MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

@SamAndAnnie You are, of course, right. I know I need to step back even further be firmer about how/when/what I will help with. I am already viewed as the selfish/unhelpful one since I am not doing what they expected of me (which is to ignore my own life/family and care for mum as she and GB2 dictate). In many ways I think I might as well just do nothing.
When Mum decided she won't be alone at night I suggested looking at residential care/sheltered housing but she and GB2 are adamant that can never happen. I have made it clear that will not have her to live with me or become a live in carer which caused huge arguments and aggression from GB2. At the time I said I would continue to deal with her medical appointments so the problem this has created is that they now are of the opinion that I am somehow obliged to deal with all medical appointments regardless of time/date/notice etc can't expect there to be any changes in her 'medical appointment routine'. I think DM is mainly set in her ways and not considering anyone else. GB2, however, is definitely using this as a way to try to exert control and make things as hard as he can for me. Of course, this is a very stupid thing to do, as any sensible person would see that this approach will make me want to do less, not suddenly agree to do more. But then he never was that bright, despite them being convinced otherwise.
The latest position is that they have collected the cardigan and letter as they had to go to collect something else anyway. Great news! But GB2 is now claiming that the time I would be arriving to collect DM for her appointment is not convenient and I must collect her much earlier 'or else'. All of this is relayed to me by DM, who I could hear shouting unpleasant things towards/about me in the background including 'tell that bitch she needs to be here then, or else and NO I won't speak to her- this is not a discussion!!'. I have told DM that I will be there at the time previously agreed and she should be ready- if that is not convenient GB2 can take her himself or call and re-arrange to take her at a time convenient to him. I am not looking forward to potentially encountering him but won't be stepping in to the house and am very much prepared to drive away if there is any aggression.
Re- your suggestion earlier that DM could get a taxi to collect her things. I think this could be perfectly possible. She does have some cognitive decline and mobility/vision problems but I know other people in a similar situation who have an arrangement with a local cab firm and can manage this with some help. I also know that people in a similar situation use patient transport/community transport to get to and from appointments etc. Unfortunately DM is very much in the mindset that since she can't do things as she has always done, she can't do anything on her own at all. GB2 is, for reasons I can guess, very much encouraging this.

@formalwellies I would find it very difficult to have a relationship with (let alone a caring responsibility for) someone who allows their son to talk that way about/to me while we are on the phone. I know you’re entrenched and want to do what you can for her (within the limits you have chosen) but wow. I don’t think that’s ok at all.

@TranscendThis I have been doing this kind of work - trying to see my family as a group of individuals instead of a unit. Seeing us all a stand alone people. What connects me to them more than anyone else in the area? Do I want to be like these people? What do I have in common with them except that I grew up with all of us having the same last name, and that we have some shared history (which isn’t all that nice)?

Taking a step back to analyse the interactions I have with them. What was the real reason they called? Apart from a quick “how are you” that they know they must ask, was there any genuine interest shown in me? Or was it to serve their own desire to share or vent etc. In my case, that’s all it ever is. I’m still not ready to entirely cut contact, but my feelings inside are a lot more detached now than they were.

@formalwellies it’s an absolute nightmare for you.

Your brother is in for a real shock when he has to take on all the work, isn’t he?

He’s fighting you because of family dynamics, but also that he can’t control you fully (well done to you!) He’s also angry as he probably suspects that if he moves in with your mum, you will rightly step away, and it’s anger in advance IYSWIM.

The phrase ‘be careful what you wish for’ was written for the likes of him.

Could you ask GB2 who’s using the cardigan and letter as a weapon FFS to photograph the letter?

@SamAndAnnie is right. Outline the consequences.

I know it’s tough.

I hate the way medical appointments are viewed as ‘girl’s stuff’.

@TranscendThis I’m so sorry to read your story. Absolutely awful. And yes some teenage boys model their toxic dad’s behaviour. No consolation there. Keep the lines of communication open, and therapy can help immeasurably.

My partner was trauma bonded with his utterly vile mother aka The Hag. It’s taking years to unpick and heal, even with the witch dead these last two years.

Every time I pass the cemetery where she’s buried I pray (and I’m not religious at all!) for healing for him. A manifestation?

And I congratulate myself on building a massive bloody great Chernobyl style concrete sarcophagus over her grave so she can never - even from beyond the grave - damage people.

@ManchesterMonkey thank you. I don't believe the dad is totally responsible to be fair. My teenager was always difficult towards me. He is neuro divergent but in a way that is very difficult for me to parent. So the vulnerability was always there to be like this from all I observed. Plus, the strong influence of my family set this in motion a while ago.

I'm a complete alien amongst them all; which is a good thing. But it's alot to come to terms with when you're totally broken away and alone.

I'm losing any compassion for my own one unfortunately as the behaviour is relentless and very much the same as what abusers do. I'm called the abuser and gaslighter.by him which is just insane making. It's all too much. I feel that pulling away from face to face interaction is my only choice. I have alot of things to deal with personally, health wise and this really impacts my well being.

I like your description of the hag scenario. So horrible and a relief at least that one is no longer flying about on a broomstick hurting people 🙏

was advised to post in this thread after posting in Relstionships :)

I’ve been more or less estranged from my parents for the last ten years, as my dad was abusive (not physically) and my mum enabled it. I was very angry and couldn’t wait to leave home and never look back. As I’m turning thirty this year, I’ve softened somewhat and got back in touch. They acknowledge wrongdoing but don’t exactly want to talk about it, and I don’t really see the point in dredging it up but part of me is still angry. I carry the feeling that my life has no value with me every day. Has anyone been through anything similar? I feel as though I’m starting from scratch - I’ve made all the important decisions in my life on my own, so I don’t need them and there’s obviously a lot about them I don’t agree with. I suppose I’m asking has anyone been in a similar situation, and was it worth persevering?

@ElatedUmberFawn when you say “I carry the feeling that my life has no value with me every day.” are you saying you don’t see value in your own life or are you saying you don’t see that they see value in you?

I honestly felt completely despairing and hopeless last year when my parents didn’t seem to care about how I was feeling (struggling) and seemed completely detached from me/from the situation I felt I needed support with. Suicidal isn’t exactly right, because I wouldn’t leave my children to cope with that, but that was the only reason I didn’t actually consider suicide.

I felt lonely in a kind of all encompassing way.

When I learned about emotional immaturity and read the book I have mentioned on this thread, I was able to see that it was not my problem but theirs. It was extremely cathartic. The trouble is, that although there is now hope for me to heal from this stuff and I am also reading about how to help my children heal, you have to essentially abandon any hope that your parents will change.

There may be a tiny part of you that is deep down hoping that one day you’ll say the magic words or do the magic deed that will make them say how sorry they are, how much they care, how much they love and appreciate you. They’ll show interest/support, or they’ll genuinely connect with you the way you’ve always wanted them to.

But they won’t. They’re not capable. They won’t reach out, they won’t change.

So then it becomes a question of do you want to heal and grow and leave them behind, or do you want to try to have them in your life and “tolerate” their bad behaviour towards you? This is not a judgement - there are lots of reasons you might want to keep them in your life despite their bad behaviour, and if that’s what you want it’s totally your call. But when you say “worth persevering” do you mean, was there a point anyone’s broken parent suddenly gave them everything they ever needed in that relationship, I think the answer is a firm “no” from most people in this position.

You can choose to keep contact with them and manage that relationship with totally realistic expectations, or you can move on. From what you have said it was you who got back in touch with them - so you had grown enough to try to rebuild that bridge, they had not. And literally nothing you can ever say or do will change them. If you can recognise that you are healthy and loving and capable of genuine relationships, you can have that with someone else who is capable of that. Just not these people. 💐

@TranscendThis It must be so hard to see your own child become part of the dysfunction/abuse. Could you distance yourself but leave lines of communication for if/when he decides he wants to talk properly? I saw my own mum allow herself to be treated horrifically by GB1 and GB2. I firmly believe that they have/had natural tendencies to be selfish/controlling etc but their upbringing could either have challenged/mitigated/educated against this or encouraged it. By denying/excusing/reframing them as hero/victim I believe our parents taught them that there should not be consequences of their actions and their feelings matter more than everyone else, which has cemented the behaviour. I can see, however, that consistently challenging them would have been difficult. It must be even harder with a son who has a father who encourages the behaviour you want to help your son overcome. Abusers accusing others of what they are doing themselves seems to be common.

@ElatedUmberFawn Do you think there is anything positive from continuing trying to have a relationship with your parents? It sounds like they have acknowledged that the way they treated you was not good but do you think they genuinely believe that, or understand the impact on you? Or are they just appeasing you? The fact that they won't discuss it, to try to help you heal, would make me doubt how sincere they are. Personally, I think the fact that society tells us that 'family comes first' and that family is 'everything' (which is fine for kind, caring families) makes us feel that we should put a lot of effort in with our FOO, even when they don't return the favour. If the effort to reconnect with your parents is one sided, and making you feel worse, perhaps it would be better for you to put that effort in to building some new friendships instead.

@ManchesterMonkey I think you have a good point about 'anger in advance'. I know that GB2s expectation when he declared that mum must always and only be cared for by family was that I would do be the one doing the caring. He's made it clear that he also expected that I would step in to help him with child care now that mum can't. I think it's been a big shock to him that I have stood my ground and refused. In the past, whenever our parents told him no they eventually relented. He's tried emotional manipulation, arguing, shouting, aggression and none of it has worked. I can see that he's now very frustrated that I am not just quietly going to do all the work and let him have control. 'Be careful what you wish for' definitely applies to him. Having (very aggressively) 'told' me just before Xmas that he never wanted to see me again (and throwing me out of mum's house) he still seems baffled as to why I don't want to play happy families. If it wasn't so draining and relentless it would almost be amusing.

In the past, whenever our parents told him no they eventually relented. He's tried emotional manipulation, arguing, shouting, aggression and none of it has worked

Be careful because the next step for escalation is physical violence. These people who genuinely believe they've a right to xyz and to punish you if you don't give it, can be hugely dangerous.

@SamAndAnnie I am sadly only too familiar with the way that this sort of behaviour can escalate to violence. GB1 was very violent but GB2 has physically hurt to me since he came off drugs and before then it was more pushing and shoving than hitting/punching (which writing it down, is clearly not acceptable anyway). I refuse to be inside a building with GB2 unless DH or another independent adult (eg HCP/social worker visiting mum) is also there. When I collect/drop off mum from his place I wait by outside the door if he is around. I know he won't want his neighbours to see him 'lose his temper' and he never raises his voice if HCP/DH are around.

A pp mentioned that they would find it difficult to have a relationship with someone who allowed someone to speak to them as GB2 does to me. Unfortunately my parents seemed to take GB1s behaviour as a sort of benchmark. Since GB2 is not as bad as that, they never could understand why I was not willing to just ignore his unpleasant behaviour. I know that this will not change now. When GB2 recently threw me out of mum's house her initial response was that he hadn't thrown me out, since he hadn't physically forced me out (just followed me around the house shouting in my face to 'get out/never come back etc'). Then she said I should have gone for a while and come back to sort things out when he had calmed down. I have told them that I do not feel safe in his presence but they claim that this is a 'gross over-reaction' because 'he didn't hit you'. This was not the first time he had been verbally aggressive to me recently, and each time it has been worse so I am not about to put myself in a position where it does become physical violence. Of course, mum and GB2 view this as me being dramatic again (as I was when I eventually went NC with GB1).

I thought I would pop in here as I’ve read this thread for some time. Not sure how old the original thread is, but I seem to remember turning to it for solidarity over the years, but never posted here.
I’m in my forties and have dealt with a grade A narcissist mother, including going NC for a number of years, but then purposefully including her in my own family (with firm boundaries) so I could prevent my DCs from being affected by her legacy and not grow up wondering why I didn’t speak to my own family. I broke the cycle of hurt and drama, if you like. She behaved because if she didn’t, she would have lost contact to the only grandchildren.

Well, she died recently, and I’m pleased to say that I’ve stayed strong and I will not be attending her funeral next week. Nor will my DCs, who are now old enough to know the truth about her.
I’m sure the extended family will be shocked and horrified, particularly as she mostly manipulated them into thinking she was wonderful - despite them knowing she had numerous affairs. These are the staunch Catholic family members who didn’t help when I turned to them for support with her psychological, emotional and violent abuse. When they no doubt gossip about why I wasn’t at my mother’s funeral, perhaps they might possibly reflect on why. But actually, I don’t care.

I thought making such a statement would bother me more than it is, but deciding not to go is remarkably liberating. I feel freed and knowing I never have to hear her horrid, negative, cold voice makes me breathe a little easier.
I shall hug my happy little family and give myself credit for having survived that awful woman and the anxiety and horrendous childhood she gave me.
Thank you all for speaking about your experiences here over the years. It helped me recognise that I (sadly) wasn’t alone in my experiences. Wishing you peace and liberation from your trauma.

@Piccolomafortei am glad you are at peace with your dm passing and you feel iiberated and free. My circumstances are different to most on here but as awful as sounds i am waiting for dm to pass as it gives me anxiety as to how i will find out and then hopefully i will have some closure on the situation

I will have very mixed feelings. I wish it was easy enough to have only relief that they can't hurt you any more. I will feel more complex things I believe, there is still some tiny part wishing this reality was not so.
Mine is a covert one so it's infused with contradiction and confusion - ' i love you so much:, I'm here for you, here's some money etc etc is what is prrsented. Then reality and material actions behind that totally contradict all the above. Horrible.

I ended up visiting my parents today as I had been sort of guilted into it. I know I shouldn’t feel guilty, and they obviously don’t feel guilty about their behaviour, but anyway… they were telling me about how their car is broken and it’s costing my mum a lot of money to get the bus to work (my dad is retired so it’s not a problem for him). In older times, I would have offered to drive over from the town where I live and take my mum to work/to the shop. Today I just sympathised that their car is off the road and made no offer. I might hear that they have said something about this behind my back, but they didn’t ask me.

I know this is a pretty small thing, but it feels quite big to me. I have put a lot of time and energy and even money into helping them over the years. My DH has too. I also realised at the time that I was resisting offering how responsible I have felt for them since I became an adult. I’m now wondering whether that’s normal.

@Eeriefairy Well done for resisting the urge to offer. I know to most people this probably sounds like an incredibly small thing but I know it must be huge for you.

Hello. I have come across this thread and wanted to ask your thoughts on my parents in law. We have never had a close relationship. Not for want of, MIL is just very unapproachable. When the kids were small she basically avoided me, never asked if I was ok, never brought the babies anything. She was never rude, she was just not really interested. This is how I feel she is in general, not interested. You can’t get empathy from her, in fact she runs from any emotional conversations. When I had a miscarriage and we went to them and told them she didn’t even twitch. Both of them are very community oriented and do lots for others but nothing for their own kids/grandkids. Unless that is they want to “borrow” them when something comes up. Birthdays the MIL makes all about her, whether but not turning up or buying weird gifts, however it’s done it somehow manages to be about her.

Every conversation is about them, they name drop constantly. You could be half way through telling a story and the mum will interpret and randomly say things like “Peter have you heard what happened to so and so”. They have never once asked us about ourselves. Never a how are you, what is happening etc.

At the weekend during a visit the father started talking about how people who go to university are “woke”. He has always made comments about women and people of minority. I went to university and beyond. He went on to say that family is all that matters and women are best having kids young. I was much older. I went on to say that waiting has many benefits. I’ve lived, I’ve been places I have a strong sense of self and my own money. I think he has a problem with me in general. I’m not a push over and they think I’m “dramatic” because I voice my opinions.

Any way, I’m sure that this family are narcissistic, what do you all think.

I am getting in a bit of a situation because they seem to want to use my kids a lot now. It annoys me as they did and don’t do any day to day things. But they want to roll them out and like the attention they get from them. The kids want to see them and they are nice when they have them. But is all a performance and it pisses me off. I have spoken to my H, their son and he is oblivious. I feel sorry for him because he has literally raised himself. He tells stories about how he never had help with homework etc as they were busy with others, busy with other people’s kids or in the community.

sorry that was long.

The other thing that annoys me is that they brush off my input, they basically laugh me off. I’m not a stupid person, highly educated and lived in different cities. None of them have lived within 5 miles of where they born and never gone to university. They believe you should stay put. Do I threaten them or do they think I’m some stupid yuppy?

I would stay well away from them Mustigo because it’s not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist.

Do not furthermore let your kids be used as props by them. If they are too toxic for you to deal with it’s the same deal for your kids too. They will be harmed in not too dissimilar ways as to how your husband has been harmed. If your family are nice and importantly emotionally healthy then concentrate your resources on them.

And narcissistic people often are do called pillars of the community and like to swoop into “help “ others because they think the person who needs help is incapable. It’s say look at me aren’t I a good person.

Narcissistic people also have no empathy for others and tend also to be crap gift givers. This is because they do not know or care what you like and think you should be given something of their own taste.

My H is of the belief it made him proactive. Him and his sibling have been lucky and have made things of themselves because they had no real support. They basically had no choice. I think they are lucky that they aren’t female, I can’t imagine how a girl would have been treated. But I do think my partner has this sense of anxiety like he absolutely has to be ok. He never asks for support from anyone. On the outside they look brilliant, a family you would love to be part of. The reality is very different. There is this impending sense of something not right.

My family is very small, I’ve lost many members so there is no real support. I know they would have been supportive. I look at other families taking the grandkids on holidays etc. MIL is retiring soon. Her wishes are to travel and do more things in the community etc. I couldn’t help but be sad she didn’t mention spending more time with her family or helping out. Maybe I’m the unreasonable one, they don’t actually have to do anything. But it shows that we aren’t a priority, we aren’t enough, they need more. For the father to say all that matters is family it sure doesn’t match up. They don’t want family, they want the good bits, the rest you’re left to sort out yourself.

No you are not the unreasonable one. My late FIL used to bang on about family from the pulpit as a lay preacher but it reality he was disinterested in his own adult children and grandchild.

It’s very contradictory and confusing.

Yes it is but once you see it you do not unsee the dysfunctional dynamic.

No not unreasonable my mum
has never taint any interest in me that I can remember , has never asked how I am. Her interest in my children , her only grandchildren , lasted until they were around 8 and that was all for her benefit to make her look good. She wanted photos with them to show her friends , information to
oass on to make her look like a loving grandma when she couldn’t tell you what sort of food or games they liked . Step back , once they are teens they will see right through her x

I don’t know whether I ask too much. It is normal isn’t it for grandparents to get the good parts? It’s just the complete lack of presence when it’s hard that gets me. We are basically sent out in the world to promote family, to show what an amazing family we have. But it’s shit inside, everything hard we get no support for. We can’t ever ask for help or say something is hard. Well you can but she literally looks the other way, she isn’t driven by empathy. It’s fake and it feels horrible. I have no desire to promote her family, I want friends and support.