No Contact why are Parents always painted as the guilty party?

[Nanjizel]

I would like to hear attitudes to a child who has gone no contact. While I have had no contact for 40 months my child age indicates that this is a fairly recent decision. In the overlapping time span I have a relative who has suffered from aggresive cancer I am now preparing for their death. I cant help making comparisons with someone who is dying and someone who isn't but whom I feel is dead to me. I understand that my child may have numerous grievances with my parenting approach. This subject has an abundance of text online describing all forms of cruelty to Children during their development. What is minimal is the advice for the parent who has been thrown under the bus. Is blood really thicker than water? If I encountered someone who behaved like this our interaction would be minimal at best. Why do I have to accept narasistic gaslighting and selfishness? I am aware that a better relationship would lift my associated depression, but that's not going to happen. Over the last 40 months I have made numerous attemps to contact, calls. cards, emails and gifts all received no response. I am preparing to draw a line in the sand when my relative passes away and end all involvement with the child in question. Treat both people as deceased I have other children and this course of action will most likely have a negative relationship I have with my other children. The impact of not reaching out to me to discuss the family member in pallative care is shocking as I believe the silent ones grievance is miniscule in comparison to what the person is suffering with and the conversations their having to have with their family.
Without conversation there no solution, this comparisson between the unwell and the healthy is a real line that can't be forgiven, I think it defines selfishness!

Going NC stops the drama. If I stop speaking with you and engaging with messages then I remove the opportunity for the other parties toxic behaviour to carry on. I can’t possibly see how going NC is causing or escalating drama?

"NC was a last resort to protect yourself and absolutely not used lightly."

Yes, I dont know ANYONE who cut off a parent willy nilly. Children are born loving their parents, it is so devastatingly painful to cut them off that no one would do it out of a petulant whim. In fact, most adult children who cut off a parent still love them even when they are NC. They just can't have them in their life anymore, because it drains and saps and hurts them so much, and the parent is immune and deaf to any attempt to improve things. A big catalyst and motivator is when the child has children themself: they realise that how their parent parented them was wrong, and they don't want their innocent children to be exposed to this destructive person who will never change.

I think some people use it to avoid drama.

for my stepdc, seeing their dad involves drama. Their mum doesn’t want them to, comes up with reasons, badmouths him etc.

their dad and I have always tried to keep out the mum drama. Never said anything against her, never complained when we were messed about, or got another phone call demanding the 16 year old came home because they wanted to stay Sunday and join in with what we were doing. The stopping us seeing them for whatever parenting misdemeanour we committed. The constant “I miss you more” was draining for us, let alone stepdc.

so the (nearly adult) kid went nc. Knew their dad wouldn’t cause a scene in the street, and knew it meant less drama with their mum.

In my experience people go no contact because they feel having that person, be it a parent or otherwise, in their life is damaging to them in some way. An exception to this, which happen to a family friend is when their child was being coerced by an abusive partner into cutting contact with friends and family.

I don’t necessarily jump to blaming the parents and there are exceptions but most children I know who treat their parents badly do so by being inconsiderate, asking for money or other favours and then withdrawing contact as a form of punishment they don’t cut contact entirely or for long.

Those who I know who are completely non contact have done so because the relationship is bad for them. One was always blamed for any problems and ridiculed by her family - they absolutely refuse to accept this and said she was overly sensitive but I saw them behave horribly towards her and the damage it did to my friends self esteem. Another who came from a materially privileged background and labelled as spoilt by teachers actually had a physically abusive father and a mother with alcoholism - they hid it well and it only came out when they divorced later on. My friend is now no contact with father and very low contact with her mum who she loves but who is very hard to be around.

Sorry but that's quite naive.

Try going nc with one of your married parents but not the other, or one of your siblings but not the rest of the family, or your MiL when your dh wants to keep up a relationship. Every wedding/funeral/family get together becomes a drama, if not for you then at least for the poor buggers in the middle. Some people thrive on that.

I have tried those things. We don't talk about the NC person. There is no drama.
I don't go to an occasion where the NC person might be. Because that would be contact.

It seems to me that you've not encountered people who have gone NC in the original sense of the word (to protect themselves, because they can no longer sustain the relationship) but those who want to make a huge point to get attention.

No contact means "no contact". Not "I'll see them sometimes" or "I insist on talking about them to everyone around me".

If you are going NC with one parent then the chances are both are abusive if you are cutting one off and the other has been an enabler. It is also very possible to cut off and not talk to one sibling while in my case still talking to the other as not all siblings have the same childhoods despite having the same parents. Not all end up manipulated and triangulation only works so far as all are kept away from each other but a certain strength when two or more siblings still keep in touch. Family weddings etc are only a drama for the actual person causing the chaos which is rarely the victim and I personally chose and still chose not to go to 'family' gatherings as most of them chose to stay on side of my abusive mother, not because they believe her but because if they do not tow the line they are next to be abused. It really is not simple and yes this is my current, past and present experience.

Because ultimately, childhood experiences shape adults, and the way adults show up (or don’t) for children has a massive impact on their emotional adjustment throughout life.

If an adult child is ‘’toxic’’, the reason can usually be traced back to repeated trauma experienced in early life because of a failure of parenting by the most important people in their lives who taught them how to be and were supposed to protect them. Perhaps your parenting left a lot to be desired, even if you weren’t knowingly abusive.

Obviously I don't know why your child felt no contact was best.
I can only talk of my own experience of going no contact with my dad.
Both myself and my sister did many years back.

He sent plenty of messages sounding very similar to yours post. Asking why he should put up with gaslighting. How it was affecting him and his mental state. He then went on to blame the abuse he gave on others and sent messages saying we had both misremembered the past and it was not him but x. He then tried blaming our mum for how he was too.

Through it all. He was the victim according to his messages and his conversations with family.

Not once did he acknowledge the pain he caused me and my sister. He was threatening with violence and homelessness throughout our childhoods. He would constantly tell my sister she was disgusting and fat even when she was below a size 8.
He abused us in other ways too and had the police involved.
He beat me with a belt until I bled. But worse than that was telling me it was coming and when so I had to wait and go to school knowing that night I was going to be beaten.
My earliest memory of my sister is me giving her my teddy when she was a baby so she would remember me because I was told I wasnt wanted and had to go find somewhere else to live. I was four.
But none of that was acknowledged when we cut contact. It was all messages about gaslighting and woe is me.

He died a couple of years ago now. We were called by the hospital as his next of kin. He was still on the ward. It was christmas and he still had a cracker on the table next to his untouched christmas dinner. We pulled the cracker and walked away.

We told the family, all those who kept telling us to get back in contact and how we were being horrible and not thinking of him.
None of them cared He had passed. Turns out he had lent money to most of them and used that to put pressure on them to pass those messages on.

We went to his house, our old childhood home. The next door neighbour was still the local vicar from when we were kids. We knocked on her door to let her know. She said she suspected when she hadn't seen him for a few weeks. But she didnt want to knock on his door just in case he was alive as then she would have to talk to him.

Hopefully that gives an idea on how deluded he was thinking himself as victim.

If you want to have an impact with your child. Acknowledge whatever it is that caused no contact. Do not try for further contact. Just acknowledge fully and apologise and leave it at that. To me that is the only thing that could possibly end in some form of contact or not.

I'm so sorry @AnonymouseDad . The story of the teddy was particularly heart-rending.

"Acknowledge whatever it is that caused no contact. Do not try for further contact. Just acknowledge fully and apologise and leave it at that. To me that is the only thing that could possibly end in some form of contact or not."

Yes, this is the only way forward for OP, and other estranged parents. The sad thing is that so many of them won't do any of this. They would rather keep hurting themselves out of pride, anger, and self-righteousness.

This is where we’re a bit stuck though.

we have completely backed off. Dh will send a text and transfer money still for birthdays/Christmas etc. this has been going on for years and no reply, no contact.

i am torn. I would like them to know our side of the tale. That dh did not have an affair, and the relative they’ve sided with absolutely did commit a crime, was abusive, and I have the paperwork from social services and various other agencies that prove it.

we thought we did the right thing when they were growing up, never involving them in adult politics, their mum and stepdad’s affair, why the marriage broke down, their mum’s behaviour. We had no clue that their mum over all those years was whispering in their ear painting dh (and me by association) as a serial adulterer who stole all her money and refused to pay cms.

so they have never heard the truth. I sometimes think about writing a letter should anything happen to dh or I, but is that fair on them? Dumping a load of evidence on them proving their mum lied and deliberately broke the relationship with their dad? And that they went NC for lies? Basically also breaking the relationship with their mum. She deserves it, but do they?

tbh I don’t care what they think of me. If they wanted to blame me so they could get back in touch with dh I’d be fine with that. It’s sad that they’ll miss out on years with their dad though, and him them. I fear it will never be resolved. It can’t be.

Thank you.
My daughter now has that same teddy. And our kids will never and have never experienced anything like that.

My daughter knows about my childhood and our son knows his grandad was a bad person and thats why he never met him.

They only went to that house when we were clearing it out.

The one good thing that came from it all was the lessons in how not to parent. What childhood trauma is and how to protect my children from ever knowing it. What damage words can do and making sure their lives are free of threats.

My daughter is almost an adult now and I feel so lucky that she will still ask me for help or advise and wants to spend time playing games and cooking and all sorts of other things with me.

They grew up with me reading bedtime stories every single night. Sleeping on the floor next to their beds when they had nightmares. Teaching them how to stand up for themselves and that it is always ok to have a different point of view. They have freedom to choose their own paths and know we will always be here to support them and that their home will always always be their home no matter what.

I firmly believe in taking things that while we wish we didn't go through and using those experiences to make the future better. And I am at peace with what happened to me as a kid because if anything were to have been different I would not have our two kids now and the happiness they bring. I wouldnt change a thing if it risked that.

@Usernamenotfound1 how do you know what the dc has been told and the reason they went no contact? Was the allegation ever put to him and how did he respond if so?

They're blessed to have a father like you. Has your sister managed to rise above her painful childhood as well?

We found out because I bumped into a parent of one of their primary schoolfriends. Who was surprised I was still married - apparently step dc told this friend were splitting up because dad was cheating on me like he did on their mum.

we know why they went NC because their mum isn’t quiet anymore about what a terrible person dh is.

So, these things happen. It is possible the daughter could no longer handle the pressure and expectation from her mother and went NC with her dad. I do strongly believe that children can sense and figure out who's lying. Deep down she will know, even though she may not be able to think it.

What has happened here is called triangulation and children will feel a sense of guilt and obligation towards the person doing the triangulation.

If you have made an attempt at contact before along the lines 'we are always here should you need anything & we would like to hear you out & we love you' I'd leave it at that. Under no circumstances send a letter and put all the wrongs right. It does not benefit her. I think you'd be doing it for your husband, but he cannot get justice from his daughter. He will have to make peace with the fact that there has been an injustice.

How old are the kids now? If they're in their 20s, I'd tell them now, with evidence. Because the mother's lies also paint their father as not caring about the kids. That's going to hurt them deep down inside (whether they acknowledge it or not). At the least, they should be made aware that your H always loved them - still loves them - and he did what he thought was the best thing he could do for them at the time.

Divorce with an alienating co-parent is very tricky: do you tell the kids that the alienator is lying, or do you "take the high road" à la the Obamas? My personal view is that lies, if not challenged, will inevitably stand, and that it's not fair to the kids to let them live their lives believing such profound lies. I also think witnessing some fighting and hearing at least part of the other side is not bad for kids. At the least, they know that you cared about them enough to fight for them.

I do see the self-sacrifice and kindness and decency that led you and your H to step back and leave the lies unchallenged. But if the kids are adults now, they're likely strong enough to hear what you have to say, and it could soothe the fear they might have that H didn't really love them.

@Usernamenotfound1 In that case, and if it is genuinely felt that there's no solution, I think it would make sense for your dh to send something setting the record straight from his perspective - if he is truly able to provide evidence to support this. I think he owes it to his dc and not just show he cares by sending money. In all likelihood, it won't change anything but his dc should have the chance to choose to continue to ignore their father based on all the facts that could be made available to them. There's no moral high ground in passively allowing the deception and the poisoning to run for the sake of a quiet life, to not at least put up a fight for a relationship with your child and allowing that child to think their dad is a terrible person who absolves his conscience by sending money twice a year because all he cares about is money etc. etc. No drama required, no expectations of a response let alone a positive one, no changes in gifting of money or contact attempts. Just the facts with sincere and apporpriate apologies where they are due.

I disagree with the idea that an adult child should be left to drown in the FOG of an alienating parent without an effort to at least shine a small beacon from afar.

I just want to say this isn’t always the reason for an adult child going non contact. A family member of mine did this with both parents, at completely different times and it seems it’s about self hatred, feelings of inadequacy and not wanting to be on the hook for any kind of support -even over the phone with their mum who they always got on well with.

Yes she has for the most part.

We both have a very dark sense of humour at times. Pulling the christmas cracker over him was a moment I dont think many would understand.
We also found a lot of catharsis clearing the house. While it was absolutly disgusting and a biohazard. We got to throw away all those things he held dear and saw what an absolute state of perpetual misery he lived in. We could see his walk patterns from his chair in the living room to the kitchen and the bathroom. He didn't have any friends. Family avoided him. And he used only those areas of the house and did nothing besides sit and live alone and unloved.

While we both went on to have our own families and friends and get together regularly for any reason.

Yes, the best revenge is a life lived well. I'm glad that you and your sister had and have each other, and were able to have the catharsis of clearing away the life debris of this cruel man.

OP I can tell you that in my experience people who cut a parent off rarely do it on a whim...

I chose to have minimal contact with parents and then no contact due to mental and physical abuse and neglect while I was a child and teenager, constant controlling behaviours and lies being told. Also because there was never any kind of apology or willingness to change behaviour. I just had to do this to save my own physical & mental health.

I am sure my mother tells everyone that I am a selfish monster but frankly the peace and happiness I have felt since cutting toxic relatives off is priceless.

People can be selfish whether parent or child.

I think my dsis is low contact with probably me and my parents.
She i think feels the grandparents treat her kids differently to each other. But honest its a mountain out of a molehill! Sometimes people do bond with others differently everything doesnt have to be 100% exactly the same. Dsis can be quite selfish.
Having said that im underneath quite annoyed with my mum as she in the last year has been going on abour my weight gain (telling me im fatter than her - im a 12 and shes a 16!) But actually thats not my annoyance its that shes said it in front of dd1 and with some other issue has triggered the start of an eating disorder. And dd hardly ate a lot to start with.
I guess im just saying that it isnt always a huge thing or abuse for adults to get stroppy.

Its very in at the moment to fall out with your parents.

We have a family member that is very sensitive, has to be handled carefully and will take offence easily. Some people don't have the social skills to keep on their good side even if they wanted to. I think when people like that go NC it's more likely an issue with them not the other person.