your partner won't join you.

It must be hard for you, it's not nice to be in this situation.

Why don't you move out @LuckyPeachTraybake and leave her in the house with the DC?

She absolutely should not leave if you are quite happy to remain owning a family home with the expectation that she rents for the rest of her life.

You said in your OP that you paid for everything and then later that she always worked, apart from maternity leaves, but which is it? Do you realise that looking after pre-school children is both a financial contribution in itself and a long term career penalty.

Did your wife have access to your salary when you were 'paying for everything'?

If you can't afford to buy a house separate to the marital home, it should be sold to set you both up in your own smaller properties.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write that.

I mentioned in my post I don't know anyone in a happy marriage long enough to realise whether situations like ours are recoverable or not so it's reassuring you know of instances where they are.

I think a lot of what you say is true, of course I would give it more time if there is action, the problem I have is that I can't seem to get her to anything, it's only since she knows I've been serious about getting a divorce that she's started to open up a bit.

I was bothered about sex when it dropped off a bit but ive come to realise that's a symptom of the problems not the cause, I long for her affection, and tbh just want to feel wanted again and sex for me is the ultimate display of that.

I'm honestly over the messaging thing (I won't call it an affair) in many ways I think it helped us appreciate each other a bit more because the 2 years after felt great (she says otherwise but I'm not sure) I don't think she is over it though, which I why I think it's all started falling apart after her family found out about it.

It could be something with her, she doesn't seem herself, is closed off has lost weight but I guess relationship issues may have this effect on her too. Until last Saturday she refused to consider it a possibility but even now she has I don't think she'll get help.

You are right I am a doer and I can be impatient so 9 months with no movement has felt like a lifetime for me.

I'll have to see what tonight brings and if she seems receptive might mention the course to her.

Was nice to see a more positive response to the situation :)

If you would like your marriage to survive, you should address the finances. Why don't you ask your wife if finances and access to them are a problem in the marriage @LuckyPeachTraybake ?

I think you don't want to address it at all, which should tell you all you need to know.

It would be very difficult for your wife to feel like an adult an equal partner if she has historically had to ask for handouts and permission to buy things.

It seems like you are hoping you can extricate yourself from tge marriage with the house, your pension, 'your' savings without ever having to examine the relationship and your behaviour, to pretend that the financial situation is entirely separate to the relationship and it's problems.

You have to address it if you have any hope of a future meaningful relationship with anyone.

it’s clear you have got “your ducks in a row” and she has not or won’t.

Get an estate agent in to value your property and see a family solicitor to get you divorce kicked off and move on with your life
you cannot force someone to engage with you- but you need to take control of your own life now and kick her out of it

Agree with this. There seems to be a power imbalance in the relationship, with you holding the upper hand. That could well be contributing to your wife's paralysing sense of powerlessness. Despite your occasional descent into annoying flippant self-defensiveness on this thread, you seem to be genuinely seeking answers, so it would be good to honestly examine how and especially WHY you contributed to this power imbalance. If not this marriage, your next serious relationship will benefit from such self-insights.

I also agree with @Corvidsarethebest 's post. You've had 14 contented years but after one bad one, you're ready to throw in the towel. It's not a great look, to be honest. It has a whiff of those vile Hs who leave their wife when she gets diagnosed with MS or cancer because who's going to look after them now that their wife appliance is malfunctioning? Similarly, it's coming across like your wife's depression, paralysis, and spiraling are irritating you because she's not being affectionate enough (aka not having sex with you enough) - you're thinking about what you want and "just want her to get back to normal". It's pretty self-centred. Multiple PPs have commented on how your posts are very "me me I myself me me". I suggest you think about that too.

I'm pretty sure your wife also wants to get back to "normal". I doubt that she wants to be suffering this fear and pain and turmoil.

I suspect that your wife has come to a fork in the road of her life because her texting to bro's friend was revealed and it led to a vicious response from her family that has reopened all of her childhood wounds. These are deep-seated and extremely painful wounds. She was clearly brought up with enormous FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt) by a dysfunctional and toxic family. If you understand that, and how this event has left her completely unmoored, you can help her, because (1) it will help you become more empathetic and patient and (2) there is a path out of the FOG. That path involves extensive counseling with a therapist who is trained to help people who grew up within a dysfunctional family. It is not easy, but it can effectively free people from the millstones and chains of their childhood.

So before you throw in the towel, I suggest that you do some reading about toxic families - Susan Forward's "Toxic Parents" and "Toxic In Laws" are a good starting point - and encourage and help your wife to find a therapist. The conflict cure suggested by @Corvidsarethebest might also be very useful once your wife is emotionally stable enough to participate effectively in it.

Therapy can be expensive, but it's a lot cheaper than divorce. And this way, your wife has a chance at becoming a truly happy authentic person. She needs you right now, this is the time to step up to help her take the correct path at this fork in her life, not threaten her into submission with divorce or leave her flailing around helplessly.

I think you're underestimating the effect that having what sounds like an awful abusive family is having on your wife and you're compounding her distress by rushing this. She probably feels dumped and helpless. I agree with the above poster who says that this might be salvageable as you seem as though you love her and don't really want to divorce. That's not insignificant.. But I think you're sending mixed messages to her - it's almost as though you're disregarding your own ambivalence about divorce and have flipped a coin that's landed on divorce and you're now just trying to Get It Done. If you are sending mixed messages it's no wonder you're getting them back with her moving towards you and then retreating. She's probably feeling vulnerable, rushed and not emotionally safe with you.

You wanting to take her on a date whilst also ramping up the divorce timeline is mixed messaging and possibly quite cruel.

I don't know how you attempt to move forwards though, if she's adamant she won't think about counselling. Like a PP I do think you need to examine your own part in this, whether you've been treating her like a child financially (your earlier posts here do whiff a bit of trying to screw her financially) and whether you're perhaps punishing her for the messaging. It seems like she probably feels quite a lot of shame over the messaging especially since her family knows, which must have been awful for her.

The Susan Forward book mentioned by a PP (Toxic Parents) is excellent.

Believe it or not I've tried. I added her to my bank account so it's joint when we got married but she won't register for the online banking.

I tried showing her my spreadsheet of our outgoings and she didn't care.

She has her own bank account and her own money that I don't have access to. She spends all of this on whatever she wants (mainly clothes and make up as far as I can tell)

She isn't interested in money/bills/finances at all and is very bad at managing it (which is why historically I started covering her bills as well as the joint ones)

She's never had to ask for handouts in the past as she's a cardholder on my credit card account with a £10k limit for food, kids stuff, fuel etc. I just pay it off each month and to be fair to her she's never really taken the piss with it.

She has had to indirectly ask (drop hints) recently, since giving me the card back (when she decided she wants to be more independant. So now pays her own bills (phone, fuel etc). )

I do see my savings as mine but accept that they are ours. I see them as mine because instead of spending all my spare money i generally live a pretty modest lifestyle and I've put it into a S&S account. If she did this herself I'd see these as hers.

Debts / savings / divorce costs all balance out to neutral so largely irrelevant anyway, I just wanted to keep savings and debts to reduce what I need to add the mortgage for a buyout, it's not giving her less money, just doing it in a way where I'm borrowing some of it at 0% by keeping hold of the credit card debt.

I'd like to keep my pension but I have to share I will, it's only worth about £30k at the moment anyway and I can start another one after.

The impression I'm sensing most seem to have is she'll be penniless. She'll have a decent 6 figure settlement plus maintenance if we do end up splitting up.

I find your posts confusing. Your pension pot is smallish, you claim it is necessary to be careful with money and critical of your wives spending and that until recently your wife did most of the childcare side. Yet you seem confident that when you spilt and need to do 50% of drop offs, pick ups, school holidays, sickness and medical appointments you are going to be much better off financially and will quickly recover anything lost in the divorce?

Can see where you are coming from on all fronts TBH but I think there are a few areas you've perhaps made some incorrect assumptions about me and my motives.

I've definitely contributed to the "power imbalance" you mention but I haven't done this intentionally. I think it started because when we met I'd generally got my life together, owned my house, she hadn't and she moved in and slotted into it. I very quickly got used to just paying for stuff, which made sense (and still does now) because I earn more.

I mentioned in another post, she's bad at managing money, so I've taken on more than I should have to help her (partly to help her and TBH partly because it was just easier / more cost effective to do so).

I see now this hasn't helped and probably has resulted in a situation where I feel a bit like a Dad not letting her learn from her own mistakes.

In terms of previous relationships, I've not had these issues and I suspect because with those, we were at similar stages in life and approached things like this a bit more equally.

In terms of your comments about me leaving and threatening divorce I'm totally confident she knows I don't want to leave her or divorce her. If she hadn't mentioned it to be previously and told me she thinks her feelings are dead and won't come back I wouldn't have entertained it.

You mention her depression like its factural and she's been diagnosed, I think there is a good chance she is, I think there is a good chance its childhood trauma rearing up but I don't know that for sure and surely it would be a bit ignorant of me to pin it down to this specifically because by doing so this circumvents the need for me to acknowledge my own failings in the marriage

My reference to the date, was because at this junction what I'm saying is, we either divorce, or we try and get back on track and its reference to a previous time I asked her out for the day and she said she didn't want to because she didn't want to get my hopes up.

My point was whether its dating, her going to the docs, a therapist or even just opening up a bit more to her friends etc she needs to do something other than bury her head in the sand and pretend nothings going on.

Its only since her believing I'll go through with it that she's looked inwards and considered that maybe our relationship isn't the only factor affecting her, which I'm seeing as a positive, rightly (or more probably wrongly) I'm seeing this as the only means towards getting her to get the help she needs.

I also agree, and I think that she would too that she does need me right now but what I'm struggling with is working out how to get her to take action. You've probably gathered if you've read my posts that she doesn't want to do anything. I've suggested individual therapy and said I think she needs it, whether we stay together or part. I offered to pay for it, but I've stopped short of finding a therapist, booking an appointment and making her go as I think that this crosses one of the boundaries that I feel we actually need to put in to make any relationship moving forward work.

I don't feel I'm throwing in the towel, the very fact I've waited 9 months patiently, whilst trying everything I can and have even resorted to posting on a forum for women should hopefully demonstrate otherwise. It's not me leaving her because she's broken right now, it would be me leaving her because I'm not sure if I'm the reason why and also because I don't know what else to do.

I do want what's best for her but really don't know what that is, as I said before I don't know if the kind thing is to let her go (which she doesn't seem to be letting me, or at the very least make it easy) or try and get her to seek help (which I don't think will happen unless I take the reigns a bit more and find her a therapist, book her an appointment and drag her there, which feels a bit controlling).

I'll check the books out, I suspect they'll confirm to me what I already know / suspect is happening, the issue will be getting my wife to take it on board.

I didn't claim its neccesary to be careful with money, I work hard, I know how money works and I don't live an exotic lifestyle by choice.

I didn't mean to be critical of her spending, she spends her money on what she wants, but she does spend it.

For me an extra £100k on the mortgage is £550 / month.

At the moment I pay for everything for a family of 4 100% of the time. The kids do clubs now anyway.

If we split I will need to pay for myself (very low maintenance), 2 kids 50% the time and presumably some maintenance for them when they with my wife.

If they are with you 50% of the time and you are paying for clubs and extra bits I wouldn’t think you would be expected to pay cms but I may be wrong. You can check on the cms calculator.

I will because i earn more

I don’t think that matters. Cms doesn’t take account mums earning at all.like I said look at cms website.

Hi OP. I’m sorry that you’re both in this situation. She sounds completely paralysed by the thought of moving forward. The thought of trying to sort out the issues so you can stay together is paralysing, as is the thought of pushing forward with the divorce. I can understand your frustration, especially as you seem to approach these things very differently.

I have a couple of friends like your wife. They are very unhappy with their lot but also seem unwilling to do anything to change things, whatever is suggested. It’s a form of self-sabotage. Their identity has got caught up with their situation and somehow they mentally can’t be proactive to do something to help because they are afraid of the change and what that means for them as a person. It often stems from a poor childhood and low self esteem. There’s a cognitive dissonance between the beliefs they have about themselves (‘you won’t amount to much’, ‘ you’re no good at x, y, z’) and the fact that changes will mean proving that’s not true at all. It must be a very scary place for her to be.

I’m no expert, but I understand that therapy is the way forward. I know you’ve said she won’t book it (probably because she can’t cope with what might result from that…) so maybe a conversation would be good. Something along the lines of ‘I think you’re actively blocking solutions because you are subconsciously afraid of having to change your mind about yourself but I think you’re great and I want to help.’ How about offering to sit with her whilst she books the therapy (if she is willing) and reassuring her that you know it’s hard to get over this hurdle but hopefully it will help her to deal with the overthinking and mental pressure she’s under. Her mind must be in a constant whirl as she tries to calm all the conflicting thoughts and needs.

I really hope you manage to get there as a couple - it doesn’t seem that all is lost yet….

Could I ask how old your DC are? You sound fairly confident that wrap around and holidays clubs will be enough and IME it is often not the case, they are cancelled at short notice, hours cut etc. The holiday club near us that did wrap around closed last week so now everyone is fighting for places at the clubs that run 9.30-3.

Interesting you mentioned ADHD, my partner tried to use that as an excuse for her cheating. It’s the new get out of jail free card for these types.

How about offering to sit with her whilst she books the therapy (if she is willing) and reassuring her that you know it’s hard to get over this hurdle but hopefully it will help her to deal with the overthinking and mental pressure she’s under.

Then he'll just be accused of being controlling again. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Yes, absolutely agree that this is a likely risk, and I’m very sympathetic to the OP’s situation. It’s hard to know what else to suggest in order to break the cycle of ‘I’m not happy and want out - I won’t do anything to precipitate the getting out - I will get upset if you precipitate anything - I’m still not happy’.

From what I’ve read, self sabotage seems to play a large part in it though and the main route out of that is therapy…..

This is very much the dilemma I'm in.

Part of me thinks sod it, get her to go however I need to because the ends might justify the means, but if I try forcing her I think she won't take it seriously and won't get what she needs from it.

This is of course on the assumption I'm even right about the cause being her own issues which can be worked on with therapy, rather than just her genuinely not being happy in the marriage.

Also what I think doesn't carry a great deal of weight with her, because she knows deep down I want the marriage and don't want to accept the fact that it isn't a loss of love.

I've done it, it just took the year. I'm now in a position to buy a home again after going back to work full time and making him split drop offs and pick ups 50-50. We weren't married, so none of the things I did for our family unit are accounted for formally.

Love this! Good on you! :) (the bit that you're recovering financially, I mean)