DH’s friendship with woman at work is killing our marriage

[Teaandbiscuits123456]

DH and I have been together for over 20 years and have two dc all grown up now. DH has made a very good woman friend at work and although not an affair it is very cosy iykwim. Private jokes, DMs at all hours and weekends, breaks spent in each other’s company.
I told him how this made me feel anxious and upset and his response was that that’s just how it is and he can’t help feeling like he does but insists it is just friendship. That just about broke my heart and has made me question where I figure in his life. They’ve only known each other for 2 years.
Knowing all this I’m worried I’m starting to think I might be falling out of love with him almost as a way of self-preservation if that makes any sense?
All the time they are working together I’m not sure if we can get back what we had even though I wish we could. I just don’t know what to do.

Thank you. I’ve thought a lot about emotional affairs and earlier this year I bought a book about them and asked him to read it as every conversation we’ve had about them has ended badly.
he refused to read it as he thinks EAs are a made up concept.

He’s really not a c*nt. usually he’s kind and thoughtful and a dependable dad, son and friend.

What he is doing is deeply unkind and deeply cruel. He doesnt even have the decency to end it with you.
He wants to just gaslight you and drive you to anti depressants. That isnt okay

I understand / empathise with why you feel so hazed and confused. What did I do to make a good man act this way? Etc.
The facts are you did nothing but he is not a good man to you now.

Both things can be true...he may be a good dad / have been (past tense) a good husband, but also he is now treating you in a way that’s not okay now.
If he’s responding to you in ways that hurt you,l and that show he is careless with your feelings that matters more than what he used to be like.
This is who he is now.

He isnt magically going to wake up and things go back to how they were. This is an irreversable change.
If nothing else I hope you arent washing his clothes, cooking or washing up his meals, or doing any errands for him.

Didn’t you meet with a solicitor? What happened there?

Does the OW’s DH know about this relationship?

He's not tone deaf. He's well in tune with what he wants. He isn't listening to what you want.

I think you have been passive for long enough. Time to take action.

What did your solicitor friend advise you? I would be asking him to leave and starting a divorce.

Your life will be so much better when you are free of this hanging over you. 💐

Im really sorry you are going thru this.
How are you certain it’s not Physical?
When confronted, My husband admitted to EA.
He struggles with ED so I knew it couldn’t have been physical and he definitely was not the type.
But it did not make any sense, how hard he’d pushed me away etc
They worked together. After he’d admitted to EA, he cut her off and shut it down straight away.
Suddenly we had our amazing connection back.
But I kept digging, I couldn’t believe he’d risked our 27 year marriage for an emotional connection.
I got into his phone.
It had been physical and it had been going on for over 4 years.
I contacted her husband too.
Sending best wishes 💐

I'm well, I think he maybe in love stage but it does not mean it is the right person for him. The worst thing is that he checked out from the marriage and he does care more about her feelings than yours. It is really hard place to be and in time he may realise his mistake but at this moment in time you need to look after yourself and seek legal advice regarding separation and divorce. He is showing you side that you don't know, so do not be naive re financial matters and try to act asap because he may want to protect himself.

If you can’t show your messages to your spouse, you are cheating ..simples .
Im sorry you’re going through this.
My second mistake had other women. It was years before I found out..and it was a phone bill charge that led me to the truth. I knew I’d have to explain why it was there, so examined the call log

The lies, secrecy etc drove me mad, to the point I had to deal with the gaslighting by being there in my car when he went to see the one that lived nearest. I knew where she lived, her name, where she worked. I found out about the others too..He promised he’d stopped several times, but I overheard him promising one the holiday to Ibiza…he’d already taken her to Fuerteventura..all his work meetings, were actually dates. A funeral..well he did go..but dashed to her instead of going to the pub with everyone afterwards . That was the main one, but the other 3 were less frequent..he’d go away and take them ..he’d tell me he was going as he was going out the door.
I put a tracker on my car and told him, I didn’t want him driving it any more. But it was a sports car and he liked the ‘status’ show off factor , rather than use his comparatively dull estate car and he’d just take it, so I could see where he went on my phone. I told him every time, I didn’t not give permission to use my car, but he’d take it any way.

I only stayed because he owed me a shedload of money and wouldn’t pay it back..said he was organising it but only did after some years ..I wasn’t leaving without it. Couldn’t…needed it to get somewhere to live. I moved into a bedroom at the other of the house. He was never going to leave me/ let me go if he could keep me. They each thought they were the only one that mattered…He went frantic the night he got home and found I was gone , according to the guy he rented the annexe to …drove around half the night looking places he thought I’d gone .

Guys like their side chicks for their ego and the thrill of feeling wanted by others…but they don’t usually want to lose the benefits of home . However, I think guys like that are not worth having. I’d stop being his wife at home, and I’d prepare to leave and go.
well, that’s what I did. It plagued my mind for a long time afterwards but it was the best thing.

@Sowhat1976

“He knows his behaviour is hurting you, impacting your mental health, and your relationship. He either doesn't care or he enjoys it. He is chooses to continue regardless of the impact because what he is getting from it means more to him. That's not love. I would be mortified if my behaviour was having a negative impact in someone I care about. You know what I would actually care if my behaviour impacted a stranger. Stop begging him to give a shit. He either doesn't or he likes it. I'm not sure what's worse”

This is so true. I can never get my head round the selfishness and lack of responsibility for the impact of their own behaviour people can show, even to themselves.
Affairs, emotional or physical, are carried out by people who have abdicated all responsibility for their own behaviour elsewhere, blamed it on others and backed it up with bullshit justifications and excuses.
The basic self-awareness of what they are really doing, plus any prior consideration and care of others before deciding to act, is missing.
Spouses often get vilified during affairs to enable this. If the unfaithful cares and worries about how their spouse might feel if they knew, that doesn’t help their cause or enable anything, or excuse their behaviour. It screams at your conscience that you’re a shit and you should stop doing it.
That’s pure kryptonite to the unfaithful, desperately trying to maintain a good self image whilst being the lowest of the low. To them, if they don’t care then it doesn’t matter what they do, and if they can blame the spouse, even better. Heck, they might even actually deserve it if they concentrate on their spouse’s flaws long enough and ignore their own.
A previously caring and considerate man has abandoned principal and conscience for ego and kicks, with seemingly not a care in the world for the woman he married.
I’ll never get in a million years how they can tolerate themselves, even though I know the psychology behind it backwards. Sometimes when reality hits, the lies fall away and they see themselves clearly for the first time in ages. Not that you’d feel sympathetic, but it can massively damage them, too. And they did it all themselves. Nowhere to turn to for blame any more.
Sadly I know of a suicide by an unfaithful man, who couldn’t stand themselves and what they’d done when their teenage child accidentally found out. It had all been justifiable fun up until then.
OP he’s lost the ability to give a shit because if he decided that he did, you’d be right and he’d have to stop his emotional affair and he currently just doesn’t want to.
“I’ll see who I want” is the last desperate stand of a man who is playing brinkmanship with his own wife. He knows the truth, with this statement he just hopes he can scare you off actually imposing consequences.
How much he cares will determine what he does next when he realises you won’t tolerate any more. Sadly for him, he’s going to find out that because of all this you no longer care as much as you did. Don’t blame you one bit.

It seems you have been wrestling with this for many months even to the extent of buying a book to understand it logically and somehow give yourself some permission that it’s wrong and then trying to persuade him it’s wrong.

Net outcome is that despite his gaslighting, minimising and diminished of your thoughts and feelings you know this is unacceptable but he is still stubbornly sticking to his position.

Therefore you can conclude that you are not compatible in your values, actions and marriage / life goals therefore you need to separate. This is the generous low confrontational approach and I am only suggesting it because his disagreement that this is an EA or that it’s acceptable is keeping you stuck at an impasse indefinitely where your emotional reserves and sense of self are eroded and degraded whilst his is bolstered and deeply fulfilled with this current arrangement.

You are now beyond trying to persuade him. That action is damaging you and depleting you as much now as his betrayal. Drop the rope. You and not playing his game anymore.

Agree to disagree. Your position is that you are not compatible - so that requires an end to your marriage.

A gear shift from thoughts, words, handwringing to clear actions. List out the 5 things that need to be done and start with one.

Get legal advice. Make a call to book and appointment - just do that.

Tell him the marriage is over and he needs to be out of the house by the end of May.

If you have DC tell them.
Tell your family and friends.
Look for those who support your position and move away from the deniers and minimisers.

Shine a light. Make it real. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Take the first step and the momentum will take care of itself.

You are stuck in physiological debate with him on EA which will never be resolved. So he can crack on with his approach - but your opinion is now ACTION.

Try to conserve your energy and dignity for making arrangements for the transition to a new better life rather than frittering it in futile locking horns with him.

He doesn’t care for you.
He is treating you with contempt in your own home.

Anyone deserves better than this.

Can you think of a first action / step that you could feasibly take.

I wouldn't torment yourself with this question op, his idea of love is very imature for a middle aged man and very rarely survives in the real world, I would say he is infatuated and on an extreme high with the flattery.
Two years they've known one another, sounds about right, their friendship has bled out onto their marriages, hers will be less so as her husband probably hasn't noticed as much, this is the crunch time.
This ow has become more demanding of his attention and he is complying, utterly heart breaking for you but this time is about you changing. Do your children know and your family, have you had any support, visited the GP with the actual details ? this infatuation needs bringing to light and you have currently given him numerous chances to haul it back and for it to remain private.

No pun intended but this is the climax, your displeasure and demanding loyalty is creating a deeper bond between them at the moment, you have become the enemy of their friendship and this is when emotional can fall into physical, if it hasn't already. Fuck, he's really put you through it and still he continues to gaslight you to keep his options and reputation in tact, that's a manipulative and scheming mind, he is not a kind man and is actually dangerous to your safety.

Please put yourself first, what you want is being stuffed down and you are accepting cruelty that you know you don't deserve, no one does in a marriage. I doubt whether this will last, she's younger, got young kids, has a husband who is probably younger than your h, your children will be disgusted and you are learning how to detatch, your husband is a fool and I'm sorry about that, but it in no way is a reflection on anything you have done, sometimes in life we meet, idiots, it's taken a while for your h to reveal how much of a monumental idiot he is.

It takes time to adjust your view of someone, especially your h when they have dissapointed you so much, so many marriages end over these EA's, whether couples stay together or not, I would say in a few years he will recognise how his marriage and family life have been ruined but he probably will not accept responsibility for that, he sounds the type to blame you.
I would lay money on this EA ending, but them remaining buddies into the future, as he will probably do this again with others and her, as your feelings turn to distain and disgust towards him, they eventually know the fuck up that's occured and he will search for that respectability, love and loyalty that he once had.

These men usually turn into aging middle aged creeps, alternating between pathetic sadness for themselves, humiliated father figures and angry little men who blame their wives for everthing in life.

The irony is, that if her husband ever finds out he will probably forgive her, betrayed women on the otherhand very rarely forgive and forget, such a fool he is.

He's had so many chances now, the fact he deletes the conversations shows a massive sign of guilt and disrespect.
No more cake and eat it, he needs to go.
Even if he stops talking to her then you have lost trust in him so the damage is done.

And he isnt essentially a good person.

He is able to mask and fake behaviours in a self-serving manner which allows him to keep is unacceptable behaviour going.

He has traded / degraded / obliterated your shared emotional intimacy (and your physical intimacy online even if genitalia haven’t touched - but I suspect they have) - which is the ‘essential’ precious core of any relationship.

He is not essentially good - that’s just your traumatised brain in cognitive dissonant shock and in the denial and bargaining stages of grief. The next stage is anger - which might erupt or overwhelm at any moment - I wouldn’t discharge it on him - anger is a precious energy source and I would redirect it as rocket fuel to power you through the tough decisions and actions required in the coming days and weeks. Lean on trusted friends IRL and maybe scaffold yourself emotionally with professional support at this time - you will need it and his relentless behaviour, mindset and miss treatment of you has hobbled you enough.

Of course they are not made up he’s not going to read it because he knows what he’s doing is bloody awful this ow has his attention and kindness now so he is a cunt now. Any decent dh would be saying shit yes you’re right I’m sorry but he’s not the fact he’s going out with her he is blatantly ignoring you. Like other pp have said he’s not the guy you married he’s a selfish twat and he’s putting himself and ow before you. Either way you are the one who will get hurt he’s not being respectful or caring to you now he’s changed.

Shoot me but I just did a ChatGPT to understand where an ‘emotional affair’ moves beyond that label - and in your DH case it has moved out beyond a purely emotional affair (which is emotionally intimacy) into one now adding sexual intimacy by their online activity even if their genitals haven’t touched.

Whether or not be believes an EA is made up, he is putting someone else before you in your marriage. He is also dismissing your pain and sadness which it doesn’t matter what he calls it, is not on. I’m so sorry 💐

It was the phone bill with my ex. This was back in the day when you had to have a good credit history to have a phone as you paid the bill each month. Because his credit history was dodgy, we bought both mobiles in my name.

His phone bill went from about £15 to about £300 and back then, if you paid a pound, you could get an itemised bill and there it was. He was ringing her about thirty times a day, just as he had stopped calling me.

My heart goes out to you. I remember that panicked hollow shaky feeling that never went away. Waking up and there's the blissful moment just before the reality all comes flooding in and then your guts feel like they are melting.

It's a particular type of hell when you still love them but their marriage vows are being ground into the dust.

What happened with my ex was like something from The Jeremy Kyle Show. He tried to move her and her kid into my home, expecting me to just accept her presence. That went well (!) and then he tried to beat me with a piece of wood but I caught sight of him creeping up on me in the reflection in a window and I had to call the Police. It was all very dramatic. I hate drama.

Now I'm older I wouldn't have stood for 1% of what I did back then but I loved him and tried my best to get him to see sense.

He was like a different person from the moment he met her though. She magicked him away and disposed of him 9 months later on a whim. Luckily I was angry and my tears were dry by then and when he came crawling back I told him to gtf. He was genuinely like he was under a spell.

I completely get this teaandbiscuits🫂🫂💔

This is what is worrying me 😢😞 sending hugs to op and all who have gone through this

Hi all, I just wanted to echo what @Hogglehedge said… I’ve been there and I can honestly say it almost broke me, loving someone in whom I’d invested half my life (at the time), in whom I’d believed, trusted, invested in… ‘my person’, forever. He felt the same about me…. Until he didn’t…and he couldn’t stop telling me how wonderful/amazing OW was, how he’d never believed in love until he found her… even now (18 years later) just typing this tears open a scar so deep in my heart that it’s part of my DNA .
Truly wonderful women give their everything to their man, hold nothing back because loving them means they deserve nothing less…. Then one day he suddenly (and without any warning- nothing has changed between you) he’s found his true love/soulmate and it isn’t the woman he promised to spend his life with, the one who bore his children and supported him through family issues/redundancy/financial woes/depression (pick any/all of these and add your own) and then we’re left shell shocked, in denial, in terror of this new reality. OP, I get it, you’re desperate for this not to be happening, to find some way to still believe- in him as the man you thought he was, believe in the two of you as a team.
I mean this very gently… you will see more and more evidence of just how far away from you he has CHOSEN to be and it’s gonna hurt like absolute hell my dear BUT, in time, a lot of time and a million tears, you will somehow find a way to be without him and all you once thought your life would be. I promise you that day will come and not only that but when it does you will be proud of yourself for how far you’ve come from right now and you will feel powerful instead of powerless.
I would not wish what you are going through on my worst enemy and my heart breaks for you. You posted your thread,this was your first step forward and we will be here for you at every future step 💐

When you kick him out, watch them officially get together in a few months. And he'll still claim you're paranoid for thinking there was something going on when you were together 🙄 Precisely what happened to me

This OP unfortunately

I recommend you spend some time watching videos on Affair Recovery.com.

See how they encourage the affairing partners to take responsibility, and how others actually do, in contrast to what your H is doing. Affairs are addictions and effective treatment requires quite a lot of specific steps and time.

Of course he needs to be watching these videos, but he won't, because he has decided he isn’t the problem..

Unfortunately until he realises he needs to change his attitude, I think your marriage is over anyway. You are housemates.