MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

It's so bizarre isn't it wellies. They've literally got no idea what normal is. It's so weird they way they can use all manner of abuse but think that because they avoid one particular form everything is great. I'm certain mine think I've pulled away "for no reason" and are going around playing the victim. I had what I suspect was attempted hoovering by a flying monkey who I think has no idea they were being used. This was around Christmas, so I ended up dealing with the flying monkey (who has never given me any trouble) and dodging the narcs. I still don't think they realise I'm NC with Narc1 although they can tell something's up in general. It's taken them around a decade to notice that it's serious though. I think before it was put down to a "me" issue, like I was always having a bad moment or something. Apart from that it's like I don't exist anyway, Christmas seems to be The Big Performance in my FOO, like everyone coming together at that time proves we're normal, I guess. I'm glad you're holding firm against their relentless bullying to be everyone's carer. That has got to be so exhausting. I had an ex who would do similar, state his opinion over and over again to try to browbeat me into agreeing. I just became silent around him most of the time in the end since everything I said was wrong. Are you forced into hanging up on yours to end the conversation or do they ever stop of their own accord?

@SamAndAnnie Yes, it's bizarre how they will twist reality to convince themselves that they are the normal/reasonable ones. Mine are convinced that the fact we have 'disagreements' is a sign that we are actually closer than families who never fall out. They don't seem able to see that what's happening in our family is not a simple disagreement and we're not discussing it and working through it/agreeing to disagree in a healthy way.
Re- hanging up to end the discussion. Mine will never choose to end the discussion and move on to a less contentious subject. In the past they have always either hung up on me (for refusing to see sense) or I've had to hang up on them. Sometimes I can now distract DM by ignoring her comments and changing to a subject I know she likes (eg. what would GB2's child like for his birthday etc). It's become obvious since DF died that he often acted as a sort of peace-maker, preventing DM from contacting me as often as she'd like to complain at me and appeasing GB2 by doing what he wanted.
They don't like to acknowledge that I have simply had enough. Anything I say/do that does not fit with their idea of how I should behave or the image that we should present of the family is blamed on DH's influence. Apparently I am being brainwashed by him and MIL, who are 'twee', 'thick', 'wet' and 'don't live in the real world'. The latter is GB2's favourite insult- he doesn't see how hypocritical this is coming from and ex-addict who lived rent free with his mummy until his mid 40s.

Anything I say/do that does not fit with their idea of how I should behave or the image that we should present of the family is blamed on DH's influence.

Sometimes I think this is common in normal families too, but I don’t suppose I would know? Anyway, mine do this too. Like I can’t think there is anything wrong with their behaviour without someone giving me that idea. My dad has behaved terribly towards my DH over the years, and my DH has been nothing but caring and helpful to them (until he had enough of being insulted). It’s funny as well that they say he is driving a wedge between us, but he has never tried to stop me from seeing them - the only thing that makes me not want to see them is their own hostility and lack of understanding.

@Eeriefairy It's very odd with my DM/GB2. Usually to his face they are nothing but pleasant to/about DH and MIL (there are a couple of notable exceptions for GB2 which we are all supposed to have forgotten). But when DH isn't there they are vile about them and act like they expect that I won't have told DH. We have joked about putting some of the insults GB2 says about DH on a T shirt and wearing them when we visit, just to see him squirm.
I think in their minds I 'must' be loyal first to them, so I can't possibly go home and tell DH what they say and also that I 'must' really agree with them but am being controlled by DH.

Another day that I didn't visit my mum. I've had a great day out in the sunshine with my partner which has done me the world of good. I still feel guilty though. I did send my mum a message to say I'm not coming today, just saying I don't feel well still. I just want to stop feeling guilty.

@formalwellies I remember your idea of getting your DH to slip their quotes into conversation out of context which is another good one if the T-shirts are too much hassle! It’s insulting really the idea that our minds are being controlled, but mine seem to see it as excusing me rather than insulting me 🙄

In all honesty, I haven’t told my DH everything that has been said about him behind his back, as it wouldn’t help anything and they have said enough to his face. I haven’t told him what my dad said about CSA not being what harms the child - I know my dad doesn’t even believe this himself, it was just him reaching for a reason to make me in the wrong/make me “bring the family back together” if that makes sense - but I know my DH would just be furious if I told him, and what would it achieve? I’ve only seen them twice since he said that - Mother’s Day for a couple of hours, and then about 4 weeks later for a couple of hours to see my brother (who lives in another country, I wonder why!)

@catshatsandchats that sounds like a lovely day. I think the guilt is just your lifetime of conditioning to put your mum first, so it’s just not comfortable for you yet.

The Head of The Family BS. FFS. I have an idea for you regarding the nasty comments from,DM & GB2 about your husband…print the nasty comments on beermats and scatter them around DM’s house. They are obviously threatened by him and your strong relationship and solid family unit.

I wonder if the mind-control-by-DP thing that seems to be a common theme with them is because they can't see us as our own person but only as an extension of themselves. Maybe seeing us behaving autonomously is to them the same as if their right leg was hopping about all over the place doing its own thing? So since that can't possibly happen because their legs are attached to their body, neither can we possibly be autonomous because we're supposedly attached to them or a part of them, so if we're not doing as they want it must be because someone else has control over us? It's just really really weird how none of these relatives can accept we hold different views to them. It's not even about them believing us to be wrong, it's that for some reason they think us incapable of independent thoughts. Odd in the extreme.

@Eeriefairyit definitely is, I still feel that way and I'm fighting with it. My initial reaction to your comment was "oh but everyone puts their parents first"! But maybe we don't need to.

The situation I find myself in today is that essentially I married my narcissistic mother in the form of DH

I only just realised - after 23yrs - tthat I will never get the care I need from.him.

When DM died 15yrs ago, I only felt relieWhen on that day I had to ask DH for a hug. I had to ask him.

I have been so blind.. i just carried on the pattern with him.

Now I can see finally because I read a book called Unfawning. Its a really good read and spoke to me so clearly.

Fawning is how I cope witj my childhood and.ahit marriage, it has kept my core safe and stopped me from.breaking completely. .

My eyes are finally open to the overfunctioning I have been doing manically, for decades, and all because of that childhood damage.

I am beginning to piece it all together trust myself and set
boundaries. Its hard work for me.

I wanted to share that book because reading it it has cracked the code for me.

cats the only time emotionally healthy people put their parents first automatically is if their parents have care needs and they are their carer. Even then if the person has children the children have to come before the parents. Their own needs have to get a look-in somewhere too, otherwise they'll burn out.

Other than that it's on an individual-situation basis where someone might choose to put the parent first, because eg it's their birthday so they go do the thing they find boring but that their parent wants to do, or because they want to do something nice for their parents because they love them and it doesn't cause them any harm themselves to put their parents first that time, or because their parent fell and broke a leg so of course they're driving them to hospital and telling work they can't come in today (even though it harms them from a days lost wages).

That's totally different from visiting every Sunday just because your parents have decided that's how they want it to be, when you hate doing it, dread going and it spoils your entire week every week because you're either anticipating it or recovering from it. Who gave them the right to rule your life in that way? Nobody, that's who, they don't have that right.

Emotionally healthy people aren't going through life dancing to their parent's tune, especially when they're children. Doing what you're told as a child isn't the same thing as putting your parents first at all times. Emotionally healthy children do as they're told because there are punishments if they don't and because what's being asked isn't unreasonable or harmful to them. Not because they're tiptoeing around their parents, managing their parents emotions, to try to keep some semblance of peace in the home and there'll be world war three if they fail.

A parent (who you aren't a carer for) is not a dependent like a child or a pet is. They are your equal, like a friend or colleague, not someone who should always come first just because.

When they're not emotionally healthy people, they train us as children to set our own needs aside, putting their needs front and centre of our lives at all times. It's a form of neglect/abuse, instead of them meeting our needs we're meeting theirs. Then we grow up as emotionally unhealthy people too, but in a different way to them. We have to learn to overcome this childhood conditioning as part of healing ourselves. It's not easy.

@ManchesterMonkey I like your beer mats idea:) I know I won't do the beer mats/T shirts etc but it does provide some light relief to think about what GB2's reaction would be. You're completely right, they do feel threatened by the fact that I have a strong family unit of my own now. When DH and I first got together we were in our 20s and a bit clueless, so I think they assumed DH would be an extension of the role they saw for me and wouldn't have any opinions of his own (a bit of a useful idiot).

@SamAndAnnie I think you've definitely got a point about our FOO seeing us as and extension of them, and therefore incapable of disagreeing unless someone else is making us. I think this is exacerbated by the fact that my FOO in general believe that there are 2 ways of doing things/viewing things; 'Our' way, or the wrong way. Having been brought up to do things 'Our' way (= the right way) it goes without saying that I would not have just started doing things the 'wrong' way unless I was being misled/coerced. My DM also has extremely strong views on the way that other members of the extended family/friends behave and (although she will not say it to their faces) believes that those closest to them should correct them. For example, a few years ago a cousin (in her 30s) mentioned in conversation that her family (including her 6 month old) were going to Spain for a Summer holiday. DM does not think that it is safe to take babies outside the UK, so after hearing this she quizzed the cousin's Mum about how the baby would be kept safe and complained for months about how irresponsible it was and that the Mum should have 'made her see sense'. Of course, since she's such a lovely lady, to their faces her response was along the lines of 'Oh it's not how we did things, but as long as you know how to keep safe that's all that matters'. The only difference is that with me she doesn't feel the need to pretend to be pleasant about it and sees it as her duty to let me know I'm wrong.

Thank you @SamAndAnniethat makes sense now.

I thought I had a duty to care for her and to spend time with her. She was very close to her own mum, although rarely lived nearby due to all the moving around. I actually asked her about the moving around recently, if she realised what it was like for me to start new schools, make new friends every few years. She said it's just the way it was. She didn't understand. I think that was what made me finally realise, I don't want to spend any time with her and decided to take some time out. Now I never want to go back.

They've called me selfish several times for various reasons. I believed I was selfish. I felt guilty if I didn't do what she wanted. She's quick to cry too which is upsetting.

I've messaged a few times, said I'm not well - kind of true - and she's replied briefly. I can cope with that, just.

@formalwelliesmymum is very judgemental of how other families behave too. And such a gossip. I'm so tired of it. I'd taken to muttering under my breath rude comments about her - her hearing isn't great! That's not a good sign is it!?!

@catshatsandchats It sounds like you're gradually seeing more and more ways in which your upbringing and the expectations on you as an adult have not been 'just what families are like'. I don't think this is unusual. After a lifetime of being trained to put others first and accept things as 'just how things are' it's hardly a surprise that you don't recognise everything for what it is immediately. I think you're very wise to take some time away to get your head together and concentrate on yourself without having to rush in to a decision about how your future relationship looks, or having to make a big announcement.
I can see that moving around for work etc for some people can be unavoidable and/or what they genuinely think is best for the family at the time but your mum's reaction to you wanting to talk about it speaks volumes. I think a parent with a healthy relationship with their child would want to understand how their child felt, and feel sorry that they were not happy even if they hadn't realised at the time.
If you do decide to stay in contact with your parents, and offer them any help etc remember that you hold all the cards. You do not owe them your time or support and there is nothing they can do to force you to give it. I know only too well that this is easier said than done, but when that dawned on me I found it very freeing.

Oh gosh, the opinions! On everything and everyone. I can relate to that so much.

Narc1 was trying but ultimately failing to keep their opinions to themselves since they didn't want me to up and leave. But Narc2 always felt fine to voice theirs because they DGAF about me, but only when Narc1 wasn't there.

💡 I've just realised why Narc2 has apparently gotten worse. Someone got switched out. The old someone obviously counted as an audience and the new someone perhaps doesn't, I've seen a nasty side in them too. Narc2 goes on best behaviour when there's any audience, including Narc1, which is why I always thought they weren't as bad as Narc1, but now I realise they are. They haven't gotten worse, it's that I saw them, at the end, without anyone who counts as an audience being present.

I feel grateful not to be a narcissist. I'd truly hate to be inside their heads, getting bothered about the way others choose to live their lives all the time.

It's just my mum, we lost my dad 11 years ago. I have very mixed feelings about him too, due to his drinking and the phobia that I developed as a result of seeing that. I'm not being over dramatic either, it's a proper phobia regarding vomiting, emetaphobia, due to seeing him vomit when I was young after drinking a lot.

Yes I'm starting to see that I've been manipulated in some ways. I'm still struggling with feelings of guilt, but I'm working on it and posting on here and reading everyone's posts is really helpful.

Dsis was always very opinionated and judgmental i think it’s jealousy. Looking back dm was the same made lots of sarcastic comments and i think that was out of jealousy as well. Usually directed at dmil who dm got on well with I just used to roll my eyes at dm I never called her out on it.

Thankfully I am adopted so I haven’t inherited that personality trait as people who are contented and secure don’t feel the need to put others down to make themselves look better

Their way or the wrong way 👏 yes, this is very true. I always thought my parents were perfectionists. There was always a “this is the best way to do xxx” and that would be the way we were expected to do everything. Now I have my own kids, I do see it as a bit controlling. I try to encourage my DDs even if their efforts are less than perfect I just tell them they’ve done a good job and thank them etc.

I didn’t really think too much about the fact that this carried on into adulthood. A few years ago my dad criticised the way I was washing the dishes, as it was using more water than he would (I prefer to rinse the detergent off of everything before it goes on the drainer). And I basically said “Well, I pay for it.” And he did drop it, but he seemed a bit put out. But why comment in the first place? It’s not like it’s really important how I wash my dishes. It is overstepping. If they wouldn’t tell any other adult what to do then why are they doing it to me or my DSis?

My DH’s actual NPD mum does tell other adults, including strangers, what to do with their lives etc. Like her authority extends to everyone on the face of the earth. Interesting @SamAndAnnie she was the same about hiding her behaviour in front of a certain person (her new partner) after years of being openly narcissistic in front of me and basically everyone else. It was quite weird for a while having her suddenly pretending to be nice. The mask has dropped even in front of him now, as I suppose it would have to because she’s not going to be actually nice to him is she?

I've had such a rubbish 24 hours. My neighbour decided to messenger me complaining about my cats making a noise at 11.30 pm. Demanding I get rid of them. I told her I was looking for somewhere else to live but until then the cats will be here. For background, she's stolen my parcels several times, I have Ring doorbell proof but she denies it. She's damaged my property and sent malicious letters about me to the council. Then she wants to be best friends in-between. I was so upset last night at the attack, I couldn't sleep. I've spent all day moving my bedroom into the small spare room so I'm at least not above her bedroom. I hear her too but don't complain. She slams the bathroom door at 1 in the morning.

I have calmed down now, but will put a lot of effort into trying to find somewhere else to live.

Hello 👋

I'm new here, just need to rant really...

I grew up with a single parent, alcoholic mum who has a lot of mental health issues. My childhood was pretty lonely and difficult, no dad around, we didn't have much money and I had no brothers or sisters. My mums drinking was pretty bad, she drank everyday, would get very depressed and cry most evenings, fall out with neighbours on our estate and had a long list of weird/horrible boyfriends. During my teenage years she wasn't really about/home, she would go out for days on end and I was just left to it. When I was 15 she had a breakdown and was sectioned after trying to set fire to her at the times partners house. She then went into rehab and I stayed with my nan for a while. I went back home once she was sober but our relationship has never been great. I stayed at home throughout my degree and moved out about ten years ago. I now have a lovely husband and 2 small DC.

She has been in/out of AA for years and has occasional relapse of drinking- when she does she gets quite abusive to me. She now has a nice husband who I really like. But I feel our relationship is just toxic. She can on occasions be kind and helpful and wants to see the kids.
I feel she doesn't listen to me as a parent which annoys me, for example asking her not to vape Infront/around my kids, she still does it. She gives them junk food/sweets (giving a 3 year old lemonade and saying I'm boring).

Im also struggling to get along with her as a person, she has turned extremely right wing, racist and full of hate. She is currently unemployed and spends alot of time watching very negative news channels and weird AI videos, she blames everything that is wrong with the world on a certain group of people. Which I hate hearing and every conversation I have with her leads back to this topic. I also don't want my kids hearing this as they get older.

At the moment I'm not really speaking to her. I'm just undecided wether to go no contact or minimal but I just dread seeing her, whenever I do see her I'm left feeling rattled for days. I really like my step dad so sad for him.

Just any words of wisdom would be nice x

I’d stay well away from her and your stepdad because he is her enabler. Both are not good role models for either you or your children.

I know that this is the right thing to do, it's just hard to do. I have no other family (apart from my nan who is very old and feels sorry for her as she plays the victim). I don't know how to go about cutting her out my life, she messages me quite often, I don't really reply, sends the kids random cards and she doesn't live far away.

Better to stand alone than to subject yourself and your kids to toxic relations. If your husband’s relations are nice and importantly emotionally healthy then I would concentrate on them. You don’t have to reply to any communications she sends you and doing so also invites a response.

The hardest things to do are often the best things to do. And again you don’t want your kids to sit there quietly absorbing such attitudes. You would not tolerate this from a friend either and your mother is no different.