DH and woman friend/colleague, am I being naive or paranoid?

[Mybloodyvalentine2]

Last year a woman joined DH’s workplace, they quickly became good friends and work closely together. No issue with that, DH always been very sociable.
But at the last few work dos I joined him at I saw for myself their relationship - the easy laughter, closeness, banter and how they just ‘get’ each other. If I’m honest, that really hurt. As did a jokey comment at the Christmas party from another colleague about their workwife/husband vibe which DH quickly laughed off.
After this party I peeked at his phone (I know) and saw a few longish calls and many texts between them going back over months. There was nothing sexual but there was an intimacy of a different kind, lively, lovely fun messages, sharing things to make each other laugh, witty little comments he’d make. All non-work. Often sent when I was out (I work 4 evening shifts) or asleep.
What particularly got me was he hadn’t been honest about some things that I’d asked him about. Nothing huge but like when he’d been away for a work thing in November and I’d asked who with (it had been with her and 2 others) but he said she wasn’t there.
I confronted him and he was furious that I’d looked and read messages. I get it but all my concerns were completely ignored, and became all about me in the wrong for invading his privacy. He didn’t talk to me the next day. He then said he’d lied because while it was innocent he would have got grief from me again.
This was a month ago and things are sort of calmer but he refuses to talk about it as it’s all completely innocent and it’s my issue.
I haven’t snooped again and won’t, mainly because I feel ashamed that I did but because it upset me so much I don’t want to go there again if there are more.
Am I being overly jealous or naive? Because he’s lied about the little things I don’t know anymore and I’m beginning to mistrust and resent him which he says is completely unfair when he’s done nothing wrong. We’ve been married for 17 years, 2 older teens. She’s married with dc too.

This says extremely eloquently what I wanted to say.

Thanks for sharing this. It sounds very much like what is happening here. It’s very honest of you too x
If you’re okay to answer I would like to ask you how you felt when you found out DH had seen the messages. I only ask because when mine did it all became about me being in the wrong and the actual message volume and content became ignored and irrelevant almost. I know what I did was wrong but he seems to focus only on that so I’m the bad one and he’s not to blame at all. This is what messes with my head.

If she was just a mate surely her plus her dh would've socialised with you both.

He lied because their contact is excessive and absolutely inappropriate.

Snoop again. I'd bet he's changed his pin or messages are now set to disappear.

This is not ok op, they're too close and it needs to stop, or can you maybe invite her plus dh over for dinner and see wtf is going on a bit more closely?

You also sound really concerned for how your DH felt when you say that it was worse for him because feelings were involved. This is what I say to my DH but for he says if sex isn’t involved then it’s completely innocent.

And that you felt ashamed for all the contact whereas DH makes me feel ashamed for looking at his phone.

Possibly an unpopular opinion on MN, but personally I feel if there is just cause, which you clearly had, OP, then looking at someone's phone is the right thing to do. Afterall, who wants to live a lie in the dark?

As a PP said, there are many threads re emotional affairs on MN, and I too would suggest you read through - you may find them quite insightful and recognise other women's experiences in your own. The blame-shifting that these men try to do is really quite unreal. Very audacious.

@Ohcrap082024 has made an excellent post IMO. Maybe this could be your next move.

I think the moment you start feeling powerless in all this is the moment you acknowledge that and ask yourself what exactly it is you can do to change this. Never underestimate the shortness of life. We all deserve to be surrounded by loyal people who have our backs and treat us with the kindness and respect we offer them.

Human beings are often loathe to give up something that makes us feel good. Especially when it includes big dollops of dopamine and regular ego boosts.

It's clearly not a work friendship; it's a work flirtation.

He will defend his 'right' to it because it's making him feel good and if nothing physical has happened yet, he will feel that he has done nothing wrong.

You 'snooped' because you can see that this situation is a potential threat to your marriage, not because you're a regular 'snooper'.

He lied to you because he is protecting his source of feel-good chemicals his brain is enjoying and becoming addicted to.

I doubt that he would be happy if you had a similar relationship with a man but people who are involved in emotional and physical affairs justify it to themselves any way they can (usually by comparing it unfavorably to their primary relationship/marriage partner. Which isn't a fair comparison because the affair partner provides dopamine which enhances that relationship).

I think all you can realistically do at this point is make very clear to him that his flirtatious relationship with this woman has placed your marriage in a vulnerable position and that you just hope that ultimately, he will do the right thing.

I only ask because when mine did it all became about me being in the wrong and the actual message volume and content became ignored and irrelevant almost. I know what I did was wrong but he seems to focus only on that so I’m the bad one and he’s not to blame at all. This is what messes with my head.

This is classic affair behaviour. Look up DARVO. He is deflecting his guilt onto you because it directly conflicts with his self image as a good guy. Cognitive dissonance at its finest. Someone else has to be at fault.

My husband had an affair, did exactly the same when I found out purely by accident. I used the family computer and saw all his emails because he left it logged in and it was open when I unlocked it so I couldn't miss it. All he cared about was that I had been 'spying on him', not about what I had found through his own idiocy.

I hadn’t heard of DARVO before today.

That comment about ‘my most fave colleague in the office’ etc does not sound at all like a normal friendship. I mean, would you ever send that to a female friend?

In my last work place I had a very close male friend but I would never have felt the need to send something like that. (I also became very friendly with his wife - because friends get to know each other’s partners, too - but it sounds like that is not the case with this woman?)

It is absolutely possible to dial down a work friendship and I would say you need to be sitting down with your husband and talking very clearly about the fact that your marriage will almost certainly end - or at the very least be badly damaged - if he does not manage to do that. If he’d rather stay friends with her than stay married to you - well, sadly, there is your answer.

I couldn't stay married to a man who would choose a colleague over my feelings.

He is gaslighting you. Please look into emotional abuse/gaslighting/manipulation.

All the advice above is great. It's coming from people who have been in your situation and are out the other side.

It's bloody AMAZING on the other side. You can do this.

I literally say this all the time! The affair isn't one big decision but lots of little ones and lots of opportunities to pull back and stop.

I have just been thinking about my last paragraph and how it could be viewed as a very submissive response.

There is an alternative and that is to take control and leave the marriage. It may make him wake up but it may well go into his cognitive dissonance bag of 'it's your fault/marriage wasn't good' items.

I think you wrote in one of your posts that he wants things to be better between the 2 of you so he's already justifying his behavior to himself (and to you).

'And that you felt ashamed for all the contact whereas DH makes me feel ashamed for looking at his phone'

This is classic, as if having a look at his messages in any way, shape or form is bad compared to his inappropriate relationship with her. The arsiness and defensiveness is very typical when rumbled.

This!

there is nothing that i would prioritise over my dh/marriage

@Mybloodyvalentine2 it wasn’t wrong of you to look at his phone, as you had suspicions and your gut was right. People only get angry if they have something to lose and they are on the wrong. I fear your husband would rather lose you than the work ow the way he’s carrying on. People saying she is his work wife is very telling - their intimacy hasn’t gone unnoticed.
It’s time to give him an ultimatum - not that he stops Contact with her only, he leaves his job. It’s time you go nuclear on this.

@Mybloodyvalentine2 "it all became about me being in the wrong and the actual message volume and content became ignored and irrelevant almost. I know what I did was wrong but he seems to focus only on that so I’m the bad one and he’s not to blame at all. "

Of course he is! He's deflecting. It neatly shuts down any further conversation about his dodgy extra curricular activities and makes you feel like a right bitch. Bingo, a double whammy and a win win for him! It's an age old technique used by anyone in the wrong, but more often than not by men having affairs. You have every reason to be concerned - he'll be shagging her next stop.

I don’t think it would end as a physical affair. But I do think there is something there. A deeper connection between them that he insists is innocent, but how can it be. Emotional connection should be with a wife not a friend surely?

Yep I had something similar too -pretty sure it wasn’t physical but years after it happened I found a drawful stuffed away of songs/poems he had written when he clearly had a ‘thing’ for this person who also did casual work for us ( she was 21, he was 41) -all very mills and boon stuff about being together and you are the sun, moon, stars stuff . He is adamant it was all in his head and one sided - although they did used to text a lot too - whilst I stayed and weren’t ‘unhappy’ - even 9 years later I don’t feel 100% as I did before and am very wary of these kinds of close friendships when others mention them , especially when they aren’t old long standing ones and the other person is attractive

Sorry OP, but these things usually do turn physical. I think you're being very naive. And yes, of course emotional connection should be with you and not another woman. But surely you already know that.

Yes it is often how starts. He'll now be telling his bff about his snooping wife and how awful it is, she'll coo and mop his troubled brow and it'll move up a gear.

I hope not op but it has all the classics signs of an affair in the making.

If he let's you see his messages, if he brings you out on social dos and her dh attends too, great. If he remains uppity and secretive with his phone snoop further.

you’re not being unreasonable.
It may be innocent, but the lying and secrecy are the real issue, not the friendship itself. Emotional closeness, frequent personal contact, and hiding details would unsettle most people — especially after 17 years together.
You were wrong to snoop, and you’ve owned that. But it doesn’t cancel out your feelings or his responsibility to reassure you. Refusing to discuss it and saying it’s “all your issue” isn’t fair and will only breed mistrust.
This isn’t about jealousy — it’s about honesty, boundaries, and feeling emotionally safe in your marriage.

Whilst I appreciate that general snooping is wrong , sometimes if you are getting a feeling that something is off it’s the only way you find out and save yourselves often years of being made an idiot of - I certainly wish I had snooped on texts when I had suspicions 10 years before I found what I did -

This is how my husband’s affair started… seemingly innocent at first but then feelings got involved and as they only ever saw each other in settings when they were on their best behaviour they had unrealistic opinions on each others characters. They didn’t date so never saw each other in real life settings, a very distorted view. I found out and confronted him, he left me that day and moved in with her, before they’d even had sex or dated or anything of any substance. Within about 3m they hated each other, massive problems. He had a breakdown, lost his job which meant no money or car, our adult children were angry, but were still in touch with him, they said all he did was cry. He threw his life away for nothing.
3yrs later he lives in a house share with 3 other divorced men. He has a lower income job, few friends, sees our dc infrequently as they have their own lives, and he has to beg, he’s seen his eldest (my step) only 3 times in 3 yrs.

Read him this and see if he’d like to get his act together. In fact it’d be worse for him, she’s married, my husband’s affair partner was single.

Saying that, it feels right.

Lots of the messages were her thanking him for things he’d helped her out with on the projects. And how great he is to have done this. I think he took her under his wing a bit when she started there and that created this coziness between them.
Great that he’s a nice bloke but I can see why she feels quite special to him.
there’s another work social next month and I’m tempted to calmly let her know I know. I hope it might make her cool off a bit especially if it could threaten her marriage too.