MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

I suppose it’s different for me because they aren’t my parents and although it would be comfortable if they liked me I don’t really care. It must be hard when it’s your parents. No one had better offer my services out, I wouldn’t do it anyway as I’ve got my own family and life I don’t have time for that. But I have seen his parents do this to them. Not so much my H but his sibling definitely. He is definitely the family figure head. Which I can’t understand as he’s an arsehole, arrogant and zero conversation, people don’t warm to him like the mum. She has it down much better. She is likable really if she wasn’t so self absorbed. She doesn’t really need all this performance, she does have and could have a brilliant family but she has ruined it.

That's the whole point, narcs don't make sense! Their behaviour isn't rational.

And why do it?
Because they want their own way 100% of the time and for them/their beliefs to never be questioned or disagreed with. That doesn't happen in an emotionally healthy relationship. They don't want an emotionally healthy relationship (they don't even know how to have one, they're that messed up), instead they want total control. Over everyone in their lives. Otherwise, you're of no use to them.

What does she want from this other sibling and his family? Allies? Spokespeople for her brilliance?

Yup. And ego stroking. And to use as flying monkeys to pressure a scapegoat like your DH into becoming their carer (or you, because obviously women are worthless and should be chained to the kitchen sink)/providing them with money (while they give their own income/majority inheritance to the golden child who does nothing and can do no wrong in their eyes).

Yeah no one is that amazing. I mean the mum could be great she has many good qualities and opinions etc apart from the fact that she isn’t responsive, she’s dead behind the eyes when it comes to empathy. It’s like she wants to be seen as doing the job but not by actually absorbing any of the feelings, she doesn’t get dirty with you.

Just joined the new thread. I haven't posted much for a while; I'm now 2 years in to a drama with a problem neighbour who I suspect might be a full blown narcissist. At the moment every interaction with her is an opportunity for her to devalue and discard, its like she's running through the narc script at top speed. On the plus side, it looks like people have finally seen through her, but that also makes me more concerned for my own safety. I grey rock her, but can't go fully NC as neither of us can move house.
I'm seriously thinking of looking for an exchange with another tenant, but I might just end up with yet more bad neighbours and at least here I've got some support.

I have had some challenges with neighbours; we share an entrance way and it's a poorly insulated flat, so it can be difficult to entirely avoid and noise is a constant problem. We have had some conflict over behaviour seriously impacting me; blocking communal access for their own needs for example. Something I challenged and made clear was not to continue. Being nice and ' friends ' often is not a good idea. Boundaries will be crossed in my experience if this is your approach. Respect, over being liked, is now my aim.

I feel so much better going completely grey rock with neighbours . I don't ever contact, any contact to me about things gets polite and friendly one word answers, then shut down.

My feeling is that it's always best to have distance with neighbours. Smile, walk by and share nothing at all private and personal.

I'm guessing at some point you were spending time together/ socialising?

Sharing absolutely nothing is the way forward. It's very hard though if some closer relationship was established before.

If you're in social housing, I feel your pain. It tends to come with different types of behaviours shall we say than my time owning a home and private rental. 😬

These are emotionally immature people. Nightmare parents because they literally cannot see their children as anything other than extensions of themselves. Draining.

TranscendThis Thats the thing - she's always been a problem neighbour so I've never socialised with her. Common sense says she's got no reason to be so obsessive as we've never been close but I think thats half the problem. I've got boundaries, she hasn't been able to trample them, and that makes her furious.

@SamAndAnnie thank you. Yes I feel this is the best approach and if it becomes a well established narc situation by adulthood ( I do see this becoming a fixed way tbh), then I absolutely will protect myself now matter what, even if NC is the only option.

Your advice in the past has been very helpful. The suggestion to cut out comms with the ex has been great. It has stopped any avenues to keep messaging crap accusations to me and I can say ' I don't speak with your dad' when my son says ' dad says you said xyz about Me'. 🙏❤️.

Keep going with the swapping sites and hopefully something will come up. I wear headphones most the time when I leave my house with music on. It's then almost like these people don't exist. You don't have to hear them and subsequently you stop feeling their energy in your mind so much.

Even when you can't see or hear them .you feel their energy and it can take over your mind. I have this problem with the neighbour but the more I'm headphones the less I think about them

My narc mother is also very close by and the energy can be all consuming. Trying to move sounds a good idea. I'm in the same boat on that one. It's not easy to get away in these situations with SH and swaps.

If you are in any way connected on social media, I suggest you somehow come away. That will feed the problem in your mind if you see what the nutty neighbour is posting and vice versa.

Can someone explain in an easy way what being an extension of a narc means? How can a parent think their child is part of them or going to think exactly the same as them?’I don’t really understand this. Is it like in the image of god, so Jesus was his voice on earth type thing. Sorry I’m not religious so I might have got that wrong.

I definitely think my H’s brother and family are golden children. But they aren’t very nice and people don’t tend to like them because of the arrogance. But he is successful in that he outwardly looks more impressive. My H is well liked but he definitely isn’t praised for it. I would say money wise etc we are the same but we have invested so live smaller so that when we are older we have some cash. I can’t understand this. I am not biased, it’s obvious that my H is a much kinder and likable person, he reaches more people and leaves a better reflection. Yet he is left alone. Perhaps is just because he is quieter and not arrogant and they don’t recognise this.

@MustIgo Like SamandAnnie said, it doesn’t make sense to us, so no one can really explain it in a way that will make sense for you. It is a disorder categorised as an antisocial personality disorder. Psychopathy and sociopathy are no longer terms used by psychologists. They use “antisocial personality disorder”, “narcissistic personality disorder”, “borderline personality disorder” etc. You can look into these terms, what they mean and what the symptoms and presentation are. So you can see how they see people - as objects or as pawns in a game.

People can care about their things and they can be very upset if something happens to them - especially one that provides a lot of apparent benefit to their life like their car, but they’re still things. You are there to provide some benefit or other to them (which can be as simple as stroking their ego in private, placing them in a position of power and respect, or as much as doing everything for them and their extended network). Usually golden children are narcissists themselves. They’re not nice, they’re just the same as the NPD parent, so they’re treated differently. It’s possible that being treated as golden children turns them into narcissists because they’ve been taught they’re more important and can do no wrong.

Yes I should stop looking into it, it just makes no sense to my brain. You have one son who is kind (genuine kind) liked and loved by all and you have another whose arrogant, perfectionist, competitive and starts competitions with people who aren’t even aware they are in it and just disliked, even grandparents are aware of the arrogance. But this one is the favourite when the other is more like the kind performance the mum gives out, she is not outwardly arrogant at all.

I suppose her kindness is a performance and underneath she is like the other son. That son is a more open version of her, show off, money oriented. I am surprised considering that she lives very mellow and quiet, not showy with labels and money. They don’t seem to have much in common at all. That arrogance and entitlement is hidden in her. But you can see it every time she has an opinion which she thinks is fact and you have a different opinion. I did read that there are covert and overt ones and perhaps this is what is happening.

Must, the child/pet/partner etc is in their mind basically a fifth limb attached to them, they don't consider anyone who's "theirs" to be a separate person.

Imagine your rage if you cussed out your own arm because you couldn't make it do what you wanted it to do and pick up that cup, and your own arm responded by punching you in the face. Or if you neglected to wash your legs and put shoes on your feet for a month, so those same legs of yours jumped you into the river when you were on your way to the shop against your will. You'd be pretty pissed off, right? How dare parts of you be outside of your control! How dare they have opinions! How can they possibly have wants and needs, when they're part of you and you (the all-controlling narc) doesn't want or need them to want or need those things?! You, the God and King of all things that are "yours", decided your feet don't need shoes - therefore your feet don't need shoes, simples.

But these aren't fifth limbs, it's their partner/child/pet. They're literally raging because they can't control your mind and therefore your actions. You are "wrong" and therefore must be punished until you give in and admit you're wrong, apologise profusely to make it up to them and do exactly what they want you to do forever more. Every time you step outside of those parameters, the rage starts again.

They probably think they're doing you a massive favour by making passive aggressive "friendly/fatherly" comments to attempt to "educate" you on where your place in the family should be (plus they'd look bad if they blindly raged at you like someone possessed, and appearance is everything since they have no substance to them)....What do you mean you're not grateful for that?! You little 🤬 , you get back here and comply damnit!
🤣🤣🤣

It's like in their mind it goes something like this -

Kindness = weakness. Pathetic. Loser. Not even worth looking at. Useful receptacle for my bile when I'm pissed off though, so I won't banish him from my presence.

Competitive = a 🎉 winner 🎉 who's reflected glory they can bask in...MY son, the WINNER, aren't I fabulous and amazing and so very very clever for birthing him?
(If he lost, it wasn't his fault, the other person must have cheated even though the other person didn't know they were in the competition. I mean, what else could it be? There's no way my GC and 5th limb extension was worse than them and genuinely lost, that would mean I'm worse than them...and I'm better than everybody, everyone knows that).

It's such a messed up way of thinking.

It’s just not nice to be part of this family. Although I wouldn’t say they were outwardly nasty it feels rubbish. The SIL was weird to me the moment I joined the family. She is on a trip to be the best mother in the world, I’m guessing it’s just part and parcel of the dynamic. So there’s competition there. When all I want is friends it’s just not there. I have no desire to be seen as anything, we are all mums just trying our best. It’s sad really that they are like this, they just have so many walls built. There is no room for fun and making mistakes and just being a family who don’t worry about others, it’s very serious.

It's truly horrible must. Even though I'm NC I'm still sad because I wish it wasn't this way. There is no other way though.

Your SIL has joined them, she's part of the beast now. I think the covert stuff is harder to recognise because it doesn't seem outwardly nasty but it still is, really. You've got at least one of them making comments about older mums, women who work and whatever else is being said. That's not coincidence you are the demographic that's being talked about, they're literally making digs at you, to your face and in front of your husband, all under the guise of "polite conversation" but there's nothing polite about it and it is nasty. Yet they're not obviously and so everyone can see calling you a POS, so if you react you'll look like the unhinged bad guy. You can't win.

The grey rock thing works a bit but it still causes harm to be in their presence because they're constantly putting you down and trying to stomp all over your boundaries even if you're fighting against it the whole time. It's exhausting. Everything that people says on here about how it is, is true and if you stick around you'll start to pick up on the same behaviour from your own rotten apples and you'll also realise you're not the only one feeling however it is you feel because someone else here will be feeling that way too, everyone is dealing with the same nonsense. Once you spot the patterns you can't unsee it.

I used to work retail customer service and they remind me of those people who have obviously damaged the item, but want the moon on a stick and wrapped in your soul, for compensation. The kind of people who says things like "I pay your wages" even when they didn't buy anything! It's that same type of ridiculousness and unreasonableness we're dealing with but worse because it's not 20mins at work and you can have a moan with colleagues then go home, they're locked into our lives and in some cases they are in our homes.

I tell myself that actually they are insignificant and just a handful of people amongst billions. I am trying to grow myself as a person and these people would hold me back. I think there is something about going to university and travelling and living In different places that opens you up as a person. I would not want to be like these people. Life is bigger than this, worrying about my image, being nasty to people I really couldn’t be bothered. I would never use my children like this, they have their own journeys to go on. Love and let live. I can only imagine how they interpret me as a person, they must think I’m a right one, multidimensional, I don’t hide stuff I talk about my mistakes. It’s quite funny. I sometimes wish the other family would come apart at the seams a bit as surely no one can sustain the golden balls shit for ever. Surely things go wrong in their life.

Do you think that when you enter a family with a narc your world gets smaller? I am just thinking of my SIL and how many people/friends she has lost over the years the more she takes on the narc philosophy. The more elite you think you are the more you can’t connect with people anymore? Being a golden child or golden family must be very isolating. I think being a scapegoat or just ignored is a better position because you have to widen your life to get good connections. I’m not sure what is better of the two?

I have come back hear partly to thank this thread and @AttilaTheMeerkat @ManchesterMonkey and many others.

This is long as it has my history and story for those that don’t know.

I posted on here 5 years ago. I think I knew deep down my family was completely dysfunctional and strange but I didn’t know a normal at all. This thread was the start of processing and healing. Proper advice.

Background - My parents were wealthy, I went to private school. But behind the doors it was a different point of view. All that mattered to them really was silence and academic success. A B grade didn’t cut it. The reality was they changed which sibling they liked pretty regularly and I left home bruised, battered and self harming and mentally and emotionally damaged to go to university and my father beat me regularly for no reason (eg I looked at him funny!) . And no, despite their wealth I didn’t have much - sanitary towels handed out one at a time etc.
I had periods of ‘they are ok’ filtered against two siblings that were power hungry to dominate all social events and to show you exactly how much they were better than you. My brother in particularly was physically abusive, my sister needs to break you verbally.

I didn’t understand normal and married someone who was powerful and wealthy (see a pattern?) who used his fists to get what he wanted. Patterns repeat and I did repeat them over and over. Nothing I achieved at work was enough (it was all shit apparently) and I was a huge disappointment. Raising two children on my own with a narcissistic ex who valued money and used money as a weapon, I whilst working full time and providing a stable and loving home still was ‘crap’.

Under a promise of my parents being relatively ok due to not seeing them (covid) and then wanting me to move ‘home’ I did so. Relocated jobs, children, sold my house and moved to a more expensive area and in with them. Abuse started pretty much as soon as I got the court order telling me I could move. The plan was to move in with them and then they said they would help me buy a house (smaller but in a far more expensive area) and help with the children and childcare etc We moved in and the control was instant how much water we could use (two inches for my son’s bath) how many teddies he could cuddle (one) all the other my father removed and so on. All done nicely - eg he has too many and it will help him sleep better come on you aren’t making good parenting decisions. He wants to splash and water should be tepid et Like most abuse there were nice bits too but the control crept into everything.
They played divide and rule with the children, chocolates and tv for one but not the other (excuse made eg tv programme not suitable) until I was questioning my own mind. I was controlled - my father said they would be no cuddles for my children in my bed etc I needed to be adult etc - some came with reasons eg it’s good to have an adult only bedroom for you. It’s our house our rules etc

Eventually they chose a house (I didn’t view it until after they viewed and put an offer in) their plan I give them all my money and savings, they buy the house (in their name) then I pay £1000 a month for ten years and then they gift it back to me. My solicitor said don’t do it. My friends said don’t do it. Even now I type it and think wtf why was I considering it. Then the threatening, you need to leave then etc and I was trapped. Until one morning after being woken up at 5 am by my father I said no, I couldn’t do it anymore and I wanted to support myself and my children and couldn’t and wouldn’t accept his ‘help’. This is the short version, he had a list of conditions for the house, eg I had to rehome my lovely Labrador etc A huge argument happened, he threatened me. I left with the children in my car and went to a friend who took me in at 6am. I posted of here but some details I changed and some I left out. People had different opinions especially if they don’t know abuse. But stately homes - people on here got it. No judgements.

Rentals were twice my previous mortgage, house prices double. I couldn’t move back I had a court order saying I could only live here , they had changed schools, my house was sold etc

It was hard.

Despite the odds (and it was hard) we managed to get a house to rent - tiny (turned out to be mouldy shoe box) but we did it. Even then my salary was burning up and my parents refused point blank to talk to me. My father said I was too much of a disappointment and offered to take the eldest child to live with them (as apparently they were bright and ‘one of us’ but the youngest could stay with me or go ‘in a home’ - they and I refused.

They cut me off - not financially as I had been paying both my mortgage and also paying for all the food etc whilst we were staying with them. (Not that it is relevant but they are millionaires with huge pensions).
That broke me - them not speaking to me. They refused to give some of our things back - my friends collected most of it but they wouldn’t give it all back as they wanted my friend’s address and I wouldn’t give it to them ( my friends had known my parents for 25 years and they knew what I didn’t - how abusive and abnormal it all was!)

My parents - They turned up at work once - odd and dropped off post and were angry when they weren’t allowed in by security. They wanted our rental address but by then I had a counsellor who said no. Peace -focus on that, we will build boundaries. I had years of therapy. So did the eldest. It was hard moving in covid was hard.

So where are we 5 years on…..

We are 18 months into our new owned house. Same area. 4 bedrooms, overlooking fields and countrysides. Eldest completed GCSEs and then got a scholarship to a private school for sixth form, then got a scholarship to university and just completed Year 1 - long degree 5 years. She is thriving. She is kind, loves board games, pot noodles, and animals and a hug and loves music I don’t (! 😆🤪). Had a year in hall and then home for the next 4 years and has a part time job and has been savings. She had come across her grandparents twice once at a local show, and then recently in a pub when she was with her friends. She said they walked past her table clocked her and she did nothing - they walked past and she finished her drink with her friends and left. She did meet them once back in 2021 and my father tried to give her money and hug her and she said to him / I don’t want your money thanks I will earn my own and ‘I’m not ready to hug you, you kept my stuff and wanted me to go to retrieve it personally on my own and when I said no, I wasn’t ready for that aged 14 you refused - do you remember so you just kept my stuff? Trust and hugs are earned and we aren’t there yet’ and he looked like he had been slapped.
Younger sibling is now at secondary and the highest point earner (good ones!) at his school he has a learning disability diagnosis and has thrived since a one to one TA and he is top sets for most subjects. He plays rugby, cricket and is a normal teenager. And he is allowed his soft toys and yes he is over 12 and has at least 10 soft teddies in his bed at all times and a huge collection on top of his cupboards. He likes pokemon and Duolingo!

And me, well my friends (the ones from uni who took us in!) they introduced me to a friend of theirs. I didn’t want a relationship. I eventually agree to meet him for a cup of tea and a dog walk with my Labrador. Well it turned out he was lovely. Really lovely. A rather lovely, kind, honest man who also had a dog and adult son. So we had many nice dates and rather nicely I found myself enjoying his friendship. I think I have added a bit of healing to his life (he was widowed 6 years ago), and him to mine. So are now married and living in said lovely house (I can hear the birds singing outside) and it’s a lovely relationship -it’s healthy and breathes and grows. The children adore him. My oldest liked him when she met him but he has earned her trust in the way the same way he has mine turning up and doing what he said he would do. Driving at midnight to get her from a party that she was upset at etc she phones him as much as me.

His adult son moved around the corner. It has been healing too, someone to talk to his mum about and the first time he mentioned her he suddenly had a look of horror and I carried on - you were saying these are your Mum’s favourite flowers ….. we must get some for the garden then. What coloured ones did she like? And he relaxed and my husband said after that is the first time he has talked about her. He talks about her now.

Life isn’t perfect. Right now this morning it is. But we have a ND household and sometimes we have disagreements (sometimes we have to explain someone’s ND doesn’t trump someone else’s 😆) . I won’t drive let my daughter drive the car with me in it ….. test is booked but honestly I value my life and sanity and so my husband takes her out for her driving (the one time I did I told her to stop the car and walked home 😆) so it’s not all perfect (!) but honestly it is a mostly a house of peace and quiet and nice and dogs snoring. Tomorrow the children (even the two are adults) might argue but for now it is quiet!

For me that moment I had 6 years ago of take your money I don’t want it - has stayed. I offered my parents to meet us for coffee but said they weren’t having our address. That’s my chosen boundary and they don’t want it. They said they want me to go to their house for coffee and I refused. (My father has locked me in historically so I can ‘listen’ in the past etc )

Going NC even though it was in fact their choice and not mine - I wanted with the support from my therapist a healthy relationship with boundaries - was really hard.

They have phone numbers, emails etc and haven’t reached out. Yes you grieve for a parents you wanted, your younger self, the support especially when you see others. I so wanted to be loved by my parents. I so wanted that. Being honest - who doesn’t? I so wanted normal.

But you know what I have a MIL who is lovely, I have 3 children, dogs and a husband. I am truly blessed.

So for @AttilaTheMeerkat I still follow the drop the rope analogy, the analogy of the rowing boat trying to keep it stable, I still say ‘not my circus and not my monkeys’. I do truly believe as a parent, that having a child doesn’t entitle you to lifelong forgiveness and to dominate your adult children- nope 👎 some relationships can’t be healed, some people are abusive and can’t be fixed. And the best you can do is limit them, drop the rope, don’t play their games - remove yourself from the game. The years I spent trying to work out why they said or did certain things and trying to heal the broken life I had.

For me the healing came in the silence, in the NC zone, with a counsellor, with a garden, with a dog, with a book and in the quiet.

A huge thanks to this thread - I still read and follow and I wish you all much healing.

IAAP

Reading your message has made my morning😀. I remember you so very well and am chuffed to bits to read that your family and you are now so happy together. 🤗💐

Do you think that when you enter a family with a narc your world gets smaller?

If you stick around and if you don't fight it then yes. Fighting it isn't enough though, it contributed significantly towards making me unwell. You're dealing with so much shit from them that you don't have energy for the healthy people in your life. You also get slowly drawn into the dynamic of trying to prove yourself by appeasing them, because in the beginning that looks like the easiest option. So you slowly find they take up more and more time in your life. It's like any abusive relationship, it can be insidious. If you dated someone for 6 months then the first visit the parents raged in your face that you never come over and demanded you move in to be their carer, you'd see right through them and run a mile. So they don't. Just like an abusive boyfriend doesn't hit you on the first date.

Your DC grow up seeing all their shite, including the constant narrative that you, their mother, is less than. Then you have a constant battle to counteract that. I've seen a family over years where the pre-teen DC with an abusive parent started abusing the other parent verbally and with bad attitude just like their own abusive parent does. Until they divorced and was able to turn the behaviour in the DC around. The training of who's "worthy" and who isn't, starts early. I didn't know enough of that abusive parent to judge if I thought they were narcissist or not, I was friends with the other one. Not all abusers are narcs, but I've yet to come across someone who shows a lot of narcissist traits who isn't also abusive in some way.

I don't have narcissistic in-laws but I grew up in what I believe to be a narcissist family dynamic, the parent I believe is covert and there's a more overt sibling. As someone else mentioned, IDK if all GC grows up to be narcs but that seems to have happened in this case. I also had a narcissistic ex. Since stepping away from all the nonsense and refusing to engage with it in any way, I have so much more time. It's not only physical time, I barely saw my narc family in recent years but the mental time and energy that you spend dealing with your your emotions in the run up to visits and the aftermath of whatever they've said or done, is immense. That's all time and energy that could be going to other things/people in your life. If you're not with them, you're thinking about them. It leaves little room for anything else. And that's how abusive people like it.

Congratulations IAAP that's a lovely success story. And a close shave. Reckon your eldest would have got locked in like you did if she went there alone. As millionaires it couldn't even have been about money, they seemed to want to destroy you and take all you had just for the sake of it and having full control over you. You have done well to escape.

@IWasIAAP thank you for sharing. It’s difficult to imagine the future sometimes for those of us who have just started on this path! It sounds like you fought very hard to have a life of peace and freedom and you deserve it all.

@MustIgo yes, the two NPD members of my DH’s family have one by one alienated themselves from most of their family and friends. They make new friends but they’re short lived because they over-step or show their true colours sooner or later. I should probably better say “contacts” because it’s always for whatever they think the person has to offer and not a genuine friendship. My DH speaks to them because of, in the case of his mum: Stockholm syndrome, and in the case of his sibling: trauma bonding. If he just met these people he’d never want anything to do with them.

I have to admit for some time I did try and “impress” them, but nothing worked. So I gave up a while ago. There is something about me they don’t quite like and I don’t know what that is. I am just not like them I suppose, I don’t have any ulterior motives just want decent people around me. I think that’s the issue I have, I just don’t trust them. When they are being nice I don’t trust why. To be superior that means that you think you are better than people and that’s not a nice situation to be part of.

eerie do you think the sibling will stay in touch after his mum passes away? I don't think mine will try to, I think that'll be the end to any more hoovering attempts. Which will be a blessing. It must be worse if the sibling will hang around and there's never an end point.

@MustIgo you can not impress them. It doesn’t work.
I had a degree, postgrad degree and a career and I was slim, long blonde hair, sporty - everything he wanted and it wasn’t enough. You can’t be - the hole inside them is literally a black hole - you can’t fill it.

I came through counselling to the conclusion that it wasn’t ‘me’ they didn’t like it was themselves. There is a mirroring theory that someone will criticise something very minor in you eg you talk too fast and really they realise they are too loud/ fast/ slow etc but instead of work on themselves they like a dementor choose to suck life and joy out of others.

My father was famous the big I am, and so he kept telling us everyone knew him, he was the big cheese. Ironically we went to his old workplace about 4 years ago and he retired 25 years ago (he’s 85 now) his name and photo wasn’t anywhere nowhere. My daughter asked (it was like a public open day) to talk to some people and asked do you ‘Sir ……’ and no one knew him or diddly squat about him. He’s gone, he’s dust. We all will be. But the difference is whilst on planet earth I’m trying to be kind, trying to make a difference, trying to spread some laughter, love and kindness. Because in a 100 years I won’t be here in 200 years - no one on Earth will have known me in real life. The real ‘impression’ we leave is when we are kind. My father sees kindness as a weakness something to be criticised I see it as my strength. I’ve just come back from a wildlife place I volunteer unpaid at on a Sunday. The joy I have spread, no one will remember me but the extended family who went I went over and said / would you like me to try and take a photo with all of you in and whatever in the background. It took 2 minutes to take 20 photos with their phones and one of them came back and said - that’s a gorgeous photo and we haven’t had one together for 10 years and they were really chuffed - it cost me nothing but hopefully it’s something they will have that memory and that photo. That’s my imprint.

For any going NC the first year, their birthdays, mine and mothers father day etc all hard but it did get easier. I have just thought today I’ve missed their wedding anniversary the date didn’t register! I missed his birthday it didn’t register. When I get grief, or upset I hear it - I listen I register it and then I ride the wave as it will pass and I will survive and be stronger. @AttilaTheMeerkat says drop the rope - it’s true. Pick up other ropes and climb - there are many normal people out there and I’m one of them. All humans are flawed, damaged beings, but like Japanese pottery fix the cracks with gold and it becomes more beautiful.