Struggling with my daughter's hurtful behaviour and its effect on us.

[Daughteradhd]

Hi, I really need some advice about the relationship with my 10 year old daughter. She was diagnosed ADHD last year but I suspect like myself she is AuDHD.

Ever since she was about 5 she has told me in outbursts that she doesn’t like me as a mum. She now usually says something along the lines of, what kind of mother are you, I wouldn’t expect a mother like you to care about me etc etc. She has no friends in school because she is verbally unkind in situations and now no one wants to be her friend. She hates her sister. I am really really struggling and I hate this but it is effecting the way I feel about her. She always ruins any family day out because something will happen and she will then become very dark and unkind. I have fought so hard for her, to get her the diagnosis, to explain to everyone so they understand and make allowances. But at the end of the day people don’t want her around because she becomes verbally very scathing.

The words she says to me are now starting to affect our relationship. I’ve tried so hard to just accept it’s part of the ADHD. I myself have the same thing but I’ve never been unkind to people. She keeps making comments about me being a rubbish mum because I don’t make her feel the way she wants. But I literally can’t, I have another child. She wants me to love her more than her sister but I can’t as I love them equal. She looks me in the eye and just tells I am not like a proper mum, like everyone else has. But then everyone else’s children aren’t doing this. There isn’t a single person who she likes because eventually they do something to upset her and she burns the bridge.

I don’t know what is happening. Does anyone have any advice?

I'm not saying there is no ND - but that not everything can be explained by it, and it risks ignoring the wider dynamic.

'The psychologist and teacher etc have said that this doesn’t present as trauma. What they she said that is because she rates herself on the behaviour of people towards her and her behaviour means she gets lots of negative feedback it’s feeding the behaviour. '

I really don't like the term Rejection Sensitivity as it's so vague but this is what comes to mind. It's not ND specific symptom though. It means she expects people to be negative, and reacts accordingly - because of her experiences. I'd look at supporting her recognising this is not always the case, rather than trying to always avoid any possible triggers.

But she isn’t reacting accordingly really. She simply has no comprehension of how to behave. I get the RSD. I suffer this myself. She is in her own world, one where there are no social rules. For example if someone is walking towards her she would never think to move aside. All I ever hear from her is but why do I need to. Well because it’s the way we live harmoniously, we can’t just do what we want when we want and not consider anyone. She doesn’t understand this.

She will want something and I’ll say no because your behaviour hasn’t been very good. She says why does my behaviour have anything to do with you buying me something. It’s like all the parts of equations and connections are missing.

My daughter (asd/adhd/PDA) used to say the strangest things and she told me once "i can't help it, the words just come tumbling out".

She was diagnosed with a clinical speech and language disorder in year 6. We had absolutely no idea- she spoke in what seemed to be an ok way to me but it's anout much more than that and partbof it is about social skills, also relevance and appropriateness of what they say.

Is there any chance you could get her assessed privately by a Speech and Language therapist? We found that this brought the most help. It is strongly related to asd and could help you with that diagnosis too.

Sounds like something to look into.

It’s just so challenging to help her. She is a brilliant and create Iittle girl and to me if she could get to grips with others she would be able to cope much better. Others is just a concept she has no idea of and they just become enemies to her. I’d hate for her to grow with this trauma that people and relationships are something to fear. Even those in her life who are trying to help she dislikes. As she tells me what they say hurts her but it’s always what she needs to hear to grow. I hope that she is able to develop to have some understanding. She must feel so out of touch right now.

Brilliant post and not just useful for people with ND dc.

Any young teen will benefit from working on these skills.

@DuskOPorter Are you a therapist of mental health specialist? Do you have any books you'd recommend on this type of 'self improvement'?

In terms of OP's dd, I hope with the right support she will develop interpersonal and self regulation skills. dbt therapy is meant to be effective.

Thank goodness we have moved on from the times where children such as OP's dd were either hidden away lingering in the family home or sent off to work elsewhere.

I am confident that with the right support your dd will overcome these difficulties.

It must be very difficult and you are doing your best as a mother.

Sounds ASD in addition to the adhd. Also lack of reciprocity and also thinking in pre existing straight lines and narrow, pre existing mental models rather than connecting the dots flexibly in real time based on the environment and incoming info.

I just want to second the possibility of it being a personality disorder, my mum has it without doubt, she doesn't know she has it and I'm trying to get the doctors to assess her but as soon as I read your daughter's traits I saw my mother! My mother should have been properly assessed over 4 decades ago but the they just gave her benzodiazepines all these yearsnavd I guess just treated her as having some kind of PTSD but she ticks every borderline personality disability box and is hell at times since my dad died 9 years ago, the hate and the cruelty is very much what they do!

Also just to add, my mum is shockingly nasty to her younger sister, it's a bizarre child like jealousy even at 74 years of age! She has fallen out with her brother too and has shocking victim mentality when the problem is all her.

With children who have adhd and or ASD you need to be far firmer and stricter on things like manners and behavior! Letting them off with things or expecting other people to pander to them won’t work long term! They will end up with no friends and no jobs as no one will like them and won’t put up with the shit they come out with or have any patience with the “excuse” of additional needs! I say this as someone with ASD and adhd myself who has had to teach my kids the same thing and the very basic things like emotions and how other people feel etc. it does eventually go in but you have to stop letting her get away with rbos rude harmful behavior towards everyone and start with you and her sister!

Oh OP, ok just reading through more of your posts and if you see what I've posted already, I am seeing so much personality disorder in this! My mum gets angry about other people's active lives and being at home lonely but she's the only person making daft excuses to avoid going places or doing things! She willfully excludes herself but it's everybody else's fault, due perceives abandonment all the time. And what you said in posts about being in "me" mode, that's exactly my mum too! She doesn't care how her suicide threats and taunts make us feel, how tearing her sister apart makes her sister feel, she will cheerfully tell me and my brother that her dog is all she lives for! We are having very bad issues with her at present and I strongly, strongly advise getting doctors to think about the possibility of this now for your daughter and intervene with therapies now because I wouldn't wish a BPD adult on anyone!

Hi OP. This doesn't sound like rudeness or poor behaviour. It sounds like she's being overwhelmed with emotion and doesn't know how to handle it or understand it.

With AuDHD it's likely that she has very intense emotional reactions to things. Small things can feel very intense and personal and often can lead to looking for someone to blame. As the one closest to her, she could be feeling bad, unsafe, insecure and when looking for someone to blame it lands with you. If this is happening, she may not even realise this. It just goes from intense negative feelings straight to you're a bad mum.

AuDHD thinking can carry a lot of weight in right and wrong, mistakes that people make can feel like a big injustice. This could explain what's happening with other relationships. When something small happens, she feels it as something big and final and reacts accordingly.

It's hard in a family dynamic, you can feel like you're walking on eggshells, never knowing what will trigger the next outburst.

It could be worth having a talk with her when she's feeling good. If there's something she enjoys doing with you, do that thing and gently reassure her. Maybe come up with a time in the week that's just for you and her (you can also do the same with your other child). Just a time where she doesn't feel like she has to compete. Where she gets total focus.

A side note: what are the things you love about her, what is she good at, what do like to see in her. Sometimes it can be easy to get stuck in thinking about not trying to trigger the bad that the good gets pushed aside. Try and remember her good qualities before you interact with her and you'll probably see that how you approach things change slightly and she reacts a little calmer in those moments.

She is only 10. I really don’t believe she has a personality disorder. I do believe that she is struggling with lots of various things that give her a better understanding on life. I don’t disagree that if left to fend for herself she could very well end up mimicking one

Yes it really does. I think I will do another pathway and get her assessed for asd also. I wish there was a joint pathway, there is so much waiting around.

Don't write it off though, the NHS states it can be identified at ages as young as 11.

I think a lot of personality disorders are misdiagnosed ND with trauma like c-ptsd. She has a loving home and has always been protected by myself. There has been no abuse or neglect that she has been part of. But she is definitely struggling I don’t dispute this. If I hadn’t had a similar experience and been ND myself I would have agreed something else. Having to understand the world around your understanding is hard when things don’t make sense. She only has her own perspective and she is so young. It’s taken me 43 years to understand this and reduce some of my own pain. This is just hard. Hard because I know the pain that this thinking can cause and I wish I could make it better and take it away.

Is therapy an option for her? You are right in what you say, its so difficult for neurodiverse girls and I can imagine it being hard to watch your little girl go through similar to what you did and not being able to comfort her. She needs proper help though 🫶🏼

There's a lack of empathy on the part of the younger DD giving a hug without checking that it's OK first.

I would say to the child if i am not a proper mother to you, move out. You can visit on sundays. All joking aside take it on the chin. But demand respect and you could take things away from her that you give her. Your allowing the child too much freedom to rebel.

'Her teacher has said that most of the problem is coming from her lack of empathy. She is simply unable to comprehend the other person. She is stuck in me mode all the time and doesn’t consider the other person at all.'

You cannot teach someone empathy, but you can support recognising the consequences of their behaviours. If you keep hurting people, they will move away. It's a fact. Additional diagnosis will not change it, although it may mean others will reduce their expectations of your DD.

I'd get support for yourself OP, and look at how you can support your other daughter.

My AuDHD daughter does this. It's very hurtful but try not to take it personally. It's what you can get with someone disregulated and verbally articulate (getting hit isn't very nice either).

I recommend the book 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child (Jeffrey Bernstein) for practical tips. I use his positive images method all the time.

Just respond to mean comments with "That's a shame because I love you."

Try for connection. What are her interests?

You may have to cut back on days out if they're a particular trigger. It can work to go to a small number of places frequently.

The charity Sibs is good for ideas too.

One of the key features of autism is social communication differences. DD needs help (social stories, maybe play therapy?) rather han just being left to flail.

Of course she loves you, OP.

Is your daughter getting any support at school? As well as speech and language, sounds like she needs ELSA type support. With a scary shouty dad and past DA to you there are safeguarding issues too. Do the school know this? Sometimes safeguarding unlocks more resources than SEND sadly.

Has she got an EHCP? If not, I suggest you request one ASAP as secondary transition can be very hard for girls like your daughter.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5484488-ehcp-support-thread-no-6?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share