Men/marriage in midlife - does it get better?

[fleurblu]

I have a handful of very close female friends, we are all late 40s/early 50s. Pretty much everyone seems to be experiencing issues in their relationships, myself included. Various stresses play a factor at this age of course - ageing or dying parents/challenging teens/financial strain etc - but broadly, we are all privileged people, not facing the serious problems that affect so many (poverty, war zones etc). And yet, no-one seems happy.

YES, people are going to say that menopause and perimenopause is the common denominator….but I know myself and these women, and another common denominator is this - the men who get to this age and seem to become difficult to live with.

There is so much grumpiness, irritability and unreasonable behaviour from the men. These are couples I know well - and while no-one is perfect, me and my friends are calm, straightforward and reasonable. We communicate like adults. Without fail, it’s us carrying the majority of the emotional load in our families - and often the domestic load too. Whereas the men seem to be having the midlife crises - if not affairs and sports cars, they’re behaving like petulant teenagers a lot of the time, questioning their life choices - ‘I hate my job and want to run away and live off grid’ kind of vibes. A lot of wanting to do things for themselves - hobbies/trips that take them away from home life. Flying off the handle over small things. Moodiness.

I get it - this age brings challenges. But it’s like a lot of these men hit 48 and suddenly thought ‘right, I’ve had enough of being nice’. People might argue that maybe women have their eyes truly opened as we enter menopause as all our tolerance/nurturing-causing hormones begin to decline, and we see the true side of our partners….

But from what I see, in my own relationship and others, it’s not us. It’s them.

I know so many women who are all saying the same things - anyone else? And do we think it gets better?!

Omg is this what it is?? I am 37 and DP is 48, and he is so grumpy and irritable. I'm constantly on eggshells and I'm scared to say anything to him sometimes in case it's the wrong thing. It's bad enough I've considered leaving. Does it get better? Does this male menopause ever end?

My point is that the same language is used about middle-aged women and middle-aged men - less tolerant of other people, had enough of being nice etc. But this is only shitty behaviour by the men? The peri threads here contain vast amounts of misanthropy and nastiness from women (and not just aimed at men by any means - very much aimed at other women too, or even just the general public).

I don't think you're describing an exclusively male phenomenon, is my point.

"But it’s the men who are behaving in a shitty way"
you cannot be this blind @fleurblu . honestly. always. we have never seen an impossible to please nightmare of a wife before. there are no nightmare mother in laws, sister in laws who know no boundaries. female coworkers who backstab you and fellow mums at school who gossip behind people's back. loh yes no cheating housewives and self entitled karens who make it hell come across them. or the hottempered entitled ones who happily hit their men because they are only women and the men are not allowed to hit back. I am sure it's somehow their male family members fault too. how the hell can you say something that is just removes the possibility that it can be us too. shit men and shit women all around.and these were just extreme examples. we all have better days and worse days when we are more snappy when we shouldn't have. or done something we just cant see. yes it is you too. and me.

Every group of women I go out with in their 50s complains that men turn into grumpy fuckers

and for all of you who read the original post like some astrology forum and go oh that is sooo me: does it get any better? no it doesn't. not unless you do something about it. like try to talk to them or leave. simple.

Anecdotally quite a few friends husbands have withdrawn and become quite grumpy gits fifties onwards. They don’t mention it really and just carry on their own lives. Think it’s definitely a widespread phenomenon.

Not sure why noticing this requires posts slagging off women for balance 🙄. There are plenty of sites in the internet that do that or actually the whole sodding internet except Mumsnet 🙄🙄

so when its about men it is just politely 'noticing'. but when it is about us it is mean and 'slagging off'.
nobody is slagging anyone off. the point is that we are all flawed. we happily point at the men saying they are grumpy gits but are too self-absorbed to realise that we are not easier either. the complete lack of seeing the possibility of it is just staggering to me. so what a lot of you on this thread are saying - I am not annoying because I dont annoy myself - or my friends I go out to have coffee with. my husband is annoying because he annoys me. you see nothing illogical in there? at all? here is a shocker: all those grumpy gits wont be annoyed by themselves but will be by you. I know it is revolutionary to think about. it is embarrassing when someone didn't outgrow the I am the perfect princess phase

I think men and women are both going through biological changes around 50. Most will have grown or nearly grown children so maintaining the ‘nest’ is no longer a consideration in the way it was when children were small. People want to follow their own paths again after years of giving to others. I also think most of us are ready to reduce working hours about now unless you absolutely love your job and it is your dream. For those of us in mundane work you definitely feel ready to retire around 50 and do things you choose to do even if you can’t.

so my take on it is.... yes menopausal symptoms can be debilitating even on HRT ,but what comes with this is that your fed up with taking the load of the household & you've woken up to being put upon. They moan on & are quite frankly boring the pants off us. They literally are working & doing nothing else!! I realise this is not all men, just a lot of them.

There is logic in that. In theory we only need a partner whilst actually procreating and raising young.

You are spot on with the resentment issue. It’s not really a gender thing.
Resentment is a huge relationship killer which builds over time because issues get swept under the carpet and potential conflict avoided.
Couples then quietly adapt to the new status quo “Well, I don’t really like it but I’ll have to try to put up with it” to avoid tacking a difficult issues.
It never gets discussed again until it blows up, usually when another issue becomes the catalyst for a row where the Big Book Of Grievances suddenly gets produced and slammed onto the table. The conversation is then full of “And another thing…!” and “You always do that when…” and “Just like the time when…” and “That old chestnut!” gets trotted out, accompanied by eye rolls.
Over time the resentment festers and if it remains internalised, causes a disconnect and a gradual leading of separate lives within the relationship.
Honesty and communication: two simple words, seems so easy to do, but habitual rug-sweeping and ‘keeping the peace’ breaks both down, sometimes irreparably and relationships die without them.
When one or the other partner needs an excuse to give themselves permission to do something they feel guilty about: dump their responsibilities and run away from them / cheat/ pursue a new hobby all hours of the day…….. that Big Book of Grievances will get quoted as the justifications for it, and by then, resentment will be so intense that the original problems will have been magnified a hundred times over, new fictitious ones added and can lead to an astonishing rewrite of history.
Both men and women on here who start threads with “I’m probably going to get flamed for this” usually start the first couple of paragraphs with a comprehensive list about their partners’ bad points from their Big Book, which they think mitigates the bad choices they’ve made.
Resentment is really good at turning into justifications for our own poor behaviour. It never is, because honesty and boundaries should prevent it ever building up.
I think the age being discussed means the relationship is often 10 - 20 years old.
As life gets harder in a relationship, which used to be the two of you with all the time in the world for each other, maintaining that relationship can take a back seat to responsibilities. Because you were ok for so long, you think it will always be there to pick up when life gets easier again. It might not be. Maintain it as much as you can.
With ageing parents who need time and care, raising kids, dealing with teenage kids, realising you’ll never become a helicopter pilot or manage Vogue, or whatever your dream was, and then simply just seeing yourself and your partner starting to age, plus navigating menopause (both partners, how men react is also key) you can start to feel tired and jaded if you’re not careful and “Is this it?”plus a slight panic sets in.
If you feel invisible and you feel like an extra in Groundhog Day, and you start to resent it, it’s far easier to blame your partner or relationship for it, whatever gender you are.
It’s just easier to project any general malaise you have developed internally, externally on your partner and relationship, than look inwards and realise your life is actually a series of choices and compromises that made and you accepted at the time.
Be honest, support each other, realise that marriages are the sum of the effort you both put into them and realise that relationships and love aren’t always rainbows and sunshine.
You earn your own happiness, it’s not an automatic right that you are owed just because you exist.

@fleurblu maybe men get a male menopause, and one of the sypmtoms is grumpiness and irritability. Just like women can have these symptoms with the menopause.

My theory is that the kind of middle-aged people (men and women) who get grumpy in this way are those who never shared many interests in the first place and only really got together because they wanted to have children, or a family. If children hadn't been on the table they wouldn't even have considered spending time with the other.

I know a lot of happy middle-aged and old couples and the common thread is that they have plenty of shared interests.

DP and I observe all the grumpy, mid-life crisis men and the angry menopausal women and treat them as cautionary tales. It's handy to know what you don't want to become.

I absolutely second this. My wife's friend recently asked her what the secret is behind our happy marriage, and I think her summary was spot-on: We really like each other as people, we would like to be in each others' company even if we weren't a couple, as friends. I think that is key, because at one point the pink clouds evaporate and the love you feel towards each other is constantly evolving, you need something honest to be there for it to work. We see so many grumpy or irritated couples out there, and chances are they never got to know each other before forming a unit. It doesn't mean you have to love exactly the same things and be interested in all the same things, but in general, most things should point towards the same direction.

One thing is for certain, though. We ALL go through changes, hormonal, physiological, mental... And anyone who happily points the finger at the other group as a whole without entertaining the possibility that it is happenign with themselves, too, well...That is just tunnel-vision. None of us are perfect, men or women.

Look at it from nature’s POV. Men and women get together to procreate & the challenges of raising children, especially in the early years require enough input and dedication from two devoted parents. This includes maintaining a stable and safe home environment for the children as they grow. There’s little time for personal independence or identity outside this job.

When the children grow and start gaining their own independence they become less reliant on the parents. The parents feel this shift and naturally begin to reevaluate their own positioning in the arrangement. They don’t both need to pull together as a team quite so much. There is more time for personal reflection. They begin to separately reassess what “meaning” is to them on an individual level.

As a result they may begin to spend less time with one another and do separate things that focus on their identities and aspirations. They may have a “wake up” moment where they blink, and look at their spouse for the first time in two decades. They may like what they see - they may not.

I think it’s quite a logical and entirely natural phenomenon

I agree OP - from speaking to my friends and acquaintances, men definitely seem to get grumpier and more unhappy with everything in life as they get older.

I can't actually be arsed to analyse their behaviour anymore - my days of trying to understand why males say and do what they do are long gone, there are more interesting things to be getting on with.

Your insinuation is that being child-free is "unnatural" but reading this it underlines that it's actually a cheat code to enjoying life. A feeling I often get reading MN.

Do many men get married because they want to have children? I'm in my 70's and when we married this was probably not the case for many and not the case for my DH - thought he was happy when it happened.

We get along perfectly well, though I know to avoid him when necessary (and presumably vice versa).

I'm not convinced that women can always avoid being angry and menopausal or men avoid being grumpy as time goes by, though you can control it to some extent.

Hormones affect so much of our lives. It’s as if the drive to procreate and keep a family together makes us insensible and as soon as the scales fall we wonder wth we were seeing previously. I’m not old enough for the menopause yet and do still like my DH to be fair but I’m undeniably getting older and looking at the men around me v differently and seeing the same story play out amongst other couples too.

Was just listening to Pink Floyd coincidentally and I think, in their words, what starts to happen is people ask themselves this:
”Did they get you to trade…..cold comfort for change? Did you exchange a walk-on part in a war, for a lead role in a cage?”

“And then one day you find….ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run….you missed the starting gun.”

I used to listen to this when I was 14 and now looking back , I see the wisdom in these lyrics. They meant little to me then with my whole life ahead of me.
Carpe diem and tempus fugit and all that stuff I guess.

I’m in my sixties and we didn’t get married automatically knowing we were going to have any children. The expectation that we were was universal though.
We actually had children quite late on, when most people, especially family, had given up us ever having any.
So many people in the first few years of our marriage actually asked us when we were going to have children and why we hadn’t had any yet! We were in our mid-late twenties back then.
Even people whom I’d just met would ask this, after they asked how long I’d been married. None of their bloody business. Used to irritate the heck out of me.

I suppose it is quite common, the midlife crisis has been a cliche for years.

It's not my personal experience though. I'm 47 and DH is 51. Our marriage is better than it's ever been. Our sex life has fallen off a cliff because of peri, but other than that we're probably as lovey dovey as we were in the early days.

Yes, I remember that well. I didn't really mind because I was expecting to have children eventually, but my DH hadn't really considered the possibility of it happening at all. We married each other, not with any thought of children in mind.

Eye opening thread. Dh and I get in well, enjoy each others company, etc. But I have definitely noticed that grumpiness creeping in. It’s like he has to look for the dark side in everything.

My dm used to remark on how she was looking forward to getting older because anytime she saw a group of older women out they were invariably laughing and having a great time. She figured it was because life gets easier for women as they age, while men who took all their advantages early (and often off the back of women) found old age hard as their social influence waned and their bodies declined.

I’ve seen that trend too though I thought it was a post 60s shift, but maybe actually it just has become unavoidably obvious by then. I find myself teasing dh more and more about turning into a grumpy old man. Sigh.

I’ve also long noticed, since my dm was first pointing out the merry old ladies, how much happier the unattached women were than the still married ones.

I’m finding a lot of these responses really insightful and interesting, particularly those around the dynamics that often occur within long term relationships.

Again to those who are saying ‘yes but women become less tolerant and in midlife too’ - yes that is often the case. But what I see among my group of friends (and within my own marriage) is that women are discussing how they feel about ageing and change. They are doing things to help themselves. They are taking HRT. They are having therapy. They are, yes, challenging their partners when their behaviour is a problem - as they should! They are carrying much of the emotional load within their families, and trying to raise their kids in calm, happy environments.

But the men don’t seem to be helping themselves like this. They take out their stresses on their wives and kids. They are snappy and irritable in ways that they weren’t a decade ago. They are often a bit disconnected from their own kids. My DH is a loving father, but I am, without question, more involved in the kids’ lives on many levels.

It’s what I observe and given many of the responses on here, me and my friends are not alone.

So, to those who did come out the other side - does it get better? What helped?