Wife says her feelings have gone but will not move out

[LuckyPeachTraybake]

Hello

I'm new here and trying to work out what is going on with my marriage and what, if I anything I can do to help it.

I'll try and explain as best I can sorry in advance if it gets waffley.

Me (40) and wife (35) have been together 15 years, two kids in school.

We've been really happy and most people would say we're great together, until a few years ago when a friend told me she'd been messaging another guy, but that it had stopped and that's all it was.

I went home and very calmly confronted her about it. She denied it at first but when I told her I'd seen the messages (I hadnt) she came clean and admitted it.

She seemed genuinely remorseful and there probably was some distance in our relationship I hadn't realised due to busy lives with kids etc.

I always had her down as a loyal person with good morals so this did shock me a bit but as far as I'm aware it wasn't much of an emotional affair, more her entertaining attention from this other guy and she broke it off before anything happened.

I forgave her anyway and it did bring us closer together for a bit.

About 8 months ago, her family found out about this and were incredibly disappointed in her, I told them I knew, it was ages ago and I'd forgiven her but she broke down and said she was very unhappy in the marriage.

We talked and she said she felt I was controlling and she felt suffocated. Since the messaging thing I probably was a bit which manifested in me asking where she was, where she was going, who she was messaging etc. I'd never stop her doing anything or going anywhere but maybe she had a point, so I owned that.

Historically I'd always been the organised one and the provider, she didn't pay for anything or sort bills etc and we seemed to work quite well that way with her working part time and being more hands on with the kids.

She recently got a new job that she sees as her career and said she wanted more financial independence and resented the fact that I controlled the finances and sorted everything for her. Ironically I resented her because I took on all the stress and paid for everything and didn't feel appreciated so now she's sorting her own things on her own and that seems to be working much better (for me at least) I'm now doing much more with the kids where I can (drop offs, clubs, pick ups etc) because I've got flexibility at work to do it now.

She said that her feelings changing started before the messaging thing when we moved house and I was working on extending it, and busy with work and she was pregnant with our youngest.

She told me that basically her romantic feelings for me are dead, but that she still loves me. She said its not a physical thing but it's that she feels she has a wall up.

We said we'd try to make it work and things seemed OK the next couple of months if a little awkward but Christmas time we had an argument and she told me she wants a divorce.

She said she feels a lot of pressure and that she feels responsible for my emotions and feelings and it's exhausting.

Her family got involved again as they don't want us to split up and said we should have a break (not seeing other people, just living apart for a month) which we did.

During the break I decided to focus on myself and try not to communicate with her and respect her space. I read a lot and tried to understand myself better.

Since then I've been carrying this on and I can see what she means about my emotions. I didn't do much that didn't involve work, her or the kids so my happiness was probably quite closely linked to hers.

Now I'm into running, see much more of my mates, have got back into my hobbies.

I'm also much better at identifying my emotions and processing them rather than reacting to my feelings so I'm generally pretty calm and steady and would say I'm happy outside the relationship, so in this respect the whole thing has been really good for me.

She on the other hand didn't really leave me alone during the break, text or called every day wanting to do know how I was, what I was doing etc.

We agreed to try after the break, slowly.

Since then nothings really improved, if anything it feels like we're becoming more distant.

Over the whole period she's lost a lot of weight (unintentionally that she didn't need to lose) has withdrawn from all her friends and family. The only thing she seems to be happy about is her job. Although it does seem to be a big stressor of hers because when she's off in the school holidays she seems happier.

She says she still has no feelings for me but I don't think this is true.

She still confides in me, I'm pretty sure I'm the only person she talks to about her problems etc (mainly her relationship with her mum who is very controlling and tbh not that nice or supportive towards her which is a huge issue of its own)

If I go out she wants to know who with, where etc and makes jokes about me having an affair or going out on dates (I'm not btw)

I sat her down a few weeks ago and said that I love her, I want to be with her but I also want to be with someone who wants me and I want to feel some sort of affection and desire, so that whilst I would wait, I wouldn't wait for ever unless I could see something changing.

She said she didn't think it would change so we agreed to separate.

There was a lot of crying etc but we talked about splitting up and how it would work, what to do with kids, house etc (I stay and buy her out, she would move out and rent)

We agreed a period of 2-3 months for her to move out and that we wouldn't tell people or see other people while we are living together.

Since then I've asked her once if she's looked at houses and it seemed to really upset her.

Things do feel a bit different now, like the pressure has lifted and we're getting on a bit better.

We still sleep in the same bed, still go on the odd day out and eat together etc but we're not having any physical contact at all.

She doesn't seem very keen to progress with separating at all.

During the conversation we had about separating she got very upset when I mentioned the future and us both having other partners, she suggested that I seem very eager to move on and that that isn't even on her radar and isn't even something she's thinking about. She seemed to get a bit upset/aggressive/accusations that ill be planning moving on quickly.

It's worth mentioning when we got together she was very insecure, she's not had a great childhood and has had a couple of shitty relationships before ours. We had a tough first few months because of this but after she realised I wasn't an asshole that would cheat on her or abandon her she seemed to relax a bit.

She doesn't like talking about feelings etc, she did one session of marriage counselling with me and won't do any more. She won't go to the doctor, or really listen to anyone, she's just dead set on following how she feels.

It might sounds like im trying to avoid admitting my failings as a husband but I can't help feel that there is something else going on with her, she doesn't seem herself. I suggested she should have her hormones tested which went down like a fart in a space suit as I'm sure you can imagine.

It feels a bit like an identity crisis, I'd describe a lot of her behaviour as a bit entitled.

I also think she's really struggling with the shame from the messaging thing and people knowing about it. It's like she's built this narrative that she's only done it because she's in such an awful marriage and everything is being screened through that so i cant seem to do right for doing wrong. I even mentioned this to her and she acknowledged she could be doing that without realising.

I don't think it's an affair, she doesn't seem to want time alone when I offer it and it's not like her attention seems elsewhere. I genuinely belive it's time on her own burying her head in the sand that she wants.

I came on here to try and get a woman's perspective (maybe someone here has gone through something similar).

I've told a couple of my close and trusted mates and their advice varied from "She sounds mental, you should just have an affair" to "just stay with her and ride it out for the kids"

At the moment I'm just sitting here and waiting. Doesn't feel like I can do much else and on the whole apart from missing affection or feeling desired I'm fairly happy and to be honest if it doesn't work, I'm ok with divorce too (at 40 I figure I have plenty of time to start my life over and I'd rather it happen now then when I'm 50), if anything I'm more worried about her as I think she will struggle more than me, as does her family who are pretty worried about how she'll cope.

It's very much a battle of trying for her and the kids and not compromising my own self respect too much. It's obviously incredibly difficult for her too and I'm not even sure if the kind thing is for me to leave and make the decision for her,

I feel like I've done that already but it doesnt seem to be what she really wants.

If it is an identity crisis of some sort then maybe just staying kind and waiting while she gets it out of her system is all I need to do but it's starting to feel increasingly like I'm wasting my life a bit.

I don't believe marriage is meant to be easy but I think because my parents divorced when I was 10 I don't really have much of a reference point to know how hard it's meant to get.

Sorry I've rambled but any advice would be appreciated :)

I read a bit about attachment styles and I think she's an anxious avoidant, which does fit the pattern you mention.

I've learned how it works and if I wanted her attention I could have it by being a bit quieter or reserved around her. It's not genuine though and just feels like game playing which isn't what I want from a marriage.

She avoids dealing with anything but I don't think she's been intentionally cruel, I think she really doesn't know how she feels.

Now that I've told her we're divorcing and she actually believes it she seems to be making a bit more effort but again that's not sustainable long term.

She told me numerous times that she wants the romantic feelings to come back. I said I don't think they will come back just sitting around waiting so we need build a bit more of a connection to facilitate but she won't even let me take her out for the the day for fear of getting my hopes up (her words)

It's exhausting, I haven't slept properly in 8 months now.

My feelings have maybe started fading a bit. To be honest I wish they were gone altogether because it would make the whole thing a lot easier.

'She can have half of it, I'm happy with that if we keep our own savings and debts etc. I think that's fair given that I funded the deposit with the sale of my first house (bought on my own before we were married).'

OK, not a SAHM she worked part time in a job rather than a career, whereas you have got to the point in your career where you can say 'I can always earn more money' and she can't afford the mortgage to the family home. Can you not see the inequality here?

You settled into traditional roles, her looking after DCs and you being the 'provider' and sorting out finances. So it is important to know what debts and what savings you have. Why is there debt? Why do you have your own savings and debts if you were managing both? She has done her part with the DCs but did you do your part in a way that is fair to your family?

Your name is on the mortgage, therefore no matter who lives in it, you are responsible for it. Your wife is also responsible so ofc she isnt taking on a rental right now! You'll be surprised what the courts may order you to do. I hope your wife finds her anger soon at gets an absolute rottweiler of a solicitor.

Making her out to be crazy and using her family trauma is the oldest trick in the book.

That's absolute nonsense. You've no idea how much the house is worth and what she earns. Even if a divorce is amicable and each walk away with what they are due, she still may not be able to walk away and afford the mortgage repayments and that's not the ops fault. That's what happens in divorce and it's her who instigated it. She's the one who was messaging someone else. She's the one who's changed, so stop defending her just because she's a woman and the op is man.

'Now I'm into running, see much more of my mates, have got back into my hobbies.
I'm also much better at identifying my emotions and processing them rather than reacting to my feelings so I'm generally pretty calm and steady and would say I'm happy outside the relationship, so in this respect the whole thing has been really good for me.'

This is also very interesting. How have you been reacting to your feelings for the last 15 years of the marriage? You have discussed your wife's flirting in lots of detail but let's talk about this if you truly want a woman's perspective.

I can only imagine you've had a bitter divorce or similar as it's interesting that you'd rather my wife get an aggressive solicitor and piss away our assets on legal fees and court costs rather than arrive at a solution we're both happy with, without falling out, and then being able to co parent together without conflict.

This is pretty much the case. She can't afford the house alone, I know it, she knows it but we both want the kids to have the benefit of it, so me keeping it seems to be the best option at the moment.

Over time my emotions became very reliant on hers. If she was in a bad mood I'd take it personally, try to fix it. If she was in a bad mood I'd feel down.

Likewise, I found the only times I'd be happy was when she was, which in fairness for about 12 years seemed to work.

I can see it's my own insecurity that allowed this dynamic and it must have been emotionally taxing for her.

Now, if she's upset she's upset, I'll listen to her, let her vent, empathise with her and go about my day.

I'm not saying I'm totally secure now but I'm getting there which I think it how I've managed to get the point of being able to walk away from if I have to rather than letting this go on indefinitely.

I was the child in this situation and yes I do think it's better when one party stands to lose so much more than the other to go to court and have everything out on the table so to speak. Funnily enough once the court went through my father's savings they found my mother could afford keep the family home which was the best solution for the children. My mum had to buy my dad out when we reached a certain age but by that point she was able to do so.

The messaging at this point is a red herring. Just because she accepted a bit of flirtation doesn't mean she deserves to be punished financially that her contribution to the marriage no longer matters. We only have OP's side of the story but there are clues as to his behaviour in his words. A nice man doesn't leave his wife in debt while he has savings.

Every time OP posts to assert how he's so reasonable, he inadvertently shows the complete opposite.

He doesn’t show anything like the COMPLETE opposite. Why must everybody be separated into “goodies” and “baddies” with no room for nuance?

Sorry to here about your situation. When my parents split up, my dad (who admittedly wasn't the best father or husband) lost his marbles, tried to kill himself and his business went under so by the time it was done there wasnt anything left to split. I left my family

Just to ad context the debts sit with md there is bout £10k credit card debt at 0% so doesn't make sense using savings @4% interest to clear it.

There is another £2k-£5k on another card I clear in full every month (which covers general living costs outside of the mortgage and utilities) She did have a card on this account but gave it back when she decided she wanted more financial independence and to pay her own way.

I'm not burned by the messaging, it isnt great but I don't think there was much in it but I mentioned it, as for me it marks the point where it all started to go wrong, more specifically after her family found out about it.

Savings?

you sound really reasonable about a lot of this stuff but I think your tendency to get, or at least come across as, a bit flippant is winding some people up. That last line about financial abuse is not on. I know you’ve said it ironically because you were accused of financial abuse by the other poster, and indeed apologized if you’d been triggering (again I think the quote marks maybe came across a bit flippant) but it does not land well.

I think it’s the same with the references to your balls/sexual needs and your partners breasts as tits hanging out. You may think this is a lighthearted expression of needs or reflection of your feelings, but please try to be aware of the space you’re in and be the bigger person in terms of not re-escalating when you’re somewhere where issues you’re making light of are disproportionately affecting many of the women you’re seeking advice from in comparison to yourself.

Wishing all of you guys and especially the kids the happiest possible resolution from all this :)

That's fair and to be honest it's just my sense of humour, I perhaps didnt think about those going through genuine issues like this, will do so moving forward.

Thanks for this :) take care!

Apart from what's in the kids accounts they'll be gone if I clear the debts and pay the legal fees (even going joint rather than court).

My original plan was to cover these costs myself and keep the debts, using the savings to pay some of her half and reduce the amount I'd need to add to the mortgage.

I wanted to keep my pension in lieu of the deposit (which I paid before we were married) but if she wants half of that then its ok. I can stop paying in now and start another once we're legally separated.

I was going to continue covering the kids direct costs (clothes, clubs etc) but it may be better this is formalised as maintenance, my concern here is the money won't all be spent on the kids but we'll seek advice on that.

I can't see how spending tens of thousands on court costs, causing delays, arguments and probably more long term resentment and ill feeling helps any of us, although I'm sure you'll disagree.

We'll both have different lives and lifestyles after the divorce. I guess that's one of the costs of it.

Your financial situation doesn't sound straightforward enough to be settled fully out of court to be honest. Especially as it seems you are both holding your ground about remaining in the family home. The court will also look at the debt and decide who benefited the most from it when deciding who is liable to pay it.

There is a lot of talk of me, my and mine but your savings, pensions and deposit are all marital assets, so you aren't covering anything as it is her money too. Unless you can see the assets as joint and not something you are 'graciously' allowing her to have, your divorce is not going to be amicable or cheap.

WRT to maintenance, if the kids are cared for, why do you expect to know what she spends it on? You've predominantly left the child rearing to her and focused on work, what reason has she given you to suspect that she won't spend the money on them?Why do you want her to come cap in hand to you?

I am glad that she has started to claw back her career and independence, now she needs to lawyer up and ditch her dreadful family.

Your (I assume unqualified/unprofessional) view on our situation isn't really much use and isn't why I started the thread.

On the basis you seem to be consistently making incorrect assumptions about me, my wife and our relationship and don't seem to be posting anything helpful, or even factually accurate I'll most probably (respectfully) be ignoring the rest of your posts.

All the best.

I'm not really sure why you started the thread either to be honest. Coming onto a site predominantly used by mothers looking for advice on how to chuck your wife out of the family home was never going to go down well was it?

All the best to your wife and kids.

That's another incorrect assumption, (although admittedly the auto generated post thread title hasn't helped)

I thought it was clear in the OP that I wanted to understand what my wife may be experiencing and if there is any way of saving the marriage. My experience in dealing with women (this one in particular) is you can't just ask them whats wrong and get an answer and it feels to me her behaviour doesn't seem to match her words.

I thought there might be other women who've felt how she has, or been through similar. I've never birthed a child, had a period, or hormone imbalance, nor do I think like a woman so as you can probably tell I'm at a loss and this has definitely been a last resort.

There have been some really useful posts Im grateful for, which seem to have focused on this, rather the ins and outs of our financial situation.

If I wanted advice on how to boot her out as cost effectively as possible I'd have posted on a forum for men.

Be very careful about throwing out statements on whether your wife will spend maintenance on your children, especially whilst saying you wish to remain amicable. Also, if she needs to work full time then your childcare costs will rise. Last year, my ex paid his obligatory child maintenance. Meanwhile, I qualified for zero support because we'd split our equity and I no longer had that wrapped up in a home, whilst I was still enabling his career by covering all pick ups, drop offs, appointments, extra curricular activities and holiday care. He felt he was being fair by paying child maintenance and I'd need to pay rent or a mortgage anyway if I didn't have children, but it cost me a phenomenal amount to pause my career, rent, pay bills and cover everything else, and his maintenance honestly didn't even cover my groceries. His attitude caused me to think a lot less of him, especially because he had no concept that me taking maternity leaves and working part time had impacted my career and my pension, so I was already financially worse off. Don't be that guy.

Thanks for the tip, I'll keep my concerns to myself.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, i suspect your husband probably thinks it is fair and whats fair is probably something you won't agree on. I dont know the ins and outs enough to comment otherwise and you haven't asked me to anyway.

I daresay you will both be worse off after divorce, that's one of the pitfalls, I just hope you're both happier.

"I was still enabling his career by covering all pick ups, drop offs, appointments, extra curricular activities and holiday care."

This is how men continue to exploit their ex-wives in divorce. They set themselves up careerwise at the expense of their wife's time and domestic and mental labour during the marriage and seem to think - if they think about it at all - that it was her choice to support his career and she did it out of luuurve, rather than out of commitment to a shared future, the idea that the marriage would be mutually advantageous, and because of the powerful social expectations laid on women to sacrifice themselves for others.

Women need to become just as transactional as men are, otherwise this generational inequity will continue to impoverish women and their children.

@Madreamigajefa2 Can you take your ex back to court to ensure that he takes on 50% of all this child care so that you can get out from under the motherhood tax and rebuild a solid financial base for yourself?

I had tears from her when i got home day before yesterday because her mum had upset her again.

She was inconsolable saying she felt so alone, that noone cares about her, she said shes shut herself away from everyone, her family hate her and the one friend she talked to about it has been telling everyone. She said she has her work mates but that's fake because they don't really know anything about it.

I asked if she wanted a hug and gave her one, I said I care about her. She said "yeah but not much longer" I said "ill always care about you" then just sat with her until she calmed down.

She perked up a bit later and it was happy families again then. She asked about this call I'd booked and I answered her questions and seemed a bit sad / glum about it.

We had the joint call yesterday and she didn't say anything, just sat there with her head in her hands.

I asked afterwards if she was happy to go with it and she said "I don't know"

I said she's going to have to do something soon because I can't do the divorce on my own so whatever happens it will need her input at some point. I said it was her who said she wanted this in the first place, despite it not being what I want I'm the one who's had to arrange it, make calls etc and the least she could do is help me.

She asked for more time, I said no its been 9 months. She said she can't process things right away and her brain needs time to process (which in fairness fits a pattern ive noticed) She said its easy for me because once I get stuck into something I get on with it but she doesn't work that way.

We both agreed it isn't what we want. She said its a huge decision and she doesn't want regrets. I said I won't have any whatever happens, because I've tried everything and given it 9 months. I said I know it's hard on her but I don't feel she has tried much at all, just avoided dealing with anything hoping that her feelings would change, which is pointless. I said I don't deserve this and she agreed (last time I said this she got on the defensive)

We both said we love each other. I said fine well talk tomorrow night but unless there is action I file it Friday. She said by action did I mean therapy, I said action means anything, therapy, booking a doctors appointment, letting me take her on a date, anything other than burying her head in the sand.

I said if I file Friday I'm going to stop hiding it from people too because I'm sick of living a lie and this fake life and this really seemed to bother her (makes me think her appearance / pride / what people think is clearly more important to her than me or this relationship)

I went out with my mates and when i got back we had a laugh together and chatted about a few things (including one of my mates sisters going through a divorce after having an affair)

When she got into bed I said we'll talk tomorrow night after the kids are in bed and she said "maybe"

I said if we don't talk I'm going to put in Friday, then she got snappy and said "fine we will talk tomorrow"

I'm back to sleepless nights again. I don't know what is going on.

I don't want to get divorced at all, obviously I still love her, so it doesn't feel very fair to me that even with me doing all the heavy lifting etc she still won't even help move the process along.

I get its hard for her, I know she's scared but I've never heard of anything like this before. It's like avoidance to the extreme and I'm lying here at 4am, probably now just as worried about how long this process could take more than the thought of the divorce itself.

I also don't know if she's genuinely conflicted, or is just comfortable as she is and dragging it out because she can (and im letting her), despite how much it's beginning to affect me.

At least part of me thinks she's more worried about what people think of her than the situation itself.

On the other hand, it does feel a bit like she's heading towards some sort of mental breakdown/depression and I don't want to tip her over the edge.

If you call these happy years your clearly happy to have your head in the clouds because theres nothing consistently happy about it...