Struggling with my daughter's hurtful behaviour and its effect on us.

[Daughteradhd]

Hi, I really need some advice about the relationship with my 10 year old daughter. She was diagnosed ADHD last year but I suspect like myself she is AuDHD.

Ever since she was about 5 she has told me in outbursts that she doesn’t like me as a mum. She now usually says something along the lines of, what kind of mother are you, I wouldn’t expect a mother like you to care about me etc etc. She has no friends in school because she is verbally unkind in situations and now no one wants to be her friend. She hates her sister. I am really really struggling and I hate this but it is effecting the way I feel about her. She always ruins any family day out because something will happen and she will then become very dark and unkind. I have fought so hard for her, to get her the diagnosis, to explain to everyone so they understand and make allowances. But at the end of the day people don’t want her around because she becomes verbally very scathing.

The words she says to me are now starting to affect our relationship. I’ve tried so hard to just accept it’s part of the ADHD. I myself have the same thing but I’ve never been unkind to people. She keeps making comments about me being a rubbish mum because I don’t make her feel the way she wants. But I literally can’t, I have another child. She wants me to love her more than her sister but I can’t as I love them equal. She looks me in the eye and just tells I am not like a proper mum, like everyone else has. But then everyone else’s children aren’t doing this. There isn’t a single person who she likes because eventually they do something to upset her and she burns the bridge.

I don’t know what is happening. Does anyone have any advice?

I would be pushing for the autism assessment and also be looking at the aspects of autism of alexithymia (difficulty processing your own emotions and understanding others) and pda.

If you look up pda and low demand approaches, you will find loads of resources. Low demand does not mean letting them do whatever they want, but does mean giving more choices and dropping all unnecessary demands. Eg society says that presents are a surprise, but it places a huge demand on the child, so you can agree upfront what the birthday present will be.

Child led play therapy is also a good idea. Make sure you look for one that is genuinely child led, not "we have to talk for 15 minutes then you get to play with specified item" adult led therapy.

I tried to grey rock the toe incident this morning and just carry on as normal so we could get to school. It escalated to her screaming so you don’t love me do you, look at you ignoring me. I sat her down an explained this situation is out of hand, it’s just a toe why are we so emotional. It went badly. You are right and I should have kept my mouth shut.

She has actually got me sat here questioning whether I do actually love her. I feel like I’m being abused all over again, questioning my reality.

I wouldn't say the nasty behaviour is typical of someone with ADHD. I have ADHD, as does DD14 and DS12. Neither of them are mean. Emotional, yes, but not nasty. Neither one have ever called me names or said I hate you etc. I do get that not everyone with ADHD is the same, but I just don't think this behaviour is something that can solely be attributed to ADHD. It's definitely not something that can be excused by it.

How have the school been with regard to getting support?
im very conscious of puberty is going to make things worse, it’s also easier to get support when the school know you and your child before secondary kicks in.

I’ve been told that girls present differently due to the difference in their emotions. My daughter is less hyperactive and doesn’t move around much. But emotionally she is very hyperactive and she has the words to match.

@Daughteradhd has there been any early childhood trauma? Separation from you (or primary caregiver) for example? How was her birth?

Firstly, personality disorder is only diagnosed after age 18 because children and teens are still developing their personalities and many children and teens are capable of being deeply unpleasant but do mature and grow up.

am I correct in assuming that you and her dad live separately and custody is shared? That can bring all kinds of issues with it - she may be worried that both her parents will leave her, if dad or you has a new partner and/or new kids it can lead to really strong feelings of rejection and that she doesn’t belong in the new family.

for what it’s worth both my kids went through phases like this (one ASD one AuDHD and they are both pretty reasonable adults with no personality disorders).

Girls do present differently but not through the form of being a total c word. If anything they overcompensate and seem "good" (the stereotype anyway).

Social interaction deficit maybe - if you think she is also Autistic could it be something about her social communication that's reading as "off" or that she's not getting to grips with.

It sounds like an attachment issue tbh - pushing people away to test them but overdoing it to such an extent that she is burning bridges permanently, and doing it to peers as well as those who should love her unconditionally. Autistic social communication can read like an attachment issue when it isn't though, but unfortunately if pushing people away like this becomes a maladaptive coping strategy it can really lead to isolation even from family.

I know everything is underfunded and mental health services are overstretched and waiting lists are insane, but I wonder whether you could find support for her through your GP, the National Autistic Society or Young Minds. Maybe talk to your GP about an autism diagnosis and specialist therapy.

I’m sorry, that sounds really tough. I wonder if I could ask whether you mean bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorder - I know the difference but often see them both written as BPD.

Yes girls do present differently. I was a quiet, shy, daydreamer, but inside my brain never shut up! I was also very emotional and moody, with a very hot temper, but i wasn't horrible to people. I was a people pleaser to over compensate for what I saw as my "failings" My hyperactivity also shows through stimming and fidgeting, my hands are never still.

Can you try reacting honestly but calmly? It helps to be able to speak your concerns, and prevents the occasional lashing out that even the best parent will do when exhausted and fed up.
She may need to hear- without anger shame or blame-
That’s not nice
I’m hugging DS2 because she’s done something lovable.
If you say mean things, people won’t like you.

Direct teaching about ways to behave that help other people feel comfortable. Point out when people are nice to her, or do things for her, so she doesn’t overlook it.

What about social stories, of the morality tale variety? Little Suzie who said mean things and had no one to play with. Little Jenny who was kind to people and had lots of friends.

The only thing I can suggest, having parented children who sometimes said similar things and used to have horrendous tantrums of saying what a bad parent I was, is to just grey rock it.

Find a phrase, use that phrase, such as 'that's a shame, I love you anyway, let's go do something else'.

If it persists, say, 'that's a hurtful thing to say, I don't like people saying hurtful things so I'm going to walk away for a little bit and then come back'.

I think what often happens is that you and your daugher are caught up in a cycle of feeding off each other's emotions. You can't regulate yours, your daughter can't regulate hers. You feel distressed by her rejection, you react to it, she then reacts to you- it's very cyclical.

The best thing you can do for her is to learn to regulate your own emotions anad anxiety and stop them spiralling when she says nasty things. You need to do this to shore up your own emotional well-being for the future, especially as she's going to be a teen, and also to help her learn to self-regulate. Ways to do this are to get support from other parents, self-help books, CBT, meditation, therapy, whatever works for you. I've found the book 'Let Them' by Mel Robbins is a great place to start.

I am not saying all this because I am good at regulating my own emotions, I am rubbish at it and had many problems with my children in their teen years as a result, they are also ND, and it would have helped them enormously if they hadn't had a mum who got anxious, upset and then lashed out when she was emotionally overwhelmed. I don't beat myself up about it, I did my best, but I prefer being a little more distant from the ups and downs of their emotions and better able to regulate my own self these days, and it's improved our relationships a lot too.

I have taught children who act like this. My method might seem mad. But l picture them wearing a t shirt saying REJECT ME! They feel so bad about themselves and the rejection is deep rooted. So l come with the opposite..just positive , loving upbeat encouraging etc to counteract that feeling. Its not easy as everything in you is screaming to reject them but we are adults and so make a decision of our will to love them no matter what. Their tank needs to be filled up constantly. Decide today that you are a good mom who is doing your very best for your child. When she says ..l hate you..just let it over your head as she doesn't mean it she is just frustrated and trying to attack your weakest spot. When she realises after a while that it has no impact she will move to something else. Try not to engage with the tirades. Just let her vent and then move on as though nothing happened. Detach for those few moments and then continue a normal relationship with her. Make every effort to hug her and hold her when she allows it.
Its far easier for me as a teacher of course as l am not needing anything from these children and it is very painful. But she is testing you seeing how far she can go to make you reject her but your answer ..by your actions is NEVER!!
You are not responsible for her being like this so go easy on yourself and get as much support as you can.

Like PPs I also thought about PDA profile of autism. Have a look at ‘equalising behaviour’ and see if that rings any bells.

This makes a lot of sense. I really do try but the whole house is like a pressure cooker. I walk on eggshells and the smallest of things and everything is blown. We have to all live together. My youngest can’t even put a toe in my eldest bedroom or else she’s in for it. She is just completely anti social. I can’t live like this, I can’t stop the other one breathing near her or nothing ever happening. Any mention of something negative and she spirals into rejection and shame. I can’t get through at all.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Could you try to put a bubble around yourself and imagine the hurtful remarks bouncing off rather than being absorbed into you? Pick responses, such as “you need to be kinder to me” and “I’m sorry you feel that way” or “the way you’re talking to me right now is not acceptable” or “I’m not going to talk to you when you’re shouting at me” like a broken record but don’t react or engage. She’s using you as an emotional punchbag because you are the one person she feels completely safe with and knows you’ll never leave her. I think she’s angry and doesn’t know how to express or process it so it’s exploding out of her like a shaken can of coke. Is there a sport or a hobby she likes where she can let off steam? I agree with those saying she’s struggling with something else, something she feels out of control with and she’s pushing everyone away because of it. Hurtful behaviour can’t just be written off / accepted / expected as part of ASD or ADHD - that only compounds the stigmas already surrounding neurodiversity. I think she’s lashing out because she’s angry and doesn’t know how to cope with such big feelings. Does her school have a SEN team she could have 1-1 time with, or a counsellor? Sorry if I’ve missed that and you’ve answered that already. It must be doubly hard going through this as a single mum, and although it might not always feel like it, you’re doing great, and you will all come out of this. I hope you find times when you can take care of yourself too. Sending strength xx

Read the 'Let Them' theory, the extra workbook on children.

I'd also read the Explosive Child.

Get yourself therapy or support to help you cope.

Get everyone else things to do to meet their needs- like your youngest might have a hobby that gets her out of the house, your difficult daughter takes up horse-riding or something that engages her differently, and you get someone to babysit your children so you can go out one hour a week.

I do get it, I've lived in the pressure cooker and I've lived on eggshells, but I don't anymore.

I also agree PDA is a likely profile for your dd.

Over time you can decrease the pressure, you are overwhelmed yourself and starting there will help you enormously.

My youngest is also showing signs of asd. My eldest definitely fits the PDA profile more than the deliberate pushing people away. I do believe she reacts like this as a way to secure control back. But she doesn’t seem to understand that we aren’t the ones who’ve taken her control away, her emotions are just not under any control and that’s her doing. I believe she punishes to equalise but it’s just ruining the relationships she has. I over explain in the desperate desire to help her but it’s not helping at all. I try to help her retain relationships like with her sister but she just doesn’t seem to care.

@Daughteradhd there are so many resources available online to explore and find solutions for you and your daughter.

Although it must feel so very personal and hurtful, your daughter processes differently (it would seem)

An adhd/audhd child is not naughty nor deliberately "challenging", they are struggling.

Have you heard of rejection sensitivity dysphoria?

Sounds like what is going on here?

Do try a bit more research into understanding her world @Daughteradhd you will all benefit. 🌻

Try the medication, keep grey rocking. Look out for your youngest.

I have read and read so much. I am asd myself so I really understand. I feel so much similar myself but I present so differently. Growing up I was never like this to my family. Yes I felt inferior and I felt misunderstood and I was always anxious and overwhelmed but I really tried to connect to my mum, I tried to be good and hide it. I talk to my daughter, I tell her I understand and how we are so similar and I’m not her enemy but this is how I feel and how she treats me. She is much more out of control and much more controlling. I never tried to control adults. I know she is struggling, I am still asd and struggling, it doesn’t go away. I think the difference is the PDA part, this is difficult.

Have you discovered this site @Daughteradhd, could it be of use? (fyi, takes a while to upload)

I have read so much and yeah I’ve come across this one. I think I’m just overwhelmed at the moment, it’s relentless, all day every day and now the youngest is fully communicative they bouncing off each other and it’s just bloody awful. Nothing is fun anymore.