Struggling with my daughter's hurtful behaviour and its effect on us.

[Daughteradhd]

Hi, I really need some advice about the relationship with my 10 year old daughter. She was diagnosed ADHD last year but I suspect like myself she is AuDHD.

Ever since she was about 5 she has told me in outbursts that she doesn’t like me as a mum. She now usually says something along the lines of, what kind of mother are you, I wouldn’t expect a mother like you to care about me etc etc. She has no friends in school because she is verbally unkind in situations and now no one wants to be her friend. She hates her sister. I am really really struggling and I hate this but it is effecting the way I feel about her. She always ruins any family day out because something will happen and she will then become very dark and unkind. I have fought so hard for her, to get her the diagnosis, to explain to everyone so they understand and make allowances. But at the end of the day people don’t want her around because she becomes verbally very scathing.

The words she says to me are now starting to affect our relationship. I’ve tried so hard to just accept it’s part of the ADHD. I myself have the same thing but I’ve never been unkind to people. She keeps making comments about me being a rubbish mum because I don’t make her feel the way she wants. But I literally can’t, I have another child. She wants me to love her more than her sister but I can’t as I love them equal. She looks me in the eye and just tells I am not like a proper mum, like everyone else has. But then everyone else’s children aren’t doing this. There isn’t a single person who she likes because eventually they do something to upset her and she burns the bridge.

I don’t know what is happening. Does anyone have any advice?

I know you probably need the break, but does your daughter want to go to her Dad's?
(I say this with personal experience.)
Your situation sounds very hard. You are a good mum and you must remember that and be nice to yourself, give yourself grace and also treats. All the best.

I think we are our both worst enemies. Me and her are exactly the same. I’m adult but I still have all the same emotional dysregulation issues as she does although I don’t have a PDA profile and I don’t hit out. I have a fawn response. I look at relationships with the same bewilderment as she does. I know exactly how she feels to not know or not be able to do the special rules others can do. I am her friend and I wish she would view me as such. But unfortunately because I do ask her to do things she hates me for it. I don’t think it’s unreasonable what I am asking . For example screaming in your sisters face the moment her toe steps in your room is not acceptable. She doesn’t want her ever to go in her room or be in her space and this isn’t doable. Every single morning they are screaming at each and I need to get them to school and nursery. I get wound up with all the noise.

My daughter is an adult now and still makes huge errors of judgement in terms of what she says to other people. She is diagnosed asd/ PDA and also adhd - she is black and white about everything and thinks that being honest is a virtue. And despite years of help with this (she went to an asd school), she is still the same - the only saving grace is that she now has much more control over who is in her life (she works with children so that helps).

It is so hard when they are at school in particular and are expected to develop appropriate social skills.

Does she get speech and language support at school?

No she doesn’t get any speech or language support. He communication skills are excellent but she is most definitely black and white. At the moment if someone gets something or someone has something nice said about them it instantly means she is not. She lives in the exact moment and nothing that happened before that moment has any baring on her thoughts. I could have loved her and given her my time for days but as soon as I give it to someone else I am the worst. If a friend plays with someone else then she is heart broken and will blow the friendship up. I don’t think she is trying to punish it’s just in that moment her she feels in that second is the way she goes forward.

My DD17 has ASD, my DD15 has AuDHD. They were both diagnosed in their teens. I would recommend the very easy to read ‘How to Talk To … Siblings Without Rivalry’, it was a game changer in terms of managing the family dynamic. I also read this story to my DDs quite often …

I get it with my eldest, the youngest is 3.5 and she can be really annoying. But she has learned a lot of behaviour off of my eldest and now copies. For instance shouting get out of my room or you aren’t in my family or I hate you. I talk to my eldest but her response is always well I didn’t ask for a sister and I don’t want to be her friend, she is stupid and annoying.

Speech and language covers social skills- it is not just about how we talk. Speak to school about it. They might be able to get her into social skills groups.

We had a similar situation, maybe not has hard but almost ( and at times the same as you described it) when my kid was that age, she is Audhd. Difficulty with friends, very hard with me etc etc. We were bracing ourselves for the teen years but actually she is doing better now than she ever did when she was younger. She had therapy at that age and it really helped. She also finally got a group of similar friends and she was so happy that she decided to change her ways in order to keep them. I can say that there can be light at the end of the tunnel but you cannot do it by yourself, you need professionals. Please don’t take what she says personal, she is only trying to express her unhappiness. I hope this helps

Who refuses to talk about meds, your daughter aged 10. Don't you have any boundaries with her?

This might be useful to you : https://www.tiimoapp.com/resource-hub/audhd-autistic-adhd-explained

You are mentioning a lot of things that you can't deal with. Do you have her in therapy?

You will get through this. So many Mums here have told you how they had similar situations but it all came right in the end. I agree with every one of the comments above about ways of defusing situations BUT I do feel there are some things about who is boss in your house She has no right to decide whether her sister is allowed in or not. It's your house therefore your decision. Gentle parenting has to be out in hold in your situation. Professional help is definitely required and I hope you can find it. There are so many possibilities in ND so I really hope you get good help.

Literally the fact she has no friends is maybe why she is so angry?
That must be so hard, spending all day at school 5 days a week with no friends.
Shes taking it out on you as you’re her mum.
Maybe consider alternate schooling ?
Some kids aren’t built for the standard schooling system.

ask her how she'd like it if she was a mother and her child treated her like this. Make her think.
The saying if you've got nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all springs to mind also.

I have a House full of autistic/ADHD women and girls here, I wasn’t diagnosed until after most of my kids, my eldest is now an adult, the others are senior school age and there have been times that I’ve wanted to hide under the bed instead of dealing with the kids meltdowns and behaviours like you describe but one concept arrived in our house about 8 years ago and it has changed everything.

’your feelings are valid but your behaviour is not.’

its a simply concept in many ways but honestly it changed things almost overnight.

i stopped saying ‘it’s only a bump’ or ‘it’s nothing to worry about’ or ‘don’t panic’ or any of the other things that neurotypical kids often find reassuring and instead I started to actually acknowledged the pain or the problem, validated their feelings about it, comforted them anyway I could, all of which increases feelings of trust and safety in the autistic/ADHD brain, but I also addressed bad behaviour around the incident and refused to be treated badly by them.

’I know you feel unhappy when I play with your sister but that doesn’t mean that you can call me names. Your feelings are valid but your behaviour isn’t so we need to work out a better plan’’

‘I’m sorry you banged your toe, I know it must really hurt, I’m here for a cuddle if you want one but not while you’re being mean to me. Your feelings are absolutely valid but we have to get better at how we communicate then so we don’t make other people sad.

If you medicate the ADHD, she won't be trying and failing to mask both autism and ADHD any more. You can always stop the meds if they make things worse.

OP things are very similar here. The black and whiteness, the vile behaviour (mostly saved for us at home), the pressure cooker/eggshells and the understanding from being similar (but presenting very differently) myself. Also the distress about the impact on our relationships. Its dark. And i get the ‘nothing works’ thing - anyone who thinks a 10yo simply doesn’t get to decide and its as simple as that hasnt met PDA. Our dog is a saving grace - totally unconditional emotional support for everyone in the family and incontrovertible evidence we are all in fact lovable. We have found some hope in NVR and spin offs like SPACE. These approaches focus on the adults and holding boundaries - the idea being that we can only really control ourselves and if we can alter even small things about how we react and respond that can and does lead to changes in the dynamics. It has helped us to have guests too - behaviour is better with extras in the house, just a respite for everyone. And backup for you is important, another thing we took from NVR. Try ‘courageous parents’ by Haim Omer to see if it feels useful to you. A therapist said to me that parenting is hard, right, but in situations like ours one needs to parent like a rock climber, like an athlete - the rigour of the demands is off the charts. I found that overwhelming - but helpful to feel I was struggling because our situation is genuinely harder than for most. In the end we are just getting through it one day at a time and trying to notice and linger on the good bits when they happen. Good luck (and consider getting a dog if you can, haha).

No advice but I want to say I’m so sorry you’re going through this

My ds has adhd, I suspect also asd, and really struggles with friendships and emotional regulation.

He used to tell me he hated me, and say hurtful things like “you’re a terrible mother” etc. I have managed to reduce this significantly by always replying in a really bored tone with “Good job I love you enough for the both of us then”.

I suspect that the issue with friends and with you showing love to her sibling etc is that there is a fundamental lack of understanding about how emotions and relationships work. She thinks that there is x amount of love, so when you say you love your other child the same amount, she thinks that she is getting half. When something another does makes her feel jealous she thinks it is the fault of the other child. It is highly likely this is developmental but it can be taught.

Im a really big believer in books helping in situations like this. I’d go somewhere like a big branch of Waterstones and try to find some books (in the toddler section most likely) which reference love growing and expanding, not being finite etc. For emotional regulation we like the “how to train your dragon” series.

The other thing which we are beginning to have success with now (age 9, but possibly less effected than your daughter) is catagorising problems into glitches (child can solve themself), small problems (not urgent, child can solve, might need some help or reassurance), medium problems (need an adult to solve) and big problems (call emergency services). This is gradually reducing the meltdowns as he begins solving some things more calmly himself.

Initially he catagorised everything as a big problem and we nedded lots of humour about “let’s call the fire fighters” before he could recognise that they weren’t all severe.

I will speak to the school about more support in relationships. The school have given her quite a bit on this. The school is mainstream but it has a high intake of ND kids. The psychologist said that medication might help her impulsivity in relationships with the things she says. She does have a friendship of sorts with another asd child but that is currently rocky. The asd child has been overwhelmed a bit and hasn’t wanted to play with her (or anyone) my daughter is in hysteria about it. I’ve warned her that if she is unkind then she could loose the friendship, sometimes people need space etc.

I agree, sounds like an attachment issue. Desperately wanting love/connection, pushing it away, feeling angry because she's not feeling it and taking it out on you. What was family life like when she was a baby op?

Could you look into private therapy for her or family therapy for the 3 of you? I think whatever the fundamental issue is, she needs some sort of therapy to get to the bottom of it.

Well this morning all was well until my younger one said my oldest was so pretty and gave her a hug. Oldest was shouting I don’t want a cuddle I don’t want a cuddle so she hit and pushed youngest away. I don’t really know how to deal with this. Yes she doesn’t want a cuddle but she is in the living room, a social space.

Well it cant hurt to discuss consent and personal space in an age appropriate way and model it - eg “can i give you a hug?” This is a fair boundary for a kid to want to set and stands them both in good stead - the feelings are valid but roughness would not be, as PP said

Tbh I'd look at this dynamic primarily from relationships, attachment and trauma lens rather than ND (even it may be well in the mix), because I've seen it ignored so many times if ND is mentioned.

You've mentioned experience of abuse from ex, you daughter sees her father every other week. Ongoing dynamic is difficult. Focusing on her, rather than seeing her behaviour as symptomatic and reflecting a wider family dynamic, is only keeping her, and others, stuck imho.

Her teacher has said that most of the problem is coming from her lack of empathy. She is simply unable to comprehend the other person. She is stuck in me mode all the time and doesn’t consider the other person at all. So this morning instead of considering her sisters feelings so just reacts, I don’t want this and that’s all that matters. Same when she made her friend cry over showing off her new item and daughter got jealous. She was rude in return and made her friend cry, she doesn’t consider the other person. In stories she can’t tell you what the other person is feeling. But she does know her own feelings.

The psychologist and teacher etc have said that this doesn’t present as trauma. What they she said that is because she rates herself on the behaviour of people towards her and her behaviour means she gets lots of negative feedback it’s feeding the behaviour. She doesn’t want cuddles etc, she wants what she wants when she wants, she can’t share, she takes without asking, she doesn’t comprehend anyone else’s feelings. People obviously in return don’t find her someone to be around.