Men/marriage in midlife - does it get better?

[fleurblu]

I have a handful of very close female friends, we are all late 40s/early 50s. Pretty much everyone seems to be experiencing issues in their relationships, myself included. Various stresses play a factor at this age of course - ageing or dying parents/challenging teens/financial strain etc - but broadly, we are all privileged people, not facing the serious problems that affect so many (poverty, war zones etc). And yet, no-one seems happy.

YES, people are going to say that menopause and perimenopause is the common denominator….but I know myself and these women, and another common denominator is this - the men who get to this age and seem to become difficult to live with.

There is so much grumpiness, irritability and unreasonable behaviour from the men. These are couples I know well - and while no-one is perfect, me and my friends are calm, straightforward and reasonable. We communicate like adults. Without fail, it’s us carrying the majority of the emotional load in our families - and often the domestic load too. Whereas the men seem to be having the midlife crises - if not affairs and sports cars, they’re behaving like petulant teenagers a lot of the time, questioning their life choices - ‘I hate my job and want to run away and live off grid’ kind of vibes. A lot of wanting to do things for themselves - hobbies/trips that take them away from home life. Flying off the handle over small things. Moodiness.

I get it - this age brings challenges. But it’s like a lot of these men hit 48 and suddenly thought ‘right, I’ve had enough of being nice’. People might argue that maybe women have their eyes truly opened as we enter menopause as all our tolerance/nurturing-causing hormones begin to decline, and we see the true side of our partners….

But from what I see, in my own relationship and others, it’s not us. It’s them.

I know so many women who are all saying the same things - anyone else? And do we think it gets better?!

I'm fighting the urge to become a grumpy old man. I do have my usual chair in the lounge though.

I got fired from a senior job last year, and now have no management responsibilities in my new lower paid job.

Life changing reduction in stress.. which almost makes up for the loss in money.

Sleep like a baby for the first time in decades.

Empty nest now.

I look forward to holidays - and covering the work while I'm not there is not my problem.

I do need to be more active, in fact we both do. Too many times we are pottering to bed around 9:30

It may be that women are less inclined to put up with shit in menopause but I’m mid 40’s and don’t have any peri symptoms yet so that doesn’t apply to me. What I do have is a hell of a lot of life experience, the ability to pay my own bills and make my own life choices and a low tolerance for idiots.
So I left a grumpy, miserable mid 40’s man who didn’t take any action to improve his life and took it out on me.
There are very valid challenges for men as PP’s have said around testosterone levels but also hair loss and self image, mental health and ageing parents. But hitting out at people who care and could work a way through them together isn’t a good response.
I did notice when I was out with a big group of friends last night the couples around 50 were happy and positive but those a few years older had fun capable wives and the men were truly miserable.
There is something in this but not for everyone. I have good male friends who haven’t turned into whingeing teenagers, but they’re the ones who’ve been decent men all along.

questioning their life choices - ‘I hate my job and want to run away and live off grid’ kind of vibes. A lot of wanting to do things for themselves - hobbies/trips that take them away from home life

If a middle aged woman were to express these feelings, MN would be all "you go girl! Put yourself first and follow you're dreams. And go on HRT."

MN generally hates men.

Usually as a direct result of experience of them.

Low opinion of other women? Literally no idea how you came to that conclusion .

To preface, everyone is different.
I can't say I'm experiencing these issues at 47.
Agree to the privilege making a difference, of which I got plenty. (Never needed to work, child free, each have own assets, too).
My husband is significantly older and reasonably joyful to live with.
Edited for typo.

It was mainly the “no longer blinded by the hormonal drive to breed” that did it.

DO is 60 and can be a bit grumpy sometimes but he’s pretty self aware and either course corrects himself or an abrupt response from me does the trick if all else fails.

I think some men (my man) want something to enjoy and want to centre more of life around their fun pursuits and are losing patience, after decades of work, with everything being set up to extract work from them and often boring. I have mixed feelings about this because I kind of admire it at the same time as thinking it can be selfish and unrealistic.

I really like this stance (for balance). How can we expect men to be understanding and aaccommodating of menopause if we don’t try to at least understand changes that they inevitably experience too? I’ve often reflected on how long, hard and boring the world of work is for men, I think they deserve to have treats in life as well, and are entitled to negative feelings just as much as women!

One of the tropes I always enjoy on MN is contextual stereotyping.

Gather together all the threads about Mils and see what picture is painted of women, particularly older women. They are nightmares - interfering, undermining, overbearing, passive aggressive, dominating, bitter, irrational, living tiny unfulfilled lives enmeshed in their children etc etc.

Then of course you could read all the threads about the difficult mothers, and all manner of (ageist?) threads authored by women and detailing the varied and many failings of difficult older women they encounter.

But on a thread about older men, these women disappear like morning mist in the glare of the sun.

Suddenly these awful women, the inspiration for countless AIBU’s, are all replaced by straightforward, calm, loving women, wise, capable and fun women who have kept their good looks and zest for life, but are being dragged down by these awful miserable men they are married to.

What happened to all those other women, did they really disappear? Did they have personality transplants? What of their long suffering husbands who have to endure them?

Or is it actually that these women are one and the same, and that the accepted stereotype just changes depending on the topic at hand!

THIS. exactly how @GimmieABreakOr3 put it: "How can we expect men to be understanding and aaccommodating of menopause if we don’t try to at least understand changes that they inevitably experience too? "

Why are you assuming we are older women? I’m not sure about everyone else on this thread but I’m early 40’s. I’m uncertain of the point you are trying to make about stereotyping given your own assumption.

I think it's fair to say that for a huge number of women, myself included, during fertile years there is a huge hormonal drive to be a mother. I have no idea why you think that is derogatory? It's just a biological fact.

My post mentions the way women are presented on MN generally, and how that particularly relates to the presentation of older women, which can change dramatically depending on context.

Where in my post have I assumed “you” are older women?

(Didn’t mean to copy my own post!)

Can we just come back to the point of the thread rather than arguing with one another?

My husband is 37 and exactly like this. I wish I could get on a plane and live off grid rants. Flies off the handle at minor annoyances. No attempt to filter his mood or put on a smile

Strangely though you dont see men falling over themselves to stay home and care for their children --in their view " do nothing"
They cite " work" and they must be at work late to avoid putting their children to bed
They cant have it both ways

some do and some dont. I know quite a few who would rather stay home with he kids than go to work. Jesus it is the same as "you dont see women falling over themselves to be the main breadwinners and go to work instead of staying at home". and the same would apply there, some do and some dont.

I would most certainly fall over myself if I could be a stay-at-home dad. While it is a lot of work (I used to do it for a while the kids were teeny), if I look at the option of working hard at home around my own children, sorting our own house with our own food and laundry, or playing sardines on a train in the morning with other commuters and spending the day in some dumb office with people i dont want to be with (even if they are nice), working for the profit of a company...well, the choice is pretty clear to me.

My ex announced he wanted different things, we divorced. It’s really common as children reach adulthood. I’m remarried and life is great, they aren’t all the same.

I know a couple of men who were SAHDs and they did everything in the house and appointments for the children, etc while their wives worked because their wives were the higher earners.

My partner and his ex wife both worked but did alternating shifts so they never used child care.

He got home from work and she left half an hour later. He picked them up from school, cooked dinner, did home work, bathtimes, bedtime routines, and housework when they went to bed. She did the morning routine and daytime stuff.

He still manages to do his own laundry, half the cooking, pick up after himself, all the food shopping and half the housework now (and I've never even made him a list...)

We both know that’s not how you put it.

Why else mention the presentation of older women? You specifically said well here we are presenting as calm and capable compared to the MIL threads.

Come on, own your words.

Here we completely agree.

Im the main breadwinner, DH works part time after taking a career break to support our eldest through first year of school (our DD has some challenges).

People are complex. Some of the traits coming through now were not there in our first eight years together. I chose better than that.