Struggling with my daughter's hurtful behaviour and its effect on us.

[Daughteradhd]

Hi, I really need some advice about the relationship with my 10 year old daughter. She was diagnosed ADHD last year but I suspect like myself she is AuDHD.

Ever since she was about 5 she has told me in outbursts that she doesn’t like me as a mum. She now usually says something along the lines of, what kind of mother are you, I wouldn’t expect a mother like you to care about me etc etc. She has no friends in school because she is verbally unkind in situations and now no one wants to be her friend. She hates her sister. I am really really struggling and I hate this but it is effecting the way I feel about her. She always ruins any family day out because something will happen and she will then become very dark and unkind. I have fought so hard for her, to get her the diagnosis, to explain to everyone so they understand and make allowances. But at the end of the day people don’t want her around because she becomes verbally very scathing.

The words she says to me are now starting to affect our relationship. I’ve tried so hard to just accept it’s part of the ADHD. I myself have the same thing but I’ve never been unkind to people. She keeps making comments about me being a rubbish mum because I don’t make her feel the way she wants. But I literally can’t, I have another child. She wants me to love her more than her sister but I can’t as I love them equal. She looks me in the eye and just tells I am not like a proper mum, like everyone else has. But then everyone else’s children aren’t doing this. There isn’t a single person who she likes because eventually they do something to upset her and she burns the bridge.

I don’t know what is happening. Does anyone have any advice?

She wants to do only what she wants when we are out. Be the first, be upfront, have the most, she pushes and shoves her younger sister out the way and treats her like an annoyance. We are very fair and she gets to do what she wants but then it’s fair someone else gets a turn. The problem then is she will deliberately spoil it when it’s not her turn. I have ptsd now going out, but we can’t stay in either as it’s war in the house.

I think there is a few things to consider here

Her behaviour is shit and she is communicating very deep feelings of unworthiness with them. She feels less than so to reverse that she tries to put people around her down.

Her behaviour is contributing to how she is being perceived by others. In other words if a person cannot make themself attractive to others then they don’t attract others. Often that takes a lot of personal work and I’m not talking about people pleasing or being manipulatively agreeable here I’m talking about cultivating positive personality traits and working in managing emotions so negative traits don’t spill over inappropriately when she is under stress. She needs to do a tonne of work on this particular aspect of her own personality. That is a choice she will have to make nobody can decide to do this for her.

A parent cannot take on this role of supporting her through these changes at this level without some really good and trusted outside support. I think she needs a really good therapist.

I want our family to survive this but it’s tearing us apart. It’s awful living like this. Her behaviour towards her sister is so sad. She views her as this disgusting thing that just gets in the way. She puts her hands on her all the time. I bad her to her room but she refuses to go to it and I can’t move her. It’s just a war.

This is how it feels to me. She has never ever been treated less than and I feel like this is all come about because of the way her brain is wired. She does behave antisocially so she won’t be perceived as kind and sharing and nice to be around. I have tired over and over to talk to her about this but she doesn’t want to share, she needs to have full control. I know most of this is due to the ND. I have feelings of inadequacy myself due to being undiagnosed for so long. She is attacking the very people who love her and are her people. Nothing is ever enough, because in the moment she is black and white.

If I cuddle or laugh my younger daughter she will run off crying. Saying I don’t love her. It is so untrue. I can’t give love to anyone without that meaning l don’t love her. They are now at a stage as youngest is fully talking that they argue constantly about the fact I only love them and not the other. Then they both crying. It is ridiculous, they are family.

Love is what you do, not what you feel. She's only ten but this behaviour is not excused or explained by ADHD.

As for "less than" I think it's more likely she is deeply egocentric and experiences narcissistic rages when she doesn't get her way.

I know that's not an answer but I don't think you can fix it by trying to beef up her already chunky ego.

I know with my eldest also with ASD who went through a phase of dealing with serious feelings or rejection and unworthiness that me trying to help her as a parent made her feel worse. She was never poorly behaved but it was an incredibly challenging time.

DD took to therapy with the right therapist like a duck to water. We got nowhere with a wishy washy therapist before the good one and her friend with ASD dismissed out of hand the one who worked so well with our DD so the right therapist is incredibly personal.

I think coming from miles behind in terms of emotional development yet with the verbal skills that often match age it puts kids who are ND at a serious disadvantage. Your DD has the narcissism of a 2 year old, that is normal behaviour for a 2 year old but the verbal skills of her age so instead of lying on the floor tantrumming she is exploding with her words. She feels the disparity between her and her peers, she feels less than and she gets that reflected back to her as a consequence of her behaviour.

This reminds me very much of another recent thread, IIRC that one seemed to suggest OCD/intrusive thoughts

It’s just so sad. I wish I could do something so that I just stopped feeling anything. But I am affected by the words she says. They hit me exactly where it hurts.

Yes of course it is hurtful for you, you are human too 💐💐

Thank you. I feel so awful for having feelings like this about my own daughter. I remember when she was small, she was so sweet, now it’s just so different.

I wouldn’t jump to personality disorder etc here, plus, she is ten. She has a lot of developing to do, and PD isn’t diagnosable in this age group for that reason. Many autistic females are misdiagnosed with BPD. It’s certainly not a diagnosis I’d leap to or want to push for my child.

To me, this sounds more like meltdown, and beyond her control. Not behavioural. In which case the way to deal with it is more about prevention and finding ways to meet her sensory needs so she doesn’t become so overwhelmed that meltdown occurs. Meltdown is neurological, not behavioural, more comparable to a seizure than a tantrum. She will likely feel shame around it afterwards and internalise the feeling that she is a bad person, etc.

You can’t take it personally. My child says she hates me all the time when in meltdown and it doesn’t occur to me for a minute that she actually does hate me.

I don’t think all is lost here.

She is clearly really struggling and while that does not mean you can tolerate this behaviour from her it stops feeling so personal when you realise it is not about you or your parenting at all.

One other thing I did was I changed completely how I interact with my daughter, before I listened to her with endless empathy and validated her every emotion but she was absolutely draining me without addressing the stuff in herself, so venting constantly but unproductively.

I just stopped engaging with her that way and I had a very tough conversation where I laid out that I was trying to help her but it wasn’t working and I didn’t feel that how we engaged helped her at all so I wasn’t willing to keep doing it the same way. Then I changed what I was doing, completely night and day. No more long rants not considering my feelings, no more dealing with her spiralling just observing out loud, asking her what she was looking for from me in that moment and making her responsible for her own development. That coupled with the excellent therapist has changed things around completely.

I think you might need to look at the dynamics of how you are interacting with her.

Jesus. I hope the op ignores this.

This sounds PDA-like, with an anxiety driven total need for control and autonomy. Have you looked at the PANDAS approach?

@DuskOPorter has excellent advice!

I don’t think that is an unfair assessment. The child is completely underdeveloped emotionally. Narcissism is a completely normal phase of childhood development and that is why it is not diagnosed as a disorder until adulthood. Children with ASD struggle with developmental stuff like social understanding and emotional dysregulation and they do behave emotionally like toddlers because they are so far behind in this development. But children with autism can and do develop at their own pace.

As a mum of a daughter with autism and adhd I’m sorry you are going through this. It could just be a teen reaction.

I don’t know how to stop her from taking it personally, especially when this affects every relationship with a human in her life. She is definitely not in control but it also feels like she punishes people for the way they make her feel. This is what the teachers have observed. For example a peer had new water bottle that they showed in the class and instead of saying that was nice my daughter said something unkind and accused the person of trying to make her jealous and made the other girl cry. My daughter was then happy.

I suppose they learn to manage it and mask it. I do feel that is what I have done in my life. I feel a lot like my daughter at times but I know it’s not nice to behave in such a way. Thank you for your advice, I will have a good read. This is all so hard. I walk on eggshells all the time.

I am desperately worried about her and how she will be as she ages. How will she adapt in this world with all these feelings she has.

I'm more worried about the lack of support for you and your family. Are you alone in all this? You said you left her father but she behaves better with him. Is this because he has better boundaries with her and doesn't allow her to behave like this, maybe there are better consequences there and no reward for bad behaviour? How about your parents, siblings, in-laws, anybody to help you out?

She has been like this since she was small. As a 5 year old on holiday she would see another family and say I’m going with them for another mum. These words have just got worse.

He is quite scary and she is in her words too afraid at her dads. He would simply not accept it and I know how loud he shouts. I don’t want to scare her into complying. We do need support. There isn’t really anyone family wise to help. This morning was just a on other meltdown. She stubbed her toe and yeah I said it hurts and I’m sorry. But she went on to say what kind of mum are you for making me carry on. All the way in the car about me as a mum etc. The teachers then gave her lots of attention because she was crying. I just sat in the car and cried.

..and your reaction should have been: "OK, go then, bye!"

My sister was like this. Constant fight since toddlerhood till early 20s.
But she could never get her way at home or at school - no always meant no.
And nobody relented when she argued, we just grey-rocked her. All the blackmail from her side and reaction-seeking behaviour we would just ignore.
I remember when she was 3 she was walking 20 meters away screaming behind us while going home because mum didn't buy her a candy in the shop. People were staring at us and just rolled their eyes because of her bratty behaviour. Today we are told this is all a disability and we must make such children happy and just give them what they want.
When she was a teenager, she came back home drunk and vomited from her window. So the worst is still ahead of you, I'm afraid.
Seriously, you just need to stop being so emotional around her, and worry that she doesn't love you, etc. because she feels that you are the weak one and she can wind you around her finger.
BTW my sister has matured and grown out of all this, settled with a man and kids and a stable job and a house. But she was most probably at least ADHD by today's standards.