MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

I too have issues with social media. It makes my mind boggle. I know it’s fake! The level of poison these people have is just hard to fathom. Everyone and everything is affected. It’s like they all drinking from the same poisoned water without knowing, me also at times. It reminds me of a weird film I watched about a poison well everyone was drinking from and going crazy’s nose bleeding and then dying. We don’t know we have been handed this glass of water and we too are part of the crazy until we realise. Invisible rotten bastards!

@Spendysis I am wondering if I have been overlooking red flags or making excuses, and I suppose time will tell!

@SamAndAnnie I have seen this exact dynamic with my DH’s siblings. You can’t tell the sibling narc anything you don’t want the MiL to know. They have all tried to hide their addresses from her over the years, relationships, their place of work etc. They have both performed as flying monkeys for each other at different times.

@formalwellies That’s a good point about the swearing at/bashing the appliance when it fails to perform its usual duty. The incredulity that it isn’t doing what it was programmed to do. In my case, apart from a couple of arguments where my dad in particular made it clear that I am not behaving as he wishes, it’s just quiet disappointment for me and some sad sounding comments, which is still manipulative and not just “you are entitled to not want someone who abused your child to have contact with your children.”

I have very recently had a lot of sadness reflecting on my teenage years at home. My dad was a shouter and silent treatment giver and I constantly lived walking on egg shells, hiding in my room, or trying to protect my mother from verbal abuse. A pattern I don't think is uncommon with boomer generation parents. I was lucky I had a boy friend who lived nearby and his home was my safe haven where I could relax and be at peace, I was very happy there and I adored his family. They were very much living room kids.
Today for some random reason I decided to send my thank you to his mother for providing me such a loving space when I was struggling at home, and, being a mother myself now, told her how she had become my motherly role model. Given I haven't seen her in 20 years she was very lovely and said she never knew how two cold fish could've produced such a warm and kind daughter and she had always loved my company.
This really struck a nerve because I had always believed I was too much, I was annoying and people got sick of me (I think I'm high functioning autistic so I spend a lot of time masking the bigger parts of my personality now). I guess this opinion of myself came from seeming to always annoy my father by simply existing. Never doing the right thing, despite being a very successful over achiever.
My parents have mellowed now they are older. My mum is still very shallow and my dad angry but now I don't share a roof it affects me less. I'm just sad for my teenage self. Even when my best friend died when I was 17 they didn't really know what to say to me and I had to deal with my grief alone. I don't think I would ever cut them out my life as I feel a sense of familial duty and I'm their only child. They help me a lot with DIY and childcare so I guess I don't feel entitled to be annoyed or angry at them. I just wish my teenage self had experienced a kinder, more loving home.
I'm not sure why I posted really, just to feel a sense of belonging and that other people understand and have experienced similar?

This is excatly how the dynamic my family is as you describe. You are so right that I am playing a role and I did think that they don't help me as much as my siblings because i am the capable one. They assumed I don't need help but I do, I need support. I know i will not get it and I guess that is where I am currently sitting. Dealing with grief in a way that I will never have that. I will never have a normal loving, supportive family. I always feel disappointment whenever I come away from seeing my family because i just keep thinking it might change.

Turnip I spent a lot of time in my room and round friends houses too.

Happy Fucking Day!

Anyone who's been following my story may know of the latest turn in Mr Monkey's dysfunctional and majorly fucked up family.

Picture: Toxic Sociopathic mother (The Hag) died in 2024 after royally Fucking up her children, Mr Monkey (scapegoat), Toxic Brother (equally sociopathic abuser), and Slave Son (her de facto husband who had no life). Slave Son very sadly died in January, leaving his entire estate to Mr Monkey. His life in his latter years had been marked by disability and he was in very poor health.

Despite being missing in action from the entire family, plus his two sons - now in their 20s - and never contributing a penny to his family when Saintly Sister-in-Law divorced him after years of abuse, Toxic Brother expected a payout and attempted to bully Mr Monkey to release the pennies he got from The Hag's will with some evil threatening texts in 2024.

We were all prepared for him to challenge this will. Well, I wasn't, as I suspected, through a bit of snooping, that he had had a spectacular fall from financial grace and wasn't in a position to challenge the will via his usual posh firm of Legal 100 solictiors that matched his spectacular ego (not that he had grounds anyway, but he's a cheeky entitled fuckpig)

And lo and behold probate is now passed and there has been no legal challenge. Mr Monkey can get his life back and stop being overshadowed by this shit.

Toxic Brother can fuck off with the princely sum of £500 😂 from a pension that Slave Son forgot about. He was very surprised it was so low.

The solicitor can transfer those riches by BACs or via a cheque via coach and horses, and we never have to hear from the utter cockwomble EVER AGAIN.

He operates in a world of shame (narcissistic dickhead) anyway, and he will be too embarrassed to come begging, I hope.

However, our sister-in-law and us are dealing with the fallout of an abusive and neglectful father, as one of our nephews now has severe mental health issues.

So, the twat HAS left a legacy. But he hasn't received a legacy from his brother, whom he ignored for years despite his brother's poor health.

Hilariously, he has been advertising his services as a maths tutor up in Scotland, saying he wants to train as a primary school teacher. And lied about an Msc. How the mighty have fallen.

Absolutely delighted to get the fucker out of our lives.

Sometimes, despite the hell the wonderful women on this forum go through, there is light at the end of the tunnel. I wish better things for each and every one of you.

@ManchesterMonkey that is fantastic news! MrMonkey must be so relieved.

I am in Scotland so if I catch wind of a new maths tutor I'll give them a wide berth.

@ManchesterMonkey that sounds like a massive relief for you and Mr Monkey! Congratulations on being rid of him.

Sad about the son. They really don’t care do they. Their shame is worth more than everyone else’s lives. He sounds terrible. Keeping these people away from children feels like an almost impossible but important thing to do. Makes me realise the job we need to focus on.

Hi all, name changed, but long-time lurker on this thread. My family aren’t nearly as bad as those of a lot of posters, so I have always felt my situation wasn’t quite bad enough to post here. However, my dad died a few weeks ago and I had an epiphany at the cremation which has knocked me sideways completely.

I am the scapegoat in my family, with a narc mother and two siblings younger than me. Somehow, I always thought my dad was also a victim of my mum’s and it made me feel that at least under different circumstances he would have been a better dad to me. I could relate to him in a way, and my mum was equally horrible to him when I was young, and compared me to him. I always assumed he was under my mum's thumb and he just went along with her. At the cremation, though, it became very clear that, actually, he was not that bothered about me and was probably as much to blame for the scapegoating as my mum was. Everybody was emphasising how easy-going he was, always content, never moaned. My sisters shared lovely memories, he was such a gentle soul, such a lovely dad, etc. Childhood and young adult photos of him, he was absolutely beaming, looking super happy and confident. And I was sitting there thinking: is this my dad??? My frustrated, moody, uninterested dad?? And I was so, so hurt that my sisters do turn out to have lovely memories with him. I honestly thought they had also struggled with him. But they have just gone on and felt good about him and with him, while I was outcast.

How could I have got him so wrong? He wasn’t also struggling, he was fine except for with me! I am honestly so hurt. But it does tally with him getting frustrated with me and why he did never stand up for me or try to connect with me. I got the very strong impression last week that he was actually the kind of easy-going who just wants an easy life. And I am so disappointed. Is that why he was so annoyed and frustrated with me? I didn’t take my mum’s #@, and upset his applecart?

I feel I can’t talk to anybody about this IRL, because no ill of the dead and all that. And if other people honestly felt he was a lovely person, what can I say? I would just be the difficult one again. But I feel so absolutely alone and shattered now, I’m hoping somebody here might relate or talk some sense into me, because I am fuming with him right now..
(sorry, long!)

Everyone in the narcissistic family are moulded and manipulated into playing roles, your father included I think. I’m really sorry that sounds really difficult. I think they are all like cogs in a machine, all turning in tune to keep the machine going. Narcs ruin everything. Even decent people get manipulated. I had a friend who was once when I knew them very shy, very polite. She has married a narcissist man and she has become so much like him, I wouldn’t recognise her. I think what happens is the husband and wife sort of morph into one person, the weaker sort of getting kicked out, and are no longer a separate people. So your dad was never a person outside of this anymore. I find it all so unreal, none of what you think or remember is actually real, it’s just the leftover thoughts of the child version of you trying to make sense of it to survive it.

@ManchesterMonkey Glad to hear you have Toxic Brother out of your lives now. The thought of someone like him working with children is horrifying- but I doubt very much his idea of becoming a primary school teacher will happen (too much like hard work). GB2 decided he would do this a few years ago and was convinced that he would be immediately accepted for Teach First, offered hefty bursaries and fast tracked to leadership, given that he is of course the Very Very Clever. He didn't do any actual research/work experience etc (generally expected for applicants) and when his application was not successful claimed they were just after 'private school kids' and biased against people like him with 'real world experience'. So definitely not the fact that he was a 40+ year old man with huge gaps in his (sporadic) work history, no work experience in education and nothing positive to set him apart from the many other applicants.

@Mywhitedress That sounds awful. But despite the nice words and lovely photos your Dad might not have been quite that perfect with the younger children. At my brother's funeral (GB1) there were loads of happy smiley photos and stories of what a wonderful kind, funny, talented father, son, husband, brother and friend he was. In reality he treated the people saying these things like shit but they were so used to making excuses and giving him another chance that it actually came across as genuine if that makes sense. The 'don't speak ill of the dead' thing can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. That may be valid for normal people who might have perhaps occasionally make a mistake but deserve to have their memory respected, but for someone who actively enjoyed causing pain to others I think I am justified in saying I am relieved he didn't live longer. Like you though, I know I have to be careful about saying this in real life as it's not the done thing.

@Mywhitedress I have been feeling similar recently. My dad is the stronger personality, more inclined to shout or have a tantrum if he doesn’t get his way. So everyone else in the family seemed to naturally go along with what he wanted because it didn’t seem worth the hassle you’d get if you tried to assert yourself or what you thought was right.

It only recently dawned on me that actually my mum wasn’t just a “victim”. She’s been choosing to go along with it and encouraging me to go along with it my whole life because the alternative would take too much effort. Leaving him or standing up against his nonsense wasn’t worth the work.

In the book I read recently, there is an example of a woman who was violently abused by her mother. She would hear her father rattling the pans in the kitchen and think “he’s letting me know I’m not alone” and felt that at least he cared - it never occurred to her that he should have been protecting her/stopping the abuse himself.

I agree that in your case, the others may be painting the relationship in a more positive way than they actually experienced it. Either because they are lying to themselves or they don’t want to tell it like it is at someone’s funeral. I’m sure my DSis will say some nice words at my dad’s funeral but he takes liberties with her that he wouldn’t take with me. So on the surface, he’s more openly hostile to me, but only because she bows to him and then he treats her like her place is below him (if that makes sense).

I do think that different people have different experiences of the same person. That doesn’t take away from your experience. Some parents are rigid and by luck perhaps a child might align but another might not. It’s the parent’s job to adapt to different children’s needs, some can’t. You may have needed an approach that they weren’t able to deliver. That’s their fault and not yours.

Thank you@MustIgo that’s interesting about the cogs in the machine. And the leftover child thoughts. I’ve always felt our home and family was one big pretend, very unreal, surreal, but nobody else seems to see that or at least nobody has ever mentioned anything to me. So it must be me right?! It is just very painful to see them playing happy families now, and I am grieving a very different grief that they don’t want to know about. It’s lonely. I wish I could grieve a dad I loved and liked. I so wanted to love him.

I am so sorry @Eeriefairy that you came to the same realisation. I think children want at least one ‘good’ parent, don’t we? It’s too unsafe otherwise. I get it all rationally, but it’s so messed up in reality.
I think also you’re right people want to see the positives because it is too bleak otherwise. They’ll end up miserable like me!

@formalwellies it sounds like you have every right to talk about your brother like that. I didn’t speak at the cremation, because I didn’t want to say things that weren’t true.. even though a part of me thinks I wish I had said something in a very subtle way about my experience, just to make them aware there was more to my dad, cause now I felt invisible really, but that seemed too cruel, and in the end i knew that would then be seen as me being nasty.

@MustIgo its the fact that nobody seems to have noticed how he has been to me, which is the surreal thing to me. Surely they would have noticed the dynamic? Even if he was different with them. But everyone has gone along with the narrative that I am the cause of all the upset, despite lots of chats me and my sisters have had about it. They just don't seem to believe me.

I fully believe that people notice but they don’t want to be on the other end of that treatment because it’s uncomfortable so they justify it to themselves….it must therefore be you. They all want to survive themselves and this is the way they have leant how to. I have googled it a bit and this is what it says. The whole system is dysfunctional. There are no true relationships in these families, they ruin and taint every single bond. I think it’s hard to imagine the extent of the damage a narc will do to a family. They are all performing and surviving and asleep.

I’m not sure if sometimes their personalities align more, or if it’s just that one child is more complacent about the treatment they receive than another. Either consciously or subconsciously they go along with it because they think that’s what they deserve or they know that trying to get anything else out of the parent is pointless (they know their place).

In real narc family dynamics, from what I’ve seen, the narcs seem to hate each other. Even if they act as a representative for each other sometimes, there’s no genuine love or respect. I think it’s because they know what each other are about. But I don’t know - I certainly don’t know every narc family out there (thank god).

I know that the golden children are treated well, so they would have no reason to believe the scapegoated child. I think a child having a very basic take on the situation would just blame the sibling because they aren’t treated badly themselves. That child like thought just sticks into adulthood. I think many of us are just adults walking around with childish thoughts. That’s why I can understand why we have to keep kids away from them. Because once those thoughts become seeded they tend to stay.

I think what we have to take away from this is that it’s always up to the parents to navigate a relationship with their children, to adapt so they can all grow. Not every child grows in the same environment, it’s NEVER the child’s fault. It is difficult and I know some children are more challenging but it’s in the efforts of the parents to get help and support for these children. The thoughts that some children carry into adulthood that they were too difficult to be loved was never the truth but the take of a child on the situation. As an adult now we have to examine this thought because as adults we know that it’s never the child’s responsibility to be easy to love. The fact some parents can’t be bothered or it’s too hard or they too rigid to adapt or because they only want a certain type of child because they don’t want to give up their time to put work in is entirely their fault. In my own case I was very different as a child, very sensitive, very still and like a dear in the headlights, I was not the type of child my parents knew how to deal with, they had one way of parenting. I could not adapt to this environment as easy as my brother, it broke me.

@MustIgo I absolutely agree with this. I was raised in a house where my eldest sister was “not welcome back until she apologised” for something she had done. Growing up, I did believe she should just apologise, but now I think that was absolutely terrible parenting. And the thing she had done wrong was a cry for help from a teenager really. She needed understanding.

This also had an effect I think on us that were left. We knew if we stepped out of line too far we’d be abandoned, so that builds a need to fit in, to align with the powerful adults, or possibly die (you know as a kid you can’t survive on your own).

And I’m way into adulthood and very much the kind of person to reflect and re-evaluate beliefs and past thoughts and actions, and only just realising how much stuff I’ve been wrong about.

Agree with this. I vividly remember my mum stuffing my things in a black bin back many times as a child and teenager so I will fall back in line. Tbh i wasn't really that bad of a kid was just fed up of being controlled by my mum.

I was given the golden child role and although I didnt have it as bad as my sister i always had pressures on me to be the best and not talk back. Im now a people pleaser, I am trying my hardest now to relearn boundaries. So I think that we do all experience it differently based on the role we had to play. I think all roles have an impact in many ways.

I briefly spoke to my mum last night. She said she was out with friends. I asked what she was up to just conversation. Her answer was "im at a show you wouldn't like it" i asked what show. She replied "katie hopkins". I just said ok and said i had to go.
Ive come to realise my parents are just not nice people and thats why they cant be there for me because my views are "too different" and im "too sensitive" and "woke". In actual fact I just want to be nice to people and I cant empathise where as both parents cannot.
I just feel so alone its really rubbish. I dpnt have a partner because I end up in abusive ones and im scared about getting into another. Id rather be alone now than in an abusive relationship.

I hate this grief feeling of wishing I had a different family. I also feel so angry like why are they so incapable of being nice and looking after the children they decided to have. I didnt ask to be born they brought me into this world. Surely you would support your kids even as adults but nope they see it as your past 18 you are no longer my responsibility.

Just blown my stack completely. Took the kids to visit my parents (3 hour round trip). Get there and straight away my mum starts on about some emergency with my nephew to do with his sports team. Where’s dad? Oh he’s had to take him. He’ll be here later though.

They’ve never driven my children anywhere in their lives. They come to our town and tell us about it afterwards. I am so sick of their weird bullshit.

Explain that we’ve just driven all the way to see you both - they are also your grandchildren - they count too. Couldn’t you have told me beforehand? Oh it’s not her fault she always gets the blame for everything. Let’s talk about something else.

So I moved onto the topic of that they’ve always favoured my brother - now they’re doing it with our kids. They come to see you and he goes off somewhere with their cousin? WTAF? Asked her if they don’t give him enough already. He practically lives there. Has a room of his own. My kids have never even spent the night.

Then actually, thought fuck this. They don’t care. Have absolutely no intention of changing. They pull these nasty tricks all the time - constantly telling my kids what they’ve been doing with their cousin they’d never dream of doing with them. Like it or lump it. Suddenly realised I’m content with neither. Told the kids to get in the car and left.

My poor kids. I shouldn’t have lost my rag, but I’m absolutely at the end of my wick. The last time I was on this thread it was because my children and I had been excluded from a get together with family and friends.

We took my parents out to a birthday celebration the other week and I thought we were back on an even keel. But I should have known: this is what happens every time. And now this. To be honest I think I did all my grieving the last time - I don’t feel nearly as upset this time (pretty upset though). They were shit parents to me and will only do the bare minimum as grandparents. Cards in the post it is.

If this all sounds melodramatic it’s because this button has been pushed about a billion times over the years and we all get to the end of the line.

@Ladybyrd honestly, it sounds like that might be the best thing for your kids to see. You just called them out and pointed out it wasn’t caring, wasn’t putting you in an equal position with your other family members and that you wouldn’t put up with it for yourself or your children. Not all anger is unreasonable/inappropriate to express.

@Ladybyrd I think that sounds epic what you did. Good on you!

I think the last incident just severed all the guilt/ hope of ever “winning” any affection.

I just stood there wondering what on earth is wrong with them that they think that kind of rudeness is ok.

They never call or visit us. Whenever I try to hold up the bridge, it’s obviously a massive inconvenience.

Wish I hadn’t raised my voice, but fuck it.

I actually feel ok.