MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

The one thing that bothers me greatly is the positive spin she has on everything. Like NO this isn’t positive stop trying to minimise it so you don’t have to bother doing anything. I hate toxic positivity. I hate that they say you are negative if you are bothered by something. I’m guessing she does this so she doesn’t have to act?

@MustIgo it sounds like you’re definitely in the right place. The lack of genuine interest/connection while pretending to be a doting parent is one of the most common presentations of NPD parents. It also allows them to play the victim if you ever try and call them out on it “after everything I’ve done for you, how could you say such awful things” etc…

I don’t think I’m in the position like some have mentioned on here. I find it mildly irritating and a bit painful to watch. I don’t raise my children in this way at all and my H is not like them. I mean he has some of the silly comments but he is actually a very sensitive man. He isn’t image conscious at all unlike his sibling, unfortunately they have OCD and anxiety issues. I suspect they don’t like me, I’m ok with that as I don’t much like them. I am not on this earth to make anyone look good. I am a little concerned about my kids falling for this. It annoys me as obviously kids love to be loved and they fall for the nicey love bombimg stuff.

I think the nicey love bombing stuff doesn’t fool them for all that long, mostly. I missed your previous comment - yes pointing out a problem isn’t being negative, especially if you’re doing so to try and find a solution. Ignoring problems or pretending there aren’t any isn’t positive either. Just say that to them if they accuse you of being negative.

You don’t have to go along with it. I don’t have any contact with my MIL. Although, she was extremely openly hostile to me and she can’t really argue with her adult children that she wasn’t abusive as it’s pretty black and white (so she says she doesn’t remember it) but anyway, it wasn’t able to be covered up so that made it easier for me to cut ties.

Mine isn’t what I would class as abusive, whatever it is it’s very covert. It’s all just so surface level and dismissive. But the mum definitely has some kind of problem. I’ve never known another most kindest distant person before. She is an odd mix, when you scratch the surface of this kind, helpful lady there isn’t anything underneath, weird person. I guess that’s why she keeps it surface level and at a distance. The dad I don’t understand at all. He is quite a big head, thinks emotions are weak. Cutting ties feels weird, like on what grounds…..because my gut feels something isn’t quite right….it’s all odd.

@MustIgo It does sound more complicated for you. If it bothers you that your DC are being used in their performance you can point it out, compare what a genuine relationship would look like to what they’re doing. It depends how old your DC are and how upset your husband would get over you “rocking the boat”. I think it’s a line a lot of us have to (or have had to) walk.

I may as well throw myself overboard if I tried to rock the boat. Everyone is taken in by this act (apart from maybe a couple of family members who have been ignored). My kids want to see them. They are good to them when they have them, very OTT. But for me this is not family. Being left to go through life on your own whilst simultaneously looking amazing and like the best family ever isn’t the family I know. For me family is great because they show up when it’s hard and when there is no audience.

You say that the love bombing doesn’t work forever but my H’s siblings kids are mid teens and they are well into the system. Their kids have always been offered to the parents whenever they requested them and shown off. These kids in a way look down on my kids who are still very child like, these kids are extremely grown up for their age and are always comparing what they have to others. Like mocking my kids because I won’t allow phones and they have the latest of everything. I think that the conditioning works, they are perfectly conditioned kids to pass down the batton.

@MustIgo yes, I did say mostly. There is very often one, and sometimes more, children - more likely children than grandchildren ime, who “take after” the narcissist and develop NPD themselves. I think it’s rare to be a normal person who doesn’t see them for what they are. Because there’s always that distance and the question: why aren’t you really there for me when I actually need you? If appearances are all that matter to the person having a relationship with them, then they’ll see it as at least they perform for others “when it counts”.

I’ve seen it in other families especially with the “fun dad” thing. The kids might be fooled when they’re young, but they learn that the dad was just performing for the benefit of whoever as they get older. If he isn’t genuinely caring they can tell. But there will be people who never get it and just wonder why it “seems” like their parents don’t care, when to all appearances they do. And people like your husband it sounds, who see it as a positive that they grew up independent “thanks” to the parents not really being there. I know lots of those as well and have recently learned that I am one (nearly 40).

I suppose unless you are on the inside these families look great from the outside. Me coming from different has made it obvious. I was not raised like this. My family were not image conscious, I don’t remember any performing, my parents never spoke about others, never worried about what others had. I have never felt the need to compete. As soon as I came into this family I knew it was different. It’s sad. The family is not close, the cousins don’t have a relationship. Everyone is a closed ship. We’ve had some difficulties with oldest child, no one has offered support, no cousins coming over. I am sad about this. When we do see the cousins they are image conscious, there is no play.

@MustIgo I think sometimes that gut feeling that something is just not quite right is the first stage of us starting to see the reality behind the dysfunction. Particularly with dysfunctional families who give the outward impression of being wonderful. Aspects of how you describe your DHs family sound very familiar to me- especially the focus on being seen as the perfect family, always needing to be seen as helping the 'less fortunate' (even if it's to the detriment of their child) and your DH feeling that he must always be OK and never asking for help. It took me a very long time to see that my parents were part of the problem. I had 'difficult' siblings that they covered up for/excused/rewrote history to exonerate etc and for many years I told myself that our parents were simply doing the best they could to help us all. Even when they were unpleasant to my DH, barely spoke to me because I wouldn't do things their way, expected me to put up with terrible treatment and treated my children differently to the other grandchildren I excused this as them being stressed, expecting more of me because they knew I was strong enough to share the burden, spending less time with my DC because they knew we made sure they did lots of fun things etc. I was brought up to believe that our family was objectively 'better' than others- the way we did things was the only really 'right' way. In short, I was conditioned to put a positive slant on things that other people might challenge. It took me a very long time to see through this and I even defended my parents for years when my (very supportive) DH pointed out how badly I was being treated. Don't be surprised if your DH can't see his parents' behaviour for what it is, he will have had a lifetime of keeping up the facade. It must be really tough being the partner of someone like us and having to navigate family relationships that you can see are toxic. I gradually realised how toxic my family were as I realised that things I accepted as 'right' were things that I really didn't want to expect of my own children.

That is exactly how it feels within this family. I am made to feel that Im not good enough. I don’t know who the hell they think they are. They aren’t better than anyone else. In fact they are worse, they have lost the meaning of family. I hold my head up high, I do not want to be like them and if I have to act like them to be acceptable I’m happy to stay on the outside. But it is sad, it’s a whole load of people inaccessible. In my head, all the family gatherings, the holidays the feeling of inclusions, it’s gone. Surface level is no use to me. To be honest I wear my emotions on my face, I’m too authentic to fit, I can’t edit and I make it worse for myself. When we go to family gatherings I feel like a freak amongst the fake smiles. My kids usually run around like feral animals and we have to leave. It’s always awkward.

Mustigo

It sounds like your husband is his family of origins scapegoat. People from dysfunctional families end up
playing roles. Your role as parent here is to
prorect your children from his parents who are making influences. They really will try and steal their hearts and minds from under your very nose.

Malign not making.

What will they do with them?

@MustIgo I know what you mean about feeling sad (especially as I think you said you don't have a big family yourself) not to have the lovely close family gatherings, holidays etc that you probably expected from the family they appeared to be. But I think you have to make peace with the idea that the lovely extended family you thought you might have never actually existed. I think you would be better to gently move away from them, and encourage your DH to do the same. I'd be 'busy' when they want to meet up, or want to use your children to show off. Having been on the other side, I think you do need to point out to your DH that they way his family treat all of you is not normal or pleasant, but I'm really not surprised that he doesn't see it- it is all he's ever known and nothing that would be seen by most as overtly neglectful or abusive. I know that my DH's support and pointing out kindly when he felt I was being treated unfairly helped me see what was happening even if I couldn't recognise it at the time.

I have mentioned it a few times very subtly and the answer is always “that’s just how they are”. I’ve mentioned why don’t they make an effort on your birthday to visit but we make the effort to visit…”that’s just how they are”! It’s all normal to him. The sad thing is he is actually a very sensitive man, a really good person and he is overlooked. He is a much better man than his sibling. I think he is probably lucky to be overlooked because he has a good life, friends and hobbies and he’s liked, unlike the other who is very arrogant.

I have also had issues with my partner and his inability to ask for help. He will just go ahead with a task and struggle instead of just asking. His communication skills in this area are terrible. To be honest his communication skills in general aren’t great. I often ask him if he is ok because he outwardly doesn’t always look it but he will say I don’t know. I’ve asked him how he feels and he says I don’t know. I find this hard. I guess this is a consequence of having a narc parent?

@MustIgo yes, although it can be a symptom of having been raised in any abusive household. Not every abusive person is a narcissist. He hasn’t been taught to connect with his own feelings or reach out for help. He’s been taught that it’s his job to be ok and get on with it by himself. So that’s all he knows. He literally doesn’t know how he feels because he’s never been taught to identify how he feels - only what is needed of him.

Narcissistic personality disorder is a specific thing and you can look up the symptoms and presentation of the disorder, for your own information. You wouldn’t be able to diagnose them, of course. Two members of my DH’s family have actually been diagnosed, but we all knew before it was official, despite the fact our opinion wouldn’t count.

In my own family and others I know of, there are big problems either abusive or bordering on abusive where the parents aren’t narcissists, so whether they are or not, they do sound abusive/dysfunctional.

I think bare minimum it’s neglectful. Very much like the thread title. They went on nice holidays etc (I hear about this often, I hear about what the mum did, how amazing her choice of places were) but there was no emotional safety. I can absolutely tell this by how it feels to be part of the family and I wasn’t raised by them. None of them feel great inside, I can sense this and it’s sad but nobody will talk about it. I think you have to be raised this way to be comfortable in this type of dynamic and I just haven’t been. I suppose I just keep on raising my kids the way I want to in the end.

Yes, I observe my mother doing this to my own son.

I'm unsure how to proceed but I have no control or influence as my ex is very much an emotional abuser too and has been nothing but abusive to me imo with accusations of me being mentally ill etc. I serve a function as the problem for them all, so withdrawal is now, I see, my only sensible and healthy choice.

So, I now stay silent, don't say anything at all about anything. My teenager will spend time at my npd alcoholic mother's house ( very well concealed piss head), and I accept I will and can say nothing.

If anyone is further along in this, I wonder what your thoughts are on my saying nothing to my son about any of this? I communicate directly with him, hardly need to communicate with the ex now thus removing the ' your mum said this about you' etc alienation pattern he has implemented.

I am almost NC with my mum. I say to my son, I want you to have quality time with the people you care about - when he says to me 'ha ha in seeing gran and I know you don't like that'. I don't react.

Ref the performance to other people - it's so horrible to watch but laughable I guess. Absolutely falling over themselves to help neighbours, abusive ex's, anyone, to make them look good.

I know, that at the end, they'll be alone because of what they do to people.

Transcend there's not really any more you can do. As you said, remain neutral and don't rise to any bait from anyone. Be an example of a good person to your teen and hope he one day sees it. You may find you have a better relationship with him once he's adult and your mother is deceased. Then it'll be easier to leave the past in the past, perhaps, and any differences of opinion along with it. Or if he grows up to be a narcissist or abusive person perhaps you'll end up NC with him too. Only time will tell.

Must they will turn your DC into their cousins, if they can. And turn them against you, enmeshing them into the dysfunctional family system where you will always be an outsider. Because those are your options, enmeshment and playing your assigned role like a good little minion or problematic outsider who's trying to change things by [😱] having your own opinions and personal autonomy, with the necessary boundaries that comes with (as it does in all emotionally healthy people).

As you can see, it's unpleasant being the outsider. Combine that with a child's pre-programmed survival mechanism to appease their elders (who literally decide if they live or die, since a child can't survive by itself) and they're very vulnerable to becoming enmeshed. The more enmeshed the narc and her flying monkey (FIL) can get the DC to be, the happier they'll be with that situation, because the more enmeshed someone is the more they revolve their lives around the narc and the more willing they are to play their assigned role. If they can turn your DC into carbon copies of their cousins (or perhaps your DH, if they assign them scapegoat roles), they will.

"Help" will be an alien concept to your DH. In his world help only flows one way, from him to others. He's never going to ask for help when he has no understanding that the concept of it exists for him. The cousins being "older than their years" is a sign of parental neglect/abuse. Children grow up too fast, and become too self sufficient, because they've had to.

Unlike your DH, the cousins are not self sufficient emotionally as evidenced by them relying on external validation (hence the bragging). They may grow up narcs themselves, expecting everyone to pander to them and bolster their fragile egos constantly. They may also grow up flying monkeys, helping gather everyone else around to pander to the main narc (MIL), coming down harshly on anyone who steps outside their assigned role. Your FILs comments are totally aimed at you, it's not coincidental he holds these views (possibly all of a sudden, since you came on the scene), it's passive aggressive flying monkey behaviour.

None of it makes much sense because a child will love their partner and a grandchild love their grandparents so why bother doing what they are doing? Your family as you say are pre programmed to be people you look up to. What is is that they want? Because they already would have love.

Apart from the fact we have zero relationship with the other sibling and his family because he only has a relationship with his mum, it’s his only focus. She has kind of made sure he has no outside influences and his focus is on family and money. In a way my H is left alone and has made friends and hobbies. What does she want from this other sibling and his family? Allies? Spokespeople for her brilliance?

@MustIgo look into narcissistic supply. That is what they want from everyone and every situation. If they can’t get it from you, you become a scapegoat. If they can’t get it from the situation, they try to change the situation to suit themselves (making other people’s birthdays about themselves as an example). So, a person’s children might seem to be the centre of their world, but it’s not because they love them, it’s because they make them look good to others.

They may (and often do) offer out their children’s services to others without asking. “My son is amazing with xyz, he can do (anything I ask him to do) for you, (to make me look good)”. Then the way they talk to their family members if their family members can’t/won’t do what they’ve been told has been arranged for them will show you the kind of person they really are.