DH and woman friend/colleague, am I being naive or paranoid?

[Mybloodyvalentine2]

Last year a woman joined DH’s workplace, they quickly became good friends and work closely together. No issue with that, DH always been very sociable.
But at the last few work dos I joined him at I saw for myself their relationship - the easy laughter, closeness, banter and how they just ‘get’ each other. If I’m honest, that really hurt. As did a jokey comment at the Christmas party from another colleague about their workwife/husband vibe which DH quickly laughed off.
After this party I peeked at his phone (I know) and saw a few longish calls and many texts between them going back over months. There was nothing sexual but there was an intimacy of a different kind, lively, lovely fun messages, sharing things to make each other laugh, witty little comments he’d make. All non-work. Often sent when I was out (I work 4 evening shifts) or asleep.
What particularly got me was he hadn’t been honest about some things that I’d asked him about. Nothing huge but like when he’d been away for a work thing in November and I’d asked who with (it had been with her and 2 others) but he said she wasn’t there.
I confronted him and he was furious that I’d looked and read messages. I get it but all my concerns were completely ignored, and became all about me in the wrong for invading his privacy. He didn’t talk to me the next day. He then said he’d lied because while it was innocent he would have got grief from me again.
This was a month ago and things are sort of calmer but he refuses to talk about it as it’s all completely innocent and it’s my issue.
I haven’t snooped again and won’t, mainly because I feel ashamed that I did but because it upset me so much I don’t want to go there again if there are more.
Am I being overly jealous or naive? Because he’s lied about the little things I don’t know anymore and I’m beginning to mistrust and resent him which he says is completely unfair when he’s done nothing wrong. We’ve been married for 17 years, 2 older teens. She’s married with dc too.

Presumably you don't send your friends the kind of messages that the OP's dh and his 'friend' are sending each? Or behaving in the way they are?

Anyone in a mutually loving, committed and caring relationship should be mortified that a situation has escalated to the point of one checking another's messages. Yes, it's an invasion of privacy. Yes, there may be that initial flash of defensiveness, but in the absence that your spouse isn't actually a controlling and jealous jerk, that should quickly fade into the fact your number-one person is deeply hurt and struggling – and that your behaviour has caused it.

This ongoing defensiveness, rug sweeping and deprioritising forms no part of a decent, loving relationship where there is nothing covert going on.

It’s because he really doesn’t think he’s doing anything wrong in the situation. I’m the one rocking the boat and being irrational. We talked at length about this a fortnight ago and it was very clear this is his line of thinking.
If it’s not physical then it’s all totally fine.
I disagree, relationships are all about emotional connection.

I want to be the woman he enjoys spending time with, being in their company, in person or on the phone. Not ONE of the women - it’s that connection that makes a person feel emotionally connected and above all - special.

Friends are lovely. Excessive, secretive messaging isn't. It isn't rocket science.

I bet you met your dh's bff and vice versa, even all socialised together? It's when it is kept separate and the spouse lies about issues like who was on work away days that it becomes a problem.

Exactly. I don't know what bits to believe anymore and that makes me feel unsure and uncomfortable.

I just want to give another perspective of this, OP. I work with the head of our team, who is male. We've worked together for 4 years and have subsequently formed a strong connection with similar logical thinking and work habits. Both of us are slight workaholic.

Over the years, we've shared a bit of banter and discussed our personal lives. However, he absolutely loves his wife. Talks about her all the time and is proud of her and their marriage. It's so lovely to hear and I'm in awe of both of them. He's like my brother, and although I've never met his wife, I love how their marriage is solid.

But she also has mental health issues, which makes her insecure at times and they go through their own marital issues. Nothing different to the rest of us, but he tries to protect her feelings and loves her so much, he doesn't want her to worry.

He would never cheat, not even emotionally, and his love is clear to everyone. Would he get mad if she looked through his phone? Of course he would. But doesn't mean he is cheating.

I just want to give another perspective of this, OP. I work with the head of our team, who is male. We've worked together for 4 years and have subsequently formed a strong connection with similar logical thinking and work habits. Both of us are slight workaholic.

Over the years, we've shared a bit of banter and discussed our personal lives. However, he absolutely loves his wife. Talks about her all the time and is proud of her and their marriage. It's so lovely to hear and I'm in awe of both of them. He's like my brother, and although I've never met his wife, I love how their marriage is solid.

But she also has mental health issues, which makes her insecure at times and they go through their own marital issues. Nothing different to the rest of us, but he tries to protect her feelings and loves her so much, he doesn't want her to worry.

He would never cheat, not even emotionally, and his love is clear to everyone. Would he get mad if she looked through his phone? Of course he would. But doesn't mean he is cheating.

What's 'excessive', though? That's pretty subjective.

And while I agree that 'secretive' messaging isn't good, obviously, the OP's (to me) massive overreaction, and the usual tribe saying men only befriend women they want to shag, might explain, if not excuse that?

I certainly met DH's older female friend, but I didn't much like her, and their friendship was very much a work-related one, so consisted mostly of drinks after work, or lunches during the working day, or yes, work away days (which was actually how they met). I certainly had dinner at her house, once, and I think we once went to the theatre together as a trio (to see Ben Whishaw's Hamlet, which she loved, and I thought wasn't much good), but she wasn't someone I saw as a potential friend, and she visibly had just as little interest in me.

One of my male friends did also subsequently become friends with DH, but the two closest ones don't really know him.

'What's 'excessive', though? That's pretty subjective'

Yes I cant give you an exact number I would say enough to make the op feel uncomfortable. All done while she is out or in bed.

I can never understand how people can't see the difference between just being friends with the opposite sex and inappropriate overly cosy/intimate messaging yet here we are

OP, this is a recent thread that is remarkably similar to your situation. The OP of that thread commented above but I thought it would be useful for you to see the parallels of her DH's EA, and how she handled the situation like a rock star. Good luck.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5391850-something-isnt-right-emotional-affair-or-just-friends

But again, 'inappropriately overly cosy/intimate' messaging is totally subjective.

I think a lot of Mners are quite low energy, aren't good at friendships, and seem to see relationships in general as difficult and demanding, like a cake there's not very much of to go around. Whereas I don't see myself in those terms.

I'm happily married, but I don't expect DH to take care of all my emotional needs by any means. My friendships are important to me, I make space for them in my life, and certainly close friends, male or female, know things about me that my DH doesn't know, and see sides of me that he doesn't see. This doesn't 'lessen' my marriage. If anything, it strengthens it. I would never want to be solely reliant on one relationship for everything. I don't think that's healthy. Good friendships nurture a marriage.

Don't ignore your gut OP. My exDH did this to me twice.

The first time I allowed him to gaslight me and I nearly lost my mind. He then got another job and never mentioned the first colleague again. At this new job he got friendly with another women and the gas lighting began again. This time i trusted my gut and did not back down when i started to question him and look into things in more detail. He moved straight in with his colleague when asked to leave the home.

'But again, 'inappropriately overly cosy/intimate' messaging is totally subjective'

It really isn't. My dh has female friends. They send funny gifs/memes etc <not emotional oversharing>. He isnt remotely secretive about it. If he was doing it late at night while I was in bed or when I was out, lying about if they were on work away days then that would be inappropriate. Obviously.

Thank you for this.
I read this below from that thread and my god, did it resonate

I think some men truly believe they are such good guys that they can't believe it themselves.

I see your point and perhaps I didn’t explain myself very well. Obviously friendship is incredibly important and necessary to be happy. When I said emotional connection I suppose I was referring to the level where you really, really click with someone, you ‘get’ them and they ‘get’ you.
I don’t think that happens very often in life and when it does it’s really special. It’s what make you want to be with that person for life maybe.
Knowing he has found this with a woman he also works closely with and spends time with and messages when not together is pretty painful.
especially when he refuses to understand

To add, he has other women friends and I have male friends. We care about them and enjoy their company but it’s not secretive, he tells me about them and what they’re up to as do I.
They also (I assume) don’t tell him they are their very fave person.

@Mybloodyvalentine2 agree with you. It’s more than a friendship. They are feeding and bouncing off each other. There’s no need for out of work contact. Late night texts and calls even more telling as that’s usually time for your partner when you think of no one else. Have you noticed anything else? Any changes in intimacy? It’s telling if they do something different or change kissing techniques as well.

I think this is quite harsh, many women have lived long marriages with many friends involved, you don't get to large milestones without interaction with the world.

And this is exactly the point, you are experienced enough to know when something is different, when your gut instincts kick in, it is usually because you are not watching, not controlling, not trying to stop friendships. A completely new dynamic occurs, you can feel the difference, the pulling away of a husbands attention is blindingly obvious in many cases.

Wives will feel neglected, taken for granted and pushed away from any sort of connection, thats not paranoia, it's fact, and the way you make and keep friendships along side of your marriage has little to do with two people making a connection that involves primary friendship of the opposite sex, infatuation and sexual tension.

Naive. It is never 72 year old Keith from accounts who suddenly ‘gets’ them is it😂 I’ve been through it myself OP, my ex’s work wife was a very pretty 25 year old gym bunny who obviously needed all his manly advice and guidance.
I dumped him and she abruptly got back with the father of her children, so my ex was left dangling.
I think you have to come to terms that you will probably never have any proof of any wrong doing, and decide whether or not you can continue in the marriage because of the way his behaviour makes you feel

He lied to you at least once.

He can't put all this on you - his behaviour with her, his behaviour in lying to you, and his behaviour in refusing to change anythingnhe's doing and making outbthat you're the only problem... not exactly the behaviour of a man who is as committed to not ruining a good thing as he expects you to be.

I'd be getting my ducks in a row, because he's not gonna change a thing aboutbthe situation, and your resentment will only grow.

I am so sorry.

The connection between a married couple should be completly different to any other person outside of the marriage.

This is what keeps couples together for lifetimes.

And yet my friendships with men, while entirely platonic, have often involved what many Mners would term 'emotional affair' territory, but which, for me, is entirely allowable affection and personal exchanges, which seem, for Mners, to be OK if your friend isn't opposite sex.

But it's different anyway! I mean, I've been living with DH since 1994, we've moved around the world together, we're married, we own a house together, we share finances, we share a child -- we're fully committed to one another. I don't have that relationship with any of my friends, male or female.

Why are you so dead set on making OP feel that she is wrong? The OP feels like he has the same connection with this woman. She already feels terrible that her husband is lying to her and hiding the friendship. It is not normal or healthy to lie about a friendship. But he is lying and defensive and is putting this friendship over his wife's needs.

OP doesn't have to accept his emotional reliance on another woman. It is cruel and completely unsupportive to keep pushing your narrative that it is just fine. Essentially telling her to suck it up and suffer in silence is going to destroy her. OP isn't fine and her feelings matter in this.