Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

621 replies

AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/03/2026 09:34

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

OP posts:
catshatsandchats · 27/04/2026 15:22

I just can't shake the thought that maybe I'm just not a nice person and/or lazy. I don't like her, I don't think I've ever liked her. As she's got older it's got worse. She's so boring, a bit stupid as well. But she thinks she's this lovely caring person. But maybe it's just me, maybe I'm a horrible person.

Everyone will think I'm awful for not looking after my elderly mum.

catshatsandchats · 27/04/2026 15:30

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/04/2026 14:55

Do you think your mother feels at all guilty for how she has treated you, I doubt that very much. It can also take the simplest or banal of things done to you to finally decide on a no contact stance. That is also not done without much soul searching and the hope for change or saying sorry being finally extinguished . You have had relief these past 11 days and it’s no time at all in terms of no contact.

You feel guilt because you are a reasonable person but you cannot reason with someone like your mother who remains dysfunctional and toxic to be around. Enjoy the peace and ignore the flying monkeys she will send in to do her bidding for her. These people do not have your interests at heart nor want to hear your side of things so their opinion should be ignored.

No I don't think she feels guilty, she wouldn't think she has anything to feel guilty for, and I don't even know if there is anything. Just general not letting me grow up .. it wasn't a loving home, although she'd deny that, but they didn't touch or show much affection for each other. I wasn't taught anatomical words for body parts, it was all cutesy stuff like botty, tinkle, busy .. and my friends used to laugh at me 😞 all very prude which has definitely affected me. My dad drank a lot and was cruel when drunk, making jokes about her and later when I was an adult about me too. They bought a shop when I was 14 and had no time for me. Before that my dad was on the rigs, so away a lot of the time.

Like I say, there's no big thing. I wasn't beaten or abused or neglected.

formalwellies · 27/04/2026 15:49

@catshatsandchats It sounds like your mum brought you up to be a companion to her. Not wanting you to grow up/infantilising you as a child and now criticising you/expecting you to look after her etc seems like part of the same pattern. It sounds like (probably subconsciously) she wanted to keep you 'different' and reliant on her. When you say she didn't abuse you or neglect you I wonder if that's true. It sounds like your emotional needs were at best neglected. I've often felt the same about my parents. They had very different expectation for me and my brothers, and expected me to put up with a lot of abuse from the brothers, but I always felt that they didn't hurt me themselves and needed my support/understanding. That's why even when I went NC with GB1 and low contact with GB2 I put up with arguments and criticism from my parents about it and didn't feel I could/should cut contact with them too. After all, they'd not actually done anything wrong had they?

catshatsandchats · 27/04/2026 15:56

formalwellies · 27/04/2026 15:49

@catshatsandchats It sounds like your mum brought you up to be a companion to her. Not wanting you to grow up/infantilising you as a child and now criticising you/expecting you to look after her etc seems like part of the same pattern. It sounds like (probably subconsciously) she wanted to keep you 'different' and reliant on her. When you say she didn't abuse you or neglect you I wonder if that's true. It sounds like your emotional needs were at best neglected. I've often felt the same about my parents. They had very different expectation for me and my brothers, and expected me to put up with a lot of abuse from the brothers, but I always felt that they didn't hurt me themselves and needed my support/understanding. That's why even when I went NC with GB1 and low contact with GB2 I put up with arguments and criticism from my parents about it and didn't feel I could/should cut contact with them too. After all, they'd not actually done anything wrong had they?

Maybe she did, I don't know. I'm an only child. I had no one to play with. My parents moved around a lot due to work, so I went to 7 different schools and didn't have friends really. I used to read in my room and play with dolls but I don't remember my parents playing with me, except my dad played tennis with me a couple of times. Is that neglect?

Three years ago I moved to be closer to her so I was there if she needed me. Now she tells me visiting once a week isn't enough. When my partner and I split up briefly she said at least she'd see more of me now! Such high expectations and that's part of the problem.

Sorry I'm rambling on. I've no one to talk to about it all. My partner doesn't understand, his relationship with his mum is normal!

Eeriefairy · 27/04/2026 16:15

@catshatsandchats you’re not rambling at all. I have a feeling the longer you talk about it, the more pieces of the puzzle will come to mind. For a start, crying and telling you you’re not doing enough or coming around enough is not normal. Healthy parents expect their adult children to be living their own lives and they understand how busy life gets etc. So, that’s a bit of a problem already and you’ve only just got started.

I think formal wellies is right that your mum was infantilising you while you were growing up, maybe because she didn’t want you to grow up and move on (leaving her behind). But that’s not healthy or fair. She’s also not respecting your boundaries as an adult of how much contact you are happy to have with her.

formalwellies · 27/04/2026 16:19

@catshatsandchats It may not be 'neglect' in a form that would have lead to social services intervention etc but it's clear that your parents didn't create a warm loving home. Your Mum clearly expects you to prioritise her needs over your happiness and I think you're right to want to take a step back from this. I've found with my family I often felt instinctively that something was 'off' or that I didn't want to be around them but taught myself to over-ride that. I was conditioned to believe that thinking of my own interests was 'selfish' so I told myself that going against these instincts was 'doing what is right' instead of 'what is selfish'. As I've got older I've realised that my family was toxic and actually my instincts were self preservation. It's very difficult when you don't feel an emotional connection to a parent but feel an expectation to care for them in old age as though you do.

I've also battled with worrying what mum's extended family and other people she speaks to will think about me not rushing to care for her 24/7 like a dutiful daughter. I think that's part of having been brought up to keep up the appearance of being the perfect family when it was anything but. I've found it helps to remember that these people who may or may not judge me never questioned how I was being treated and have never once asked how I am, or how I am coping with juggling what I already do for mum with the rest of my life. I've also asked myself whether I think I would hear from any of them after the funeral if DM passed away tomorrow and the answer is definitely not.

catshatsandchats · 27/04/2026 16:21

Eeriefairy · 27/04/2026 16:15

@catshatsandchats you’re not rambling at all. I have a feeling the longer you talk about it, the more pieces of the puzzle will come to mind. For a start, crying and telling you you’re not doing enough or coming around enough is not normal. Healthy parents expect their adult children to be living their own lives and they understand how busy life gets etc. So, that’s a bit of a problem already and you’ve only just got started.

I think formal wellies is right that your mum was infantilising you while you were growing up, maybe because she didn’t want you to grow up and move on (leaving her behind). But that’s not healthy or fair. She’s also not respecting your boundaries as an adult of how much contact you are happy to have with her.

That makes sense thank you. She's told me many times that she cried when she got married as she didn't want to leave home, and still calls her parents mummy and daddy, so there's a pattern of infantaling there too.

Eeriefairy · 27/04/2026 16:27

Very well put @formalwellies and that last question of would these people get in touch after the funeral - I’d never thought to ask myself that!

ManchesterMonkey · 28/04/2026 14:36

Update on the three day visit from my brother from Europe to look after my mum, whilst I was up in Scotland with Mr Monkey to support our nephew who’s in mental health crisis. Caused by Mr Monkey’s toxic brother who walked out him when he was four and harassed him by following him around at his grandmother’s funeral. Making “amends” for 18 years of neglect and posturing as ‘loving father’. FFS. Until nephew told him to fuck off and that he would put a head through a chair, Mr Monkey’s mother and this brother were/are abusive, sociopathic toxic narcs. Utter twats.

Brother took on a lot of jobs - making the house less of a trip hazard, chucking out out of date food in the freezer, doing shopping, ensuring mum eats (she’s put on weight so is now over 8 stone), keeping the hydration regime going, being the passenger in the car to get her driving confidently again, taking her out for lunch every day, sorting out life admin and making arrangements so she could see her friend.

He really acknowledged my care and thanked me for it. He acknowledged how long I have been here and will be. He’s actually talking about getting here for the June medical appointment and escorting her to and from his home by plane so she can stay for three weeks see her grandchildren.

I am REALLY proud of myself for putting the pressure on.

formalwellies · 28/04/2026 14:57

@ManchesterMonkey I'm SO pleased to hear that he's stepping up and appreciates what you are doing.

Eeriefairy · 28/04/2026 15:15

That’s great news @ManchesterMonkey and I’m sure something of a relief too!

@formalwellies I can’t believe how much of a CF your brother is! Has he backed off insisting you should accompany him on holiday?

formalwellies · 28/04/2026 16:46

Eeriefairy · 28/04/2026 15:15

That’s great news @ManchesterMonkey and I’m sure something of a relief too!

@formalwellies I can’t believe how much of a CF your brother is! Has he backed off insisting you should accompany him on holiday?

@Eeriefairy He's still making some noises about a holiday but has now switched to claiming it's for Mum's benefit. Apparently we owe it to her because she's had holidays with all her other grandchildren but not my DC. The fact that this only happened because our parents were acting as childcare and/or paying for the holiday, or that it's a bit late now as this is the first time a holiday with my DC has ever been suggested and they are now adults, is apparently 'not the point'. He really is like a toddler throwing a tantrum and coming up with increasingly odd answers to any challenge. I remember my DC1 (then 3 and over tired) shouting that she couldn't go to bed because her pillow was 'too pink'. It feels very similar, but I feel less inclined to humour GB2.

ManchesterMonkey · 28/04/2026 18:35

formalwellies · 28/04/2026 16:46

@Eeriefairy He's still making some noises about a holiday but has now switched to claiming it's for Mum's benefit. Apparently we owe it to her because she's had holidays with all her other grandchildren but not my DC. The fact that this only happened because our parents were acting as childcare and/or paying for the holiday, or that it's a bit late now as this is the first time a holiday with my DC has ever been suggested and they are now adults, is apparently 'not the point'. He really is like a toddler throwing a tantrum and coming up with increasingly odd answers to any challenge. I remember my DC1 (then 3 and over tired) shouting that she couldn't go to bed because her pillow was 'too pink'. It feels very similar, but I feel less inclined to humour GB2.

He’s a nightmare!!!! How entitled is that? I don’t imagine your adult children want to spend a holiday with their selfish uncle. I hope you get the holiday YOU want.

Eeriefairy · 28/04/2026 18:51

formalwellies · 28/04/2026 16:46

@Eeriefairy He's still making some noises about a holiday but has now switched to claiming it's for Mum's benefit. Apparently we owe it to her because she's had holidays with all her other grandchildren but not my DC. The fact that this only happened because our parents were acting as childcare and/or paying for the holiday, or that it's a bit late now as this is the first time a holiday with my DC has ever been suggested and they are now adults, is apparently 'not the point'. He really is like a toddler throwing a tantrum and coming up with increasingly odd answers to any challenge. I remember my DC1 (then 3 and over tired) shouting that she couldn't go to bed because her pillow was 'too pink'. It feels very similar, but I feel less inclined to humour GB2.

It does sound so ridiculous as to be comical but I know it’s not always funny when this stuff is actually happening. My DH’s mum will tell any bizarre lie to try and manipulate/trick us into doing something, and then any other mental gymnastics to excuse her terrible behaviour. She’s not very often directly hostile though, so maybe that helps us to laugh about it too?

Someone recently was suggesting a bingo card that you can put up somewhere with all your ideas of what you think they might say next. Might be a fun way to make light of it for yourself? You could put “you owe it to me” “you owe it to mum” “how will we cope if you’re not there” “how could you be so selfish” “you don’t understand how hard it is” etc - tick them off each time he says one?

SamAndAnnie · 28/04/2026 20:49

catshatsandchats · 27/04/2026 15:04

I think the same tbh. She won't tell anyone because she'll be worried what they might think about her! It's all about keeping up appearances.

I also moved away when I was young and used to get told when I had to ring them, every week on Sunday, regardless whether it suited me.

I'm so angry about many many little things, but can't put my finger on anything big enough to warrant not seeing her.

You've just described her controlling your Sundays (for decades?) since you left home. That's a pretty big reason to justify feeling angry or not seeing her IMO.

The only way forward other than to cut these toxic people off is to accept the situation. Know you'll be lied about/to, know you'll be belittled/spoken badly to/bullied/told what to do and how and when to do it, know you won't enjoy interacting with the narc. Choose to accept it because you've decided that what you get (or cross your fingers and hope to get) from the situation is worth living that way.

Eg some people stay in bad/unhappy marriages for the lifestyle they have with their spouse which they couldn't have as a singleton. Essentially trading: peace, happiness, true love, healthy relationship dynamics and in some cases their physical/mental health - for money, a bigger/better home, living in a nicer area, social status, all kids being full siblings, lower working hours etc etc.

You need to decide if you want to stay in this toxic relationship with your mother due to what you're getting out of it being worth it to you. Or not.

You don't have to centre your life around her, it's not necessarily about what she deserves, it's about how you want to live your life. Going NC isn't about punishing the other person, it's about regaining your peace and personal autonomy in your own life. That's something you deserve. If you have to go NC to achieve it, who's fault is that?

SamAndAnnie · 28/04/2026 21:07

I'm so glad your brother stepped up Monkey, must be a relief to finally have a bit of support and hopefully he's got more of an idea now just how taxing this has all been for you.

Pyjamatimenow · 28/04/2026 21:09

I remember getting support from this thread about 5 years ago. Glad to see it’s still going.

formalwellies · 29/04/2026 08:40

@ManchesterMonkey Don't worry, there is absolutely no risk of me going on any holiday with GB2 ever. We have a lovely holiday booked and will very much be enjoying spending time with our young adult DC and doing absolutely no childcare. At this stage I don't think even GB2 really wants this- it's far more about control and trying to portray himself as the head of the family whilst I am the selfish uncaring silly little girl that needs to be brought in to line. He's not a quick learner...

@SamAndAnnie You put this so well- 'Going NC isn't about punishing the other person, it's about regaining your peace and personal autonomy in your own life. That's something you deserve. If you have to go NC to achieve it, who's fault is that?'

I think for lots of us our family members only seem capable of seeing how actions (or refusing to act) impact them and treat us as if this was our motivation. It's really useful to reframe this as you have done- going NC/LC or putting up stronger boundaries is about protecting ourselves. This is why their arguments against it always focus on how they feel and/or what other people will think, never what they might change to help us feel better.

catshatsandchats · 29/04/2026 19:23

SamAndAnnie · 28/04/2026 20:49

You've just described her controlling your Sundays (for decades?) since you left home. That's a pretty big reason to justify feeling angry or not seeing her IMO.

The only way forward other than to cut these toxic people off is to accept the situation. Know you'll be lied about/to, know you'll be belittled/spoken badly to/bullied/told what to do and how and when to do it, know you won't enjoy interacting with the narc. Choose to accept it because you've decided that what you get (or cross your fingers and hope to get) from the situation is worth living that way.

Eg some people stay in bad/unhappy marriages for the lifestyle they have with their spouse which they couldn't have as a singleton. Essentially trading: peace, happiness, true love, healthy relationship dynamics and in some cases their physical/mental health - for money, a bigger/better home, living in a nicer area, social status, all kids being full siblings, lower working hours etc etc.

You need to decide if you want to stay in this toxic relationship with your mother due to what you're getting out of it being worth it to you. Or not.

You don't have to centre your life around her, it's not necessarily about what she deserves, it's about how you want to live your life. Going NC isn't about punishing the other person, it's about regaining your peace and personal autonomy in your own life. That's something you deserve. If you have to go NC to achieve it, who's fault is that?

I've just always thought it's what kids did for their parents when they're old, I never questioned it. I'm getting nothing out of it! They p*&&ed away any inheritance on holidays!

Tomorrow is the day I would normally visit, again. I'm not going. I don't want to, I don't feel able to, I've enough rubbish going on in my life to listen to her again. She hasn't asked yet. I'm not even taking calls because she'll just waffle on for over an hour about nothing. I don't even want to message and say I'm not going. I'm still furious.

I don't know if she's a narc or what. I always just thought she was a boring slightly self obsessed person. I don't know how to work out what she is. I don't know how to proceed, whether to go at some point although I know I won't want to, I can't face a conversation that she won't understand, because she also will think it's normal for adult kids to look after their elderly parents.

SlowSloths · 29/04/2026 21:12

Popping back in with an amusing update regarding my mother, the one who thinks she should be the centre of everyone's universe.

We had a family wedding recently. DH's family, so nothing to do with my mother. She only found out about it a few days before and was in a flap about sending a card in time.

I had many messages - I'm sending a card - I've sent a card - have you got the card? - remember to take the card - did you give them the card? - I've not heard from them, have they really got the card?

She's then seen photos of us from the day on Facebook and has made no reference to how we look. I'm biased, but I'd say we all scrubbed up rather well! A typical grandmother would at least say 'oh aren't DGDs lovely in their bridesmaid dresses' etc. Instead she commented on the weather in the background 😂 which was cloudy and completely unworthy of any comment.

She ties herself in knots to talk about anything else because I can tell she is desperate to voice her real opinions and knows it will go down like a lead balloon.

SamAndAnnie · 29/04/2026 22:52

Wellies emotionally abusive people use silent treatment as a punishment. A lot of them also project everything about themselves onto others (whether they also recognise whatever-it-is in themselves or not). So because they'd use silent treatment to punish you, when you go NC they think that's what you're doing. NC isn't silent treatment though, but they don't realise that. NC might look similar to silent treatment at first and on the outside, but it isn't punishment and there's a totally different mentality behind it, it's purely a self-defence mechanism.

Cats you don't have to work out what she is. You can't actually diagnose someone else anyway, you're not a doctor. Even a doctor can't diagnose someone they're a close relative of or who they've never seen or spoken too. At the end of the day, whatever we work out - it's all just opinions.
You can also spend your life trying to understand someone and their behaviour but at the end of it all, what has that actually achieved, other than to use up your own time/energy/headspace? Understandably, we sometimes feel compelled to try to work them out anyway. Just don't worry about it if you can't.

All you need to work out is how you feel and why, that's the start of self-growth.

When society lays down it's expectations of how things should be and makes moral judgements, those expectations and morals are based on healthy interpersonal dynamics. The underlying implication is that doing these things doesn't harm you, so not doing them means you're selfish. Dysfunctional dynamics don't need to (and in many cases would be harmful to) follow the same pattern.

Think of something really basic and black + white. Spouses should support each other. That's generally accepted as being an accurate viewpoint in society. So when one spouse is a paedophile and has abused their children, should the other spouse support them? Hell no, they should support their kids first and foremost, their own health and wellbeing second. Any support they give their spouse should be at a distance, such as paying for them to have therapy, but only if doing so wouldn't result in any harm to the kids, like them growing up going without this-or-that (including their own therapy) to afford the therapy for the paedophile. In reality most people wouldn't have the desire to support the paedophile at all and would simply divorce them and go NC. Society wouldn't berate them for this, even though they're being an unsupportive spouse, because it's justified.

The issue comes when a person doesn't recognise that what they've gone through amounts to abuse or neglect, or just plain old disrespect, and so thinks they'd be going NC "for no reason" so doesn't feel justified in doing it. You have your reasons and they are definitely "enough" to justify it. When you're in a situation like yours where you can't look after the other person's wellbeing without harming your own, always choose you.

Selfishness is: not considering others and their needs or deciding that your wants come before their needs. Selfishness isn't the same as putting yourself first. The former is a personality flaw, the latter is necessary for health and wellbeing.

It's nuanced.
Imagine if you're all home from a family day out and you're hungry, who gets fed first, the dog and the baby or yourself? Ordinarily it's the pets and kids, because they're dependent on you, to feed yourself first would be selfishness.
But what if your situation isn't ordinary? What if you're diabetic and you know you need to eat right now because you're not feeling well? In that scenario feeding yourself first would not be selfish, your need is greater than theirs. To feed the others first would be foolishness and possibly put their safety at risk, because it would delay taking care of your needs which risks your health and you can't look after dependents if you're on the floor passed out in a diabetic coma. Whereas if they had to wait half hour to eat they'd just be more hungry and barking/crying, they'd be upset but not physically harmed. It isn't neglect.
But if you fed yourself first in the "ordinary" scenario when there's no reason you couldn't wait, then you'd be causing your dependents unnecessary distress making them wait, which is neglectful and selfish.

In your situation with your mum, she's causing you emotional harm. It's not an ordinary situation. Staying away isn't selfish, it's protecting yourself from harm. Nobody is emotionally harmed by a boring person. It's boring being around them, that's all and although it's joked about - nobody ever actually died of boredom. If you're coming away from visits and phone calls emotionally distressed, there's more going on with her than just being boring. Even if she was just boring, if there's been abuse and neglect in the past then you don't owe the person your time of being bored. If you're not responsible for the person then you don't owe them your time of being bored, even if they've never done anything to you. If your mum wants someone to talk to she can join a social group and make some friends.

Sorry, I've rambled on a bit.

Anyway, nothing has to be permanent. Give yourself breathing space. You're not setting down your entire life's behaviour going forward, engraved in stone and legally binding. You're just making a decision not to call her or visit her for now. Take it day by day or week by week. Focus on taking good care of yourself and reassess your decision as often as you feel is right.

SamAndAnnie · 29/04/2026 22:59

...my mother, the one who thinks she should be the centre of everyone's universe

Sloths this made me laugh. Can you imagine all these self-centred relatives in a room together, how blown their minds would be and the rage they'd all feel at not being anyone's centre?! I'm picturing them all self-destructing like some kind of atomic-narc-bomb from all the negativity in the air 🤣

catshatsandchats · 29/04/2026 23:30

@SamAndAnniethank you. I don’t come away emotionally distressed, but I’m struggling with a chronic illness at the moment - well, always really - and don’t have the energy to deal with her constant talking about nothing. I don’t know if I was emotionally neglected or manipulated, I just know I had a lonely childhood. I seem to be seeking permission to not visit. I know if I don’t go she won’t suffer physically, she has friends around her, in fact she has many more friends than me! She complains when I don’t visit, but she can see them any time. She has a cleaner, chiropodist, two people who will bring her shopping. She doesn’t need me for that, only to order stuff online. I know, I’m still justifying myself! I just feel there isn’t a good reason not to go, she doesn’t treat me badly, not like some of the things I’ve read on here. She just isn’t very considerate and in the past she’s done things that have upset me. We were always a family who didn’t have rows or arguments, consequently when I say something is wrong, it’s “not the done thing”. Everything was just accepted, not spoken about and life went on as usual.

Eeriefairy · 29/04/2026 23:46

@catshatsandchats

I seem to be seeking permission not to visit.

If you feel that way there must be a reason. I felt like pulling away from my family years ago for no particular reason that I could put my finger on. I thought I was just not very nice or something. It has only very recently dawned on me (probably 10-15 years later) that my whole relationship with my parents has been dysfunctional.

I think there’s something intuitive going on or you wouldn’t be on this thread at all.

We were always a family who didn’t have rows or arguments, consequently when I say something is wrong, it’s “not the done thing”. Everything was just accepted, not spoken about and life went on as usual.

This sounds extremely stifling and like you probably weren’t encouraged to express your actual feelings or develop an actual relationship where you share your real self with each other. You should be able to tell someone when something they do bothers you.

See how you get on for a bit not seeing her. Like SamandAnnie said, it’s not like you have to decide to never see her again. Just take it all a step at a time and see how each bit makes you feel.

formalwellies · 30/04/2026 10:08

@SamAndAnnie I think what you said about emotionally abusive people using silent treatment as a punishment and assuming going NC is the same thing is probably right in most cases. My family, however, NEVER used the silent treatment. Their view seems to be that Bad families stop speaking and we don't do that, so we are a Good family. Their idea of 'speaking' isn't the same as communication though. When I went NC with GB1 (for loads of reasons that I've posted about before) my parents and GB2 contacted me almost every day to tell me how wrong I was and ask if I had 'seen sense yet'. If I said I didn't want to discuss that I was told that this must mean I knew I was in the wrong, if I offered reasons they were denied/minimised. So in their minds we were always 'speaking' but they never really listened to me. Looking back there was clearly a combination of being annoyed that I was making the family look 'Bad', loss of control (they fully expected me to do what I was told) and emotional manipulation. I lived a long way from GB1 and we did not spend much time together before I officially went NC so the real difference on a day to day basis was negligible. I initially tried to quietly just not see/speak to him without a big announcement and for a while no one even noticed, but I had to tell them I was NC when DM wanted to arrange for him to stay with me for a prolonged 'rest' and pressed for a date for this to happen (after being told numerous times that I was busy etc). The same mentality applies every time I put up boundaries- they will push against them even if there is no real need and clearly little likelihood of me relenting. GB2 is currently pushing in the same way. Having been blocked by me on the phone etc (after increasing aggression) and even telling me at the time that he never wants to see me again, he takes every opportunity to pass comments via DM/shout his comments when I am on the phone to DM and make demands about me spending time with his and his family. In their mind, because THEY are still speaking to/at me this means WE are communicating and therefore a Good family.