Does anyone else have a relationship like this?

[cornflowerblue32]

Hi,
Just seeking some thoughts on whether anyone else gets this behaviour from their partner. So we've been married nearly 20 years and I've had many situations over the years that follow a similar pattern.

The most recent being a good example - I asked my DH in a perfectly nice way to move the teaspoons from the side of the kettle to the sink or dishwasher, not to let them mount up. He is the only one in the house that drinks tea/coffee and there were quite a pile. I know it's petty but it's me that does the majority and with 5 of us (3 teenagers) in the house it's a lot of cleaning. His first response is always to deny everything and tell me I'm mistaken as it can't be him, I tell him it must be as he is the only one that drinks hot drinks, he then starts yelling at me telling me to stop nagging and that if he says it's not him then it's not. I give up and feel upset, he just carries on and never mentions it again and then ignores me for ages.

If I ever bring up any issues about his behaviour and how it makes me feel he always seems to turn it around and make me feel worse. He says he shouldn't have to deal with me in a mood and I've got nothing to nag about and I should just be grateful for what we have. I am grateful but feel like most of the time I'm here to cook and clean, and basically put up and shut up. I'm walking on eggshells most of the time as I don't want to say the wrong thing.
The reason I'm asking now is because my daughter made a comment - she heard him shouting at me over the teaspoons. She said 'if dad was to die before you, do you think you would feel more free to live how you wanted'. This shocked me and I've been looking up behaviour patterns all week.

What I want to know is, do other peoples partner act like this? Is this normal? I've only been married to him and had one not very serious boyfriend before I didn't live with.
Please be kind - I can't believe this has all come about over teaspoons! Like I say this is not the first time but the pattern is always the same and every time it's always my fault apparently. A lot of things I do seem to annoy him. I feel like I can't be myself. I've tried standing up to him more but he says I'm being horrible to him. I've tried letting things go and not being upset but I can't help it, perhaps I'm just too sensitive.

I did have to point out to mine that his grumpiness makes me feel anxious and on edge. My grumpiness has no impact on him because he has a hide like leather. Totally oblivious to my feelings. It hadn’t occurred to him that a man banging about the place about his own worries would upset me.

He doesn't shout at the kids the same way he shouts at me but he does moan at them telling them what he thinks they should be doing. I've told him that they live their own lives and they have to make mistakes to learn and they are perfectly capable of deciding what they like and don't like.

I'm really proud of my daughter - she stands up to him and calls him out in bad behaviour - I try not to tell her too much but she is very empathetic and will often say she can feel if I'm sad. They do help when I ask them too without any moaning. I think I am a bit of a martyr at times - something I'm working on!!

Love this 😂
I did wonder what would've happened if I continued to leave them there until there was no clean ones.

I can imagine living by myself - sometimes I daydream about the decisions I would make and what I would do and when and how.

But I couldn't be the one that destroyed the family set up - I think that would hurt me more, knowing that I was the one that dropped a bomb on family life.

Have you tried suggesting marriage counselling or individual therapy?

I think it would benefit you to look up the cycle of abuse and read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. It's available free online:

https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf

I also found this book really useful when I was leaving my own abusive situation:

https://amzn.eu/d/07LMkzaZ

Good luck OP, sending you love and strength.

Please please please leave this man. Do not let your son grow up into a version of his father. Stop the cycle.

Thank God your dd can see it for what it is - male abuse and privilege. Hopefully she won’t repeat the same model. Do you have sons? Because they will also have grown up thinking this is how men treat women. Depressing.

Even if you’re not going to leave, at least call him out on his abusive behaviour and tell him the jig is up.

Cornflower blue

You are not over sensitive!.

He has already destroyed the family set up by abusing you and in turn your dc who are seeing this at first hand. He’s dropped the bomb on it and it’s irreparable Your daughter is already challenging him and she as well as you need to know the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none. Your marriage is really over and at the very least is in its death throes now due to his abuse.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?.
Abuse is about power and control and he wants absolute over you. Abuse is NOT a relationship issue nor is it about communication or a perceived lack of.This is indeed learnt behaviour and he’s learnt it works for him.

Joint counselling is not recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. I get he is not nasty all the time but that is he really in the nice part of the nice/nasty cycle of abuse which is a continuous one.

For your part do not continue to get bogged down in your sunk costs. All this about being together a long time is part of the sunk costs fallacy . Re your fear of being alone , well you are pretty much alone in your marriage now and that won’t change as long as you and he remain together then he’ll go around moaning that you left him. You would recover in time from his abuses of you if you get out.

So your best option for you and your dc here is to leave. Teach them properly that the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none. Show the dc here too that you as a woman are not some rehab centre for some badly raised man. There is no justification or excuse here for his abuses of you and in turn your dc who are also seeing and hearing far more than perhaps either of you care to reside. You’re proving the blueprint for their future relationships.

Oh god yes, my ex was like this.

Menopause made me less willing to put up with it. Married and together 40 years.

I finally went to therapy (ex thought this was a good idea, so I would finally sort myself out). It had the complete opposite effect and my therapist said it was abuse (obviously not just about teaspoon type things).They also thought he had some narcissistic type traits. Once I learned this, all the confusing stuff became crystal clear and I couldn’t understand why I didn’t see it before.

My ex couldn’t cope with any failing on his part, any criticism from me felt like a personal attack. It wasn’t about spoons, it was me telling him he wasn’t wonderful. Their go to emotion is anger to shut you down. Then DARVO, they didn’t do it, or you’re being unreasonable, and it’s you who are in fact wrong and they are the victim of YOUR anger, moods, hostility, sensitivity, the list is long.

So you walk on eggshells, never disagree, never criticise, never have a different viewpoint. They get what they want, to do whatever they want, when they want, how they want. They also get you to do what they want - it’s easier than refusing.

The saddest thing about this, is they distort how you see yourself - so you actually need to ask “is this normal”, or think “it’s me, I’m too sensitive” Three years on I’m still trying to see that there is not something seriously wrong with me.

I guess I really understood the significance, when I finally understood that even from the beginning this had never been an equal relationship. I had thought we were, whereas he’d always thought himself the better and thusmore deserving person. That he was entitled to better treatment than me. That my only value was to make him feel or look good. Call it old fashioned misogyny, but understanding narcissistic traits truly reveals what’s really going on.

I suspect you will find the strength to divorce sometime in the future. Like me you will probably put everybody’s happiness before your own.

But one day you will no longer be able to endure. So start planning for your future financial freedom, even if it’s 10 years away.

Im single, but I’m the happiest I’ve been for a very, very long time. It’s only if you are in this situation that you can understand why a simple ask about spoons turns into such an emotional fallout on you.

My position was similar to @Imgoingtobefree and I waited 20 years to be free. But I got there and it was bliss to be away from him.

Please consider that all you are doing by keeping the family together is teaching your children that abuse is normal. They will then seek out similar relationships. This is exactly what happened to me. My mum stayed longer than she should have done and it definitely had a huge impact on my future relationships (multiple abusive relationships)

This is gaslighting and abuse - just because it's more subtle than slapping you in the face doesn't mean it isn't abuse. But you have some power here - his behaviour relies on you cleaning up after him for the sake of everyone else. What if you stopped picking up his spoons? What else do you do for him? Do you do his laundry; do you cook for him? He deserves to be dumped in my opinion, but if you're not there, at least take some power back.

I feel like I can't be myself.

And your daughter knows…

If this were just about teaspoons, you could just have a special ‘teaspoon-mug’ next to the kettle. But obviously this is about the entirety of your relationship with a husband who doesn’t care and will not see what is staring him in the face. You have tried to talk to him but not only will he not listen, but he truly, genuinely doesn’t give a f.ck.

Please do read that book by Lundy Bancroft - free pdf online.

I would also put some serious thought in realising your dream of living by yourself. Start by going full time at work and look into ‘getting your ducks in a row’ (Wikivorce, Divorce for Dummies, family solicitor websites).

Thank you for your reply. I'm almost in tears reading it - I think because I identify with all of it. I'm so pleased you are happy now.

I feel as though I want to give you a big hug - and I'm not a huggy type of person. 🤗

Leave the teaspoons where they are and ignore them. Also leave any of his other shit that he's left lying about the place. Make no comment. Don't touch a thing. Eventually he will notice that something is amiss, and he will begin to wonder why the cleaning fairy has gone on strike. Then he will belatedly realise that there is no such thing as the cleaning fairy, not since he accused her of nagging.

My daughters thanked me for leaving when they were young adults. Once they had some distance from the mayhem they individually came to me and said thank you for getting us out of there. Even though things were tough financially, they still appreciated the peace of leaving their toxic father behind.
Don’t kid yourself that your kids are loving the family setup.

That's the thing, are you preserving a lovely family set-up for your dc?

Or are you modelling a toxic relationship and unhealthy family dynamic.

Being the one to end things doesn't make you the bad guy.

Crimes?

Yes, it is entirely normal.

For selfish, lazy , immature men that is.

Problem being that they are the vast majority so women begin to think this is just what men do and tolerate it.

Plus we are so worn down living with these giant toddlers that we often have no energy left to fight for a line in the sand.

Also we frequently have children to think about or other financial and practical considerations making it hard to leave in this society where two incomes are often needed to survive and the woman has mostly paused or restricted her career whilst the man pursues his with resultant higher earning capacity.

If you are married, divorce is very expensive (not to mention emotionally draining) and the family courts are a lottery of misogynistic judges with unpredictable outcomes.

LTB is easy to say but not so easy to do.

I hope he does die a good while before you OP so that you have some time in your life to experience freedom.

Or maybe you will find a way to escape.

This.

My dh would NEVER speak to me like this because
A. We'd have a raging fight
B.I wouldnt let it go
C. If he made a habit of talking to me like that I'd divorce him.

I lived with this for years and ended up just shattered with everything being my responsibility - majority financial support of family, all domestic admin,ideas, most of the domestic load. The only thing he could organise was holidays for some reason. The scenario sounds exactly the same. I was so so much happier when I left him and ultimately so l were the DC. I do think the underlying tension in the house around this was affecting my DC. 6 years in and everyone feels much better though the mess and constant issues with his own life continue in his home - the good thing is that it is nothing to do with me! And my home is without tension.

This would never be a professional counsellor’s advice but I think you have to get yourself into a much more confrontational mode. My DH (anxious controlling mother and ASD father) used to do exactly the same thing when ‘criticised’, as he received it. The angry denial, sulking, listing things that were my fault etc. After a good few years of marriage I switched from feeling hurt and upset to absolutely losing my shit at him when he pulled that nonsense. It really worked and tbh I think saved our marriage.

I want to be you when I grow up😃!!!