MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

@Ladybyrd Your brother sounds very similar to mine. When he lived with my parents (in to his 40s) he would hide in his bedroom like a grumpy teenager when we visited and even ate his meals in there rather than round the table with everyone else (there was plenty of space so it wasn't that). The few times he ever sent a birthday/Xmas card or present to my DC it was money in a card that I am convinced my Mum organised, handed to me by Mum. Now that he has a small child he complains that we don't visit/arrange family days out/offer to holiday with them and says that we don't put enough effort in to the choice of gifts that we give to his child (we always ask if there are things he particularly likes/dislikes etc and we're always told no). Just before Xmas this year we were all at mum's and I noticed that when he left he had not taken the bag of gifts from me for his child. I called him back for it and he said something like 'We'll leave it here, it will just be some shite he's already got anyway.'
@SamAndAnnie 's post about reasons to go NC is worth discussing. Many of us who grew up on dysfunctional families and chose to go NC (as I did with GB1 but for complicated reasons don't feel I can quite with GB2 whilst mum is still alive) put up with many of these things for a very long time. I know that when I went NC with GB1 the rest of the family felt that it was over a very small thing and utterly unreasonable. To some extent this was because they looked to blame one trigger, rather than looking at the full picture and also partly because they were so used to me just putting up with whatever was thrown at me that to them it seemed unreasonable when I refused to continue. I wonder if LadyByrd may be in a similar situation where you've put up with this treatment for so long that they just expect that they can keep doing it and carry on as if nothing has happened. When I decided to go NC with GB1, there was a lot of push back from the wider family and it helped me to remind myself that if they were really the caring, supportive family that they claimed to be they would recognise that I was being mistreated and support me in removing myself from the situation. I am LC with GB2 now and personally have found that this is difficult, as there is still an expectation of involvement and anger when I stick to boundaries. NC was harder initially but less stressful longer term.

I know. I have a very small family, H’s family is narcissistic and they say make friends and they turn out to be narcs! I give up, I’m just going to grow flowers and pester H to buy a dog!

@formalwelliesThat is breathtakingly rude! Mine is just really underhand. As an example, when I started taking driving lessons he secretly did too, just so he could “beat” me. He’s just bizarre. But the competition apparently continues - I only realised recently. Not just in their house, but increasingly on my doorstep - now involving himself with the school I want my kids to go to. It’s a bit like a dog cocking its leg everywhere. And then dropping in useful facts about the town I’m in 24/7 into the conversation with a big grin on his face. I’m starting to think he’s half baked.

Why don’t narcs wise up? I over looked many red flags that I just gave the benefit of the doubt. For example them telling me that they can’t keep friends, telling me that was due to friends not understanding. I flicked through social media and noticed that there would be flooded with someone and their kids then they’d be gone and it would be another set, just recycling through people including me now. Why don’t they see themselves? They loose good people.

@MustIgoCould be fear of abandonment in that case. Get rid of them before they get rid of you kind of thing. Matthew Perry talked about it in his memoir. He wanted to settle down but being pushed from pillar to post between his divorced parents left him afraid of rejection so he always pulled the plug first.

My older brother use to have these sort of intense but short lived friendships. In his case it was because for a short period of time he could seem charming and kind so people happily became friends with him and believed his stories. For a short period of time they would believe that he was an amazing person who just wanted to help others and had been badly treated by his former friends etc. They would usually either be drawn in to helping him with lots of things or he would be helping them. He was the sort of person who would claim people were 'like family' to him within a few weeks of meeting. After a relatively short time he would either let the mask slip and start treating them badly or would tell a few too many lies that were too obvious to ignore. They would either distance themselves or he would cut them off when they started to challenge him. Either way the official story was always that he thought they were nice people but they turned out to be users/liars/unkind etc. He invariably had his next 'friends' lined up already and part of the strategy was to complain about the old friend to the new ones. Sometimes the old/new friends knew each other and he'd get in first with his lies to discredit them and make them sound like the unreasonable ones. I know it sounds like the plot of a soap opera but I truly saw it in action and I can only assume that being at the centre of the drama was part of the appeal.

Sounds very similar. I am a bit worried about what she says because she has said things to me about others. This is one of the red flags that has caught me the past few months. Our friendship was intense. Thinking about it now it was too much and I’ve naturally backed off. Im not too bothered as I don’t want school mum friends, they all talking about each other and it’s all very situational. I suppose this is the only way they know how to have relationships. Short initial high interest that fades, perhaps co-dependant relationships. I dunno I meet my own needs and find it intrusive to have someone try and need them this way.

I wonder if narcs just have a different stimulation sensor in their brain? They aren’t interested in quality they just need to stimulate this brain, like an addiction they have no control, just after the next fix. Once a drug wears off they need to try another. Addicts are co-dependant aren’t they and need enablers etc? I get stimulation from growing things and watching them bloom, or playing with kids or painting or going on adventures.

One of the things that brought me the most peace - the next time I moved house I didn't tell them where I'd gone. The sheer relief of knowing they couldn't just decide to turn up randomly. There are other nice towns, other good schools, other suitable jobs if you can't work remotely.

Because you're normal lol. Those things bring pleasure from within you. Narcs are so damaged as people that they need constant external validation, so yeh sort of like being addicted to it, because if they don't get that external validation they can't feel good about themselves. It doesn't necessarily have to be good attention, any attention affirms their importance in others' lives.

So basically someone like my friend is over extending herself and trying to be needed because being needed makes her feel good about herself? So we are the supply of good feelings for her? That’s a lot like what a drug gives people!

I think you both make good points. I also think that someone with true narcissistic personality disorder (I'm sure by older brother had this) is only ever interested in themselves. They can understand that other people have feelings and how things might make them feel (in fact they need to do this in order to manipulate people) but don't see it as 'real'. A bit like everyone else is just a character in a story for their entertainment. They learn that the longer the relationship continues the less intense/dramatic it tends to become (but for most people it becomes stronger/longer lasting) and the harder it is for them to keep up the pretence of being kind/caring etc. So for them it becomes more effort for less reward. I think it's no surprise that a lot of these people start friendships/relationships on the basis of some sort of drama/crisis (invented or real). My brother was the same with romantic relationships. He always wanted the attention and excitement of a new relationship but it suited him to be seen as a 'family man' so there was always a wife/girlfriend plus a few on the side. Lies and deception to keep this going fuelled the excitement, and I'm sure he got a kick out of knowing that he was getting away with it. Even when he was found out, this was extra drama etc. In short, all the things that normal people would see as the mark of a good relationship (stability, trust, compatibility, reliability, real connection and friendship etc) do nothing for them- they are boring and provide no 'supply'. They don't have any use for a person who is independent and happy, unless they can get a kick out of breaking them and making them feel dependent.

Yes, basically. Even the grandiose narcs who bowl about everywhere larger than life and acting the Big I Am, don't actually have high self-esteem. Every last one of them feels small and insignificant, deep down inside where they never look (and so probably aren't aware of it). They're pointlessly trying to fill the unfillable empty void of their damaged personalities with external validation to prove to themselves that they're worthy. If your friend is a narcissist she's in the "communal" category, I'd guess. Dr Ramani has a video on it.

Winning at competition or being richer means they're "better" than others, getting one over on some unsuspecting victim means they're "cleverer" than them, being at the centre of some drama means they're "important" because everyone is talking/thinking about them, having status job/house/car/trophy partner/accomplished kids means they're "better" than others or people think of them as well-respected or they're admired for having their shit together. The list of things they can twist to tell themselves it means they're somehow "more" than someone else is endless. And they need a constant, never-ending supply of it, as evidence to themselves that it's true. Hence the anger and upset when they don't get it. The alternative is they'd have to do some self-reflection and work on themselves, accepting that they may be part of their own problems. Generally, they'd do anything to avoid that.

@SamAndAnnieThis takes me back to the triangulation thing with my mother. I can’t believe how obvious it was and I do think that and the GB/scapegoat dynamic lie at the heart of everything. My GB was telling my mother awful things about his ex - really nasty, personal comments. Then my mum was ringing up telling me. And saying isn’t she awful! No, you’re awful and he’s awful - why are you telling me? What am I meant to do with that? It was just so personal and mean.

Fair enough @Ladybyrd I don’t blame you for not bothering. It all sounds like mind games and nonsense. You’re better off out of it altogether.

I suppose there are worse things to do then help people. Apart from manipulating who your friends play with and creating over attached children because you won’t let them grow and become independent. It’s actually quite sad to think someone hates themselves.

My mum and GB2 do something similar. If GB2's behaviour seems unreasonable, or he wants me to do something for him that I will probably not want to do he will tell Mum how unreasonable his partner is being (a one-sided or made up view) and how wonderful but put upon he is. Mum will then relay this to me as evidence of how wonderful he is and therefore anything he has done is not his fault and he 'needs' me to do more for him. It's clear to me that Mum is as much a part of this dynamic as GB2- even when it's clear that he is in the wrong she will not challenge him and gladly buys in to the pretence that he's perfect and his partner is selfish. The same sort of thing happened with GB1. They seem to think it's odd that I won't complain to them about DH or blame him when I don't want to do what they ask. So currently they are complaining that GB2 will be having to look after his own child whilst his partner has a weekend away with her friends (Mum is now too frail to help). Neatly forgetting that she does all the child care when he goes away with his friends. They both think I should help him because the weekend is his only time off work (forgetting that he also has a day off in the week when his child is at school and also the weekend is my only time off work too). As I have refused, this must be DHs fault- apparently I have become selfish since I met him (several decades ago), he must be trying to control me, why doesn't he want me spending time with my family? etc I have told them that DH would support whatever I decide and the decision is entirely mine. Their response is 'On yes, you think he's so wonderful don't you! He always left you to look after the children when yours were small, you should have more sympathy with GB2. [DH] and [GB2's partner] are just as bad as eachother!'. Which is bizarre because a) yes, of course I think DH is pretty great, that's the whole point of choosing to be with him and why we are still together after all this time and b) actually when our DC were small I worked away a lot and DH was left to do all the child care a lot of the time, and neither of us went on holiday without the children.

It seems almost I am currently the scapegoat but they want me to think that if I would just do what they tell me I could be the Golden Child too and we could all blame our partners for everything.

@formalwellies this all sounds familiar. I am shocked your family still don’t seem to understand that looking after your brother’s children is not your job. Even after all the other times you’ve said no.

My DH’s mum tried to blame me for him going NC/LC with them at different times (even though he had been NC for a period of years before we even met). Mine try to blame DH for my withdrawing from them. They really don’t like the idea we have our own minds do they?

@Eeriefairy I think the idea that we have our own minds is not something they are willing to consider. If they can tell themselves we are being controlled by our partners then presumably they think they just need to swap who is controlling us. Plus it feeds in to their idea that our family of origin is always perfect and right, so if we are being 'difficult' it must be because we are being forced in to it by a Bad Person. You're right that my family simply don't seem willing to give up on the idea of me being default childcare for GB2. I think they always assumed that I would just step in to Mum's role if/when she couldn't do it any more and they seem stuck on the idea that if they can somehow 'make' me fall in line. It really is tedious, not to mention odd in that GB2 now complains about what an awful, uncaring, selfish, nasty person I am but at the same time would be more than happy to leave his child with me for extended periods of time. I've realised that logic just doesn't apply with them.

My H’s family went down that road for a while. But I accept that, I am not towing the line. They must think he has a right controlling wife. I have a feeling that when things go wrong for us or have a bump in the road, just general life stuff they are happy and feel justified. I tend to keep most things from them, I hate to think that are smiling.

@formalwelliesYes, it’s like a carrot on a string dangling in front of your nose. Just try a bit harder, give a bit more. Of course I’m sure GB2 helped out when you were struggling with young children. It’s amazing how short people’s memories are when it fits the narrative.

My brother has never asked me to babysit. I feel a bit sorry for my nephew. He’s being lined up to be the next GB and though it seems like they get the longer straw, I think in the long run it messes them up even more. What happens when the competition is withdraws? You’re only “winning” while someone else is playing along. They can keep it. I’m sick of getting sucked into silly little games that zap my energy and time.

I'm at the phase wherein I am now totally disconnected from my family. I have disconnected all comms with another very difficult person I had to communicate with for years.

Therefore, in the space of 2 years, I have come out of a complete delusional state in my relationships ( scapegoat in family) and 5 people are now gone ( who I loved (I thought) and I thought loved me). It was forced by such a huge escalation in awful behaviour and therapy helping me see this and face it.

Is anyone else at this phase or ahead in this part of it all.

@TranscendThisI’m on the cusp of this. The incidents are escalating. It’s been affecting me for years but now they’re upsetting my kids. All seemingly innocent mistakes on the face of it but when you add it all together there’s a very obvious pattern and it’s progressively getting worse.

Can I ask you - is the distance giving you any peace? I’m up in the early hours every day worrying and constantly on edge about something I can’t fix.

Yes. I am having less of what I call severe reactive anxiety riddled responses. Once I really saw what my mother in particular was doing, had done all my life and as this escalated ( which it always appears to with age I understand) then my reactions got worse.

They have dissipated greatly. It's more balanced feelings rather than the painful anxiety feelings of severe ups and downs.....

It is currently replaced with huge grief, loneliness ( but that loneliness is alot to do with very unfortunate health circumstances and I am reminded with therapy that my anger and sadness is mostly my health and feeling vulnerable and frightened of what they could do).

I try to be incredibly uninteresting. The less reactive I am, the less interesting. And then you have to accept the brutal reality - they don't care and never did care about you so will happily see you go if you no longer supply them ( validation, strong emotional reactions, kissing their ass etc ).

It's significantly more peaceful but hard hard work to face reality at this stage I am in 🙏

I have a child - part of the network unfortunately. I try very hard to be loving and available but must employ rock solid boundaries here. That saddens me and tests me still at this point.

It's basically the biggest learning curve of my entire life and the hugest change in me the last 2 years. I don't recognise myself - in the best way ❤️ no cheerleaders for me here though, apart from me.

That's part of what happens down this journey I realise.

@TranscendThis My son in particular has become very vocal about the situation. He’s had enough - he’s said he’s seen how everything is all about his cousin. My daughter has been clinging to me as I’ve dropped her off these last two weeks - she’s only ever been like that on the first day of term previously.

It feels like all fun and games to them. My mother rolling her eyes at the drama. My dad having a good chuckle at it all. My brother rubbing his hands at stirring it all up. I feel sorry for my nephew, because I can see him ending up really quite isolated, stuck with this horrible mess. But for our family, I think we just need peace.

Ive been grieving the family I wish I had for a long while. But when they’re actively damaging my children it’s time to give up.