Men/marriage in midlife - does it get better?

[fleurblu]

I have a handful of very close female friends, we are all late 40s/early 50s. Pretty much everyone seems to be experiencing issues in their relationships, myself included. Various stresses play a factor at this age of course - ageing or dying parents/challenging teens/financial strain etc - but broadly, we are all privileged people, not facing the serious problems that affect so many (poverty, war zones etc). And yet, no-one seems happy.

YES, people are going to say that menopause and perimenopause is the common denominator….but I know myself and these women, and another common denominator is this - the men who get to this age and seem to become difficult to live with.

There is so much grumpiness, irritability and unreasonable behaviour from the men. These are couples I know well - and while no-one is perfect, me and my friends are calm, straightforward and reasonable. We communicate like adults. Without fail, it’s us carrying the majority of the emotional load in our families - and often the domestic load too. Whereas the men seem to be having the midlife crises - if not affairs and sports cars, they’re behaving like petulant teenagers a lot of the time, questioning their life choices - ‘I hate my job and want to run away and live off grid’ kind of vibes. A lot of wanting to do things for themselves - hobbies/trips that take them away from home life. Flying off the handle over small things. Moodiness.

I get it - this age brings challenges. But it’s like a lot of these men hit 48 and suddenly thought ‘right, I’ve had enough of being nice’. People might argue that maybe women have their eyes truly opened as we enter menopause as all our tolerance/nurturing-causing hormones begin to decline, and we see the true side of our partners….

But from what I see, in my own relationship and others, it’s not us. It’s them.

I know so many women who are all saying the same things - anyone else? And do we think it gets better?!

This is absolutely my experience. I exercise, I try to eat well and cut down on alcohol. I have hobbies. I catch up with friends. Trying to ‘encourage’ DH to do any of these things is hard. To the point where I have left him to it and he is now overweight and spends a lot of time alone. Not surprising he is a grump most of the time.

Kids are growing up and need me less, I’m not able to take on a mothering role for/of him.

This is fascinating.

My partner and I have been together for about 5 years. He's 62 and I'm 51. I've known him since he was early 50s. He hasn't changed in attitude at all in that time and he's never grumpy and very 'youthful' (or I wouldn't he with him!) I've noticed that, over the year or so, he's slowed down a little but that suits me because health issues mean I'm less up for late nights out etc.

By my ex husband is a different story!

We separated in our late 30s for a variety of reasons. I could see the makings of a grumpy old man then but issues with my pparents and children meant I stayed. I knew I wasn't going to be there forever though.

But he's now turned into a reclusive misanthrope. He's been with his now wife for around 14 years and they married when he was 48 (she was 41).

And, tbh, I don't know how she puts up with him! Or why... she goes on holidays with her sister, nights out with her friends but unless it's a holiday he specifically wants to go on (long haul and expensive and ideally with a Disney theme park at the end of it) he rarely leaves the house! It would seem he spends most of his free time posting angry rants online and considering himself some sort of writer or social commentator.

She sounds so competent, capable and full of life (I don't know her, we've never been allowed to meet but I hear it from our adult children).

I sometimes wonder if she is actually happy with him!

Im a bit surprised by this. At 56 my DH has actually become more tolerant and sociable! Maybe because we had a different set up- he was in the forces for most of our relationship, which meant I did everything at home/ with the kids and animals, but I worked too. I started my own business 15 years ago, and we juggled it (with help from my dad) DH left the forces around 7 years ago, and has worked p/t in various jobs since. He now does almost all the housework and more than half the cooking. He goes to the gym most days and potters about in his workshop. He didnt really used to socialise, but now he is working locally he has made friends, and he goes out with them (they are bikers, so often days out on the bike) Sometimes we go out with them as a couple. Our dc are all away at uni, and I think this has made us closer. He was always grumpy with the kids when they were younger (mess, not eating their dinner etc) but now he has a great relationship with them as adults. We are both definitely grumpier, but we laugh about it. We love to moan and complain (roadworks, crap ads on tv, neighbours yappy dog) but we laugh at ourselves for doing so. There is no resentment, maybe because we both get to do our own things and always have done. Or maybe we're just lucky!

Moving on, dont feed it

@LadyLavenderUrchin - but in my first post, I mention how menopause and perimenopause can be a factor in how women feel. No-one is denying that. But it’s not like our oestrogen declines and suddenly we notice that our partners are being unreasonable. What I see instead is a change in a lot of men. They become more selfish and more irritable.

I’ve seen it with my own DH and within several other marriages. All different couples, different dynamics and challenges - but all the women are saying pretty much the same thing!

But it’s not like our oestrogen declines and suddenly we notice that our partners are being unreasonable.

I think that is exactly what happens for a lot of women, tbh.

Think of it as me being amused by your posts rather than not liking them.

I find you a bit pathetic. Women are sharing their stories of challenging relationships and you’re just gagging to blame them. I guess someone has to think about the poor men!

I’ll leave you and your “pick me” mentality to it.

I agree that there is a type of strange lack of responsibility
Women are bombarded with help yourself type messages regarding MH and menopause
Men are not and seem in many cases to completely lack the drive to make changes

It’s called manopause, I’ve just sent for a testosterone test for my 62 year old husband. I’m going through the menopause and take HRT to still give me a stable and fulfilling life, men don’t have anything. If he needs testosterone they’ll prescribe it for him, I’ve been on it for years, it gives me energy and returned my libido.

Like someone else mentioned on here, having friends is a big thing. My husband still plays squash and golf, he has loads of friends from these sports and that is really helpful and lifts him. I’m grateful for them and don’t mind him meeting up, it’s healthy for him.

My husband isn’t too bad with grumpiness, but he’s not the same. He’s so tired, hence my thinking about testosterone, fingers crossed, 🤪

My husband isn’t too bad with grumpiness, but he’s not the same. He’s so tired, hence my thinking about testosterone, fingers crossed

This is a perfect example of my last post
He is tired, you are searching for the cause

think about what you say. peri and meno can influence how we feel. and you just cant see a way of it influencing our behavior at all? it can influence our mood but it stops there. we cant be more irritable
and difficult. you honestly think that? even in cases that behavior contributing to him being frustrated? or no? these are just some examples. food for thought. but maybe consider that just because you dont see how you sre irritable you may still be regardless. it is just being aware that it is not all men vs all women but literally everyone.

Mine broke dramatically and had an enormous set of mental health issues - not an issue before. He was always very capable and loving and fun. He is still ill but stable a decade later. He is essentially still lovely but can find all sorts of ordinary things tough but he has few friends - his two best friends died and his remaining buddy is a woman. Even his casual say hello friends tend to be women. He hates men. He finds them sexist, boorish, horrid. He doesn’t forget the times a nice guy reveals his porn habit or his objectification of a colleague etc. There are the odd blokes he gets on with but it fascinates me how disappointing being a middle aged man has been while my life is full of capable happy women and a few blokes who are long term mates.

The ‘low testosterone’ factor - to those who’ve had partners who had it tested and/or treated, what happened?

The NHS website does explain the andropause but it seems to suggest that needing actual treatment (ie via an endocrinologist) is quite rare…

ew. you can find me pathetic all you want. i am not the one who married a dickhead but not leaving for whatever reason. my big crime is to suggest people consider the possibility of maybe not shifting 100% of the blame to others. that is all i am saying. but you do you. we are perfect the way we are

@LadyLavenderUrchin - ok here’s an example. Was away with a friend and her DH and kids - holiday cottage. She loads the dishwasher and he starts grumping at her that she’s loaded the dishwasher ‘incorrectly’. Starts having a loud go at her in front of everyone - it wasn’t good humoured, it was embarrassing and made everyone tense. He was snappy and off for the rest of the morning and then went to have a walk by himself.

I’ve known them as a couple for a long time. I can’t imagine him behaving this way 10-15 years ago. And it wasn’t like she and I in our menopausal states suddenly noticed and found it unacceptable. It was just him being a dick…and I hear of similar situations playing out all the time.

he is an arse @fleurblu . pretty simple. it only proves one thing - that he said something shitty. and I am sure it wasnt the only time either. but for every arsehole behavior example like that there is a good one too. so the point is: what you saw does not form a general rule. if you bring in an example a second friend with her husband will not make a general rule.a sixth, tenth and twentieth friend also. because someone can bring in a twentieth example of a good example. so how come that is not the general rule then? because none of it is. it is a combination of different personalities always.

I think this is a massive part of it.

Oh actuallly I have noticed this with the husbands of some of my friends. Very controlling

I won't claim that DH and I don't snap or fight over the dishwasher, but we never do it in public.

if we marry morons and put up with controlling and arsehole behavior the joke is on us.

@LadyLavenderUrchin - not quite sure where you’re going with this. It’s one example - similar to many, many examples I witness or hear about from my friends, or experience in my own marriage.

Examples that appear to have everything to do with men behaving in a certain way at a certain age, and not women going through the menopause.

@LadyLavenderUrchin - but a lot of these men weren’t ‘morons’ when these women married them! My point is - they have changed in midlife and become far more difficult to live with.

Men do not have the same rapid decline in hormone levels. Their drop in testosterone is gradual, in small amounts, over decades. It can cause depression etc and if any are experiencing that, they can always take responsibility for that instead of taking it out on their wife and children. It is not comparable to menopause and it does not cause behaviour that's almost always been there and is the primary reason for women opting out of relationships, marriage and in many cases having children.

My experience with men of this age is that I've not noticed them becoming grumpier so much as they seem to get very 'set in their ways' and almost anxious about doing anything outside their comfort zone. Life has to run along on its tracks in an unvarying routine or they start to panic. So I wonder if some of the grumpiness comes from losing a certain amount of control over life as their partner ages into a new stage of life with more freedom as the children grow up and become independent?

Need some empirical testing with gay male couples and couples without children.

I've said this forty times on here and I'll say it forty more - I can never credit who I heard it from first as I can't remember but it always rang true to me - men find their slippers, women find their wings. The film Pleasantville always makes me think of that.

ok lets go with it. I think change is part of life. life, work stress, grinding, kids, hormonal changes. it does happen. but my question is this. if and when they become grumpier and we acknowledge it are you 100% positive that there is no chance of us going through similar changes but not noticing it in the inside? because I am sure the men or a lot of them would not understand what change in grumpiness we are talking about. see my point? the potential. do you not see it maybe that we have the same difficulty? that we just dont see that we can become more irritable, less tolerable and tolerant, more demanding or bitchy at times? I am not asking if you recognise this about you personally or not. but the potential that maybe it is the same for us but are not seeing it.