(TW SA) Continuing support & sharing things…

[PinkPoetAgaiin]

Hi again everyone,

Making a new thread as some of the lovely ladies who have been supporting me for over a month now suggested I can continue to share my thoughts & feelings dealing with sexual & financial abuse (& other things) from my husband who I’ve been with since I was 18 (15 years).

Will be on and off for a bit as young DC is unwell at the moment and that’s taking all my energy.

I am not yet at the point of leaving - please don’t shout at me for being a bad mum. I did get a lot of criticism on my last thread for not getting them out immediately and I just can’t for reasons I explained.

Life feels heavy, but I’m focusing on DC at the moment ❤️

I'm glad things were uneventful, and that your migraine is better.

As pp said, it's not progress that your husband is behaving that way, although it may give you a reprieve. It's a tactic that he's employing to try to regain control over you, and lull you back into a sense of safety.

This is a man who pins you down, grabs your neck, and roughly - to the extent that he regularly leaves you sore - rapes you despite you saying 'no' or having indicated you don't really want to have sex.

He still thinks he has every right to rape you, he doesn't believe you deserve the right to say no, and he doesn't feel guilty about raping you.

What he thinks is that his previous tactics weren't producing the results he wanted, so now he's trying to 'be nice' to see if that works instead. He may be doing that now because during your period he doesn't want to have sex anyway, so it's an easy sacrifice for him to pretend to make.

I imagine in several days he'll be demanding you pay him back sexually for him being 'so good' and making 'such an effort', as though not raping his wife is such a great burden for a man, and he's done you a favour. He'll leverage the fact that he paused in raping you for several days to try to guilt you into allowing him to use you however he likes again. And if you don't fall back into line, he'll go straight back to being nasty.

It's not progress - it's just part of the same old garden variety abuse cycle.

@PinkPoetAgaiin while I M very glad he didn’t pester you, a few words and a little restraint from him is not “progress”. Progress would be days leading to weeks leading to months of gentle and mindful behaviour.

What he is doing is getting you to “trust” him as he’s realised you are on the edge. He’s pushed you so far to the edge now he has to bring you back “in” again, befire the whole cycle starts again.

Please continue to make your own progress Poet. Don’t give up on your therapy, women’s aid and your reading of literature. Have a good day at work and glad you are ok.

You’re all probably right but it makes a nice change from the knife edge dreadful atmosphere that’s been hanging over me the last week or so . But I won’t fall back into it’s all forgiven now .

I think I find it hard to fully accept that all the times since the first assault are actually r**e . I think I’m just really conditioned - and not just by him, to think that word only applys if sex is forced while you’re kicking and screaming. Or maybe completely unconscious like when I was younger. But I guess you could argue I was completely unconscious when he started sex when I was sleeping several times … I don’t know it just feels different I can’t explain it. Maybe not as bad? Or not as clear cut bad?

The way you all describe what he’s been doing is true , I just can’t get passed maybe he doesn’t realise what he’s doing is technically defined as r**e. I don’t believe he would know about ‘enthusiastic consent’ i didn’t . Or that he’s supposed to check I’m ok at every stage.

throughout our whole relationship there have been instances when he’s done things during sex (I’m not going into it because it’s too embarrassing/graphic to write them out, but it’s nothing dangerous just perhaps not your usual sex stuff) and he’s just done it without asking first. I would mostly go along with it but occasionally I would say no and he’ll usually stop but my point is he doesn’t ask first . I don’t think he realises he’s meant to

I think it is highly unlikely he doesn't understand consent, he just doesn't care. Male entitlement/ownership/control is more important to him than your consent.

But either way, it makes no odds- he is a grown man with full criminal responsibility for his actions. Ignorance of a crime is no defence.

Thinking back to the Game book, the whole premise is obtaining sex from women by manipulation and/or force. That has never been acceptable and he has literally used every trick in the book on you.

This.
He’s just hoovering.
And he definately won’t change from being a serial rapist to a nice guy, ever. It’s all an act.

The reason he doesn’t think it’s rape, doesn’t think he has to ask, is that he considers you to be property. ‘You ought to want sex with your husband’, so he can have sex whenever he wants and you not wanting it are the issue. That’s how his head works. I’ve seen women saying the same.

However he may think of it, you are not his property. He doesn’t get to choose without you. It’s supposed to be mutual, a partnership. One of the ways it stays mutual is making it enjoyable for each other. Hurting someone is not going to encourage enthusiasm for a repeat.

The behaviour is a symptom of his underlying attitude to you as an appliance, an object for his use.

I'm afraid, Poet, you're very naive in that regard.

Him not asking first is part of 'The Game' - it's him knowingly taking advantage of the fact that 'it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission'. If he just does something then his target is more likely to allow it to happen (because women are socially conditioned to not say 'no' in those kinds of situations) than if he asks first.

It's a deliberate tactic meant to override and disregard your boundaries.

There is literally no way that he is under the age of 60 and doesn't know that a man is supposed to ask before trying something new, or gain signs of enthusiastic consent. Add to the fact that he's read 'The Game', which is all about trying negate and avoid a woman saying 'no', and coercing her into sex (raping her), he absolutely knows what he's doing.

He is deliberately inducing a fear/fawn/freeze response in you, Poet, when he does things to you without asking, and he's very successfully groomed you into thinking that an incredibly abusive and unnatural dynamic is normal.

He knows what he's doing. As an older man, he deliberately preyed upon a vulnerable, traumatised teenager, because he knew you'd be easy prey for his tactics. Then he used every trick in the misogynist's handbook to skew your perspective of normal, make you emotionally dependent on him, and keep you pregnant.

I think if you can't bring yourself to name it 'rape', then you should at least try to reframe it in your head as 'coerced sex', and move away from just calling it 'sex'. What he does to you is not what a husband is ever supposed to do to his wife.

And he isn’t doing this behaviour to a stranger, but to his wife. Someone vulnerable to him, who he is supposed to cherish and protect.

And you are finding it hard to name for lots of reasons. Partly your brain trying to protect you. It’s a word I struggle to use as well. My brain shies away from it.

Kicking and screaming… well it’s hard to kick and scream while you’re asleep.
It’s also hard to object, when you’ve learned he overrides your objection. It’s marginally easier to let him get on with it and tell yourself you didn’t say no, than to say no and have him carry on anyway.

Consent is required for each and every sex act. I'm guessing from your comment that he also anally rapes you. This can be very dangerous, especially without any lubrication/preparation leading to anal fissures, prolapse and potential incontinence.

He is seriously physically harming you on an ongoing basis. This is not "less bad" than a punch in face.

Hi Poet, I’m glad you’re OK today and getting lots of excellent support & advice on here. I haven’t been a regular poster because I don’t feel particularly ‘qualified’ to help, but can I just say, I think there are two aspects to the discussion about consent - one about legal technicalities and societal/cultural norms, but another about our own morality and simply what’s right or wrong. My partner is hardly a stickler for the ‘rules’ in life, but he regularly checks I’m OK during sex. And it’s not because he thinks he’s supposed to, it’s because he loves me and he actually cares whether I’m OK or not.

"he regularly checks I’m OK during sex [...] because he loves me and he actually cares whether I’m OK or not."

This is such an excellent point. Regardless of social rules, if you care about someone then you should want to be sure that they're comfortable, okay, and wholeheartedly enjoying sex.

Yeah . I can’t even write it it makes me cringe. Really not my thing. He did it a couple of times early on in our relationship , within like 6 months of dating , during normal sex without asking first , and I wanted him to think I was experienced and good at sex etc but I hated it. Told him probably a couple of years I really didn’t like it. He overall respected that but I do remember one occasion he did it again and I just burst into hysterical crying and panic attack and he stopped straight away. Said he got ‘carried away’ . Think I was pregnant then too, different pregnancy

". If I asked to go to my mums"

I note your phrasing. You have to ask. I can't speak for anyone else's relationships here but if I want to go and stay with someone I tell my husband that's what I am planning to do and which date it is. I don't ask permission and I don't expect him to tell me I can't go. Maybe it's because we don't have kids but it seems almost infantilising to me to have to ask permission.

I presume your husband doesn't ask permission to do the stuff he wants, go to the gym, have his own bank account, not share money etc.

And what everyone else said about progress. He can manage what, maybe 4 days without raping you? You're back in the minimising bit of the cycle. "Overall respected" - no. In your own words he just waited a while and did it again. If he respected you he would never have tried again. I don't know how we or counselling or something can help move you on from the mindset that he's a nice guy who just has this little problem of raping you.

This mornings update is so, so sad. Like everyone else has said Poet, this is not progress; this is him ramping up the nice guy part of the cycle.

The fact that you think it is progress is just utterly heartbreaking.

You’re still even struggling to see that what he’s doing is rape.

Remember when you were looking through those texts while your daughter was poorly? How many times did you find the word 'sorry' again? How many times in those texts did he say he would try to be a better man after being dreadful go you?
And yet, here we are.

I do think he didn't initiate sex after his big cyclical sorry this morning because you are on your period.

I can see from how you write @PinkPoetAgaiin that you are seeing the cycle you are in.
I think you are doing great to be able to see that x

Oh love, he has treated you so badly and for so long.

He’s anally raped you as well?

You have to ‘ask’ to go to your mums?

OP you are in serious danger with this man. I know you can’t see it, or don’t want to, but this scale of abuse is absolutely horrifying.

Yes , it’s only when I write it out i actually think … no I actually was fully unconscious so that’s really not ok!!

I do believe this is what’s happening now. It’s a vicious cycle because I never say no to him because I never want to go back to that night feeling like what the fuck he’s actually r**ping me and crying my eyes out (I do remember thinking that at the time) so I just agree and go along with whatever he wants and then he thinks I’m sex crazy, dirty wife of his dreams that is ‘always up for it’ even in the middle of the night and so we continue.

So messed up how did we end up here

A couple of times when we first got together - but we were already having consensual sex so I don’t know if that makes a difference .

I didn’t want him to think I was inexperienced/frigid but I see now it’s not

Doesnt everyone need to ‘ask’ before organising a weekend away - I can’t believe that too unusual. With young kids?!

Consent is needed before EVERY sex act. Just because you’re already having consensual sex does not mean he is free to do anything he wants to your body. So no, that’s not normal.

He doesn’t think you’re anything of the sort . He knows he’s dehumanising and raping you against your will and he enjoys the power he has over you.

He absolutely knows that you’re not ‘up for it’ - it’s his abusive pattern knowing he’s violating your boundaries and he doesn’t care.

This is him knowing what he’s doing and the fact you’ve been groomed to not have any idea of what is and isn’t normal - and none of this is normal

You 'ended up here' because your husband is a rapist who is deliberately and repeatedly raping you.

It's that simple.

If your husband respected your lack of enthusiasm and backed away when you indicated you weren't really in the mood for sex, then you wouldn't be here.

And I know it feels less confronting for you to just let him do it and not say 'no' or cry...but it's not helpful to fool yourself into thinking that makes it not rape. It just means that you're not protesting when your husband rapes you, because you know from experience that he's going to keep doing it anyway.

It's horrific. He's broken you down to the point where you just accept your own rape, and even consider initiating your own rape, because it's easier and keeps him happy. But you don't have to keep doing it. You have the power to change things, for yourself, and for your children, who shouldn't have to grow up in a household where their mother is being raped multiple times a week by their emotionally and financially abusive father.

sadly you ended up here because he is a very unpleasant man with a perfect front, and he targeted you because he knew you would be vulnerable after your attack, and you were young, inexperienced and naive. None of those things are your fault.

He used vile techniques and he is still using them. He may have thrown the book away, but its imprinted on his mind, because everything he is doing is right out of its pages. You didnt know any better, and as he was older and more experienced you have trusted him and believed what he told you was normal.

Its not your fault that you were vulnerable, and its a real shame that your friends were so unsupportive. Similar happened to a relative, and I was horrified how it was much easier for people who were supposed to be friends to side with a rapist and blame the girl, than to confront him and face the fallout. And these were the girls. However the two boys she was friends with absolutely supported her. Society is primed to blame women for men's actions. In many ways the boys saw it easier than the girls, and I wonder if that is why he was so keen to make sure that no other boys came near you. Did you have many male friends? Im assuming definitely not now? I think he has also likely fed into your fear of the 'men out there' and him being your protector, which is also another way to completely fuck your mind up.

Im also not surprised to hear that the other nasty event you describe also happened in pregnancy - as I mentioned previously, pregnancy and lactation are extremely vulnerable times, and also correlate with when abuse often ramps up because the abuser feels that they have the victim trapped..

It makes me think that he wants to do the nasty stuff when you are vulnerable, because firstly he gets off on it, but mainly because you are in the least able position to leave.

Just because you have consented to one kind of sex does not mean you consent to another kind. I sadly have experienced the same thing with some nasty piece who did the same. I stopped it there and then and I THINK I made him leave. I was particularly naive as wasnt even aware you could/would do such a thing. I was 19 I think and living away from home. I felt guilty and if it was my fault because I was sleeping with alot of people. But I didnt deserve or ask for that, and I do now consider that it was rape. It took a long time to accept that too, and the other time that it happened when I was younger and I didnt consent but carried on, because I didnt know how not to. That was in the 80s though and Im pretty sure that everyone is alot more informed now.

As for organising a weekend away. Well I would say that you dont need to ask permission to do something, but obviously you do need to discuss childcare. And given they are his kids, then he could look after them. The only reason it could be refused is if there is a previous arrangement already in place.

so No, permission doesnt need to be asked for, you shouldnt need to be 'allowed' as if he can veto it for any reason, but yes the practicalities may need discussing a bit.