DH and woman friend/colleague, am I being naive or paranoid?

[Mybloodyvalentine2]

Last year a woman joined DH’s workplace, they quickly became good friends and work closely together. No issue with that, DH always been very sociable.
But at the last few work dos I joined him at I saw for myself their relationship - the easy laughter, closeness, banter and how they just ‘get’ each other. If I’m honest, that really hurt. As did a jokey comment at the Christmas party from another colleague about their workwife/husband vibe which DH quickly laughed off.
After this party I peeked at his phone (I know) and saw a few longish calls and many texts between them going back over months. There was nothing sexual but there was an intimacy of a different kind, lively, lovely fun messages, sharing things to make each other laugh, witty little comments he’d make. All non-work. Often sent when I was out (I work 4 evening shifts) or asleep.
What particularly got me was he hadn’t been honest about some things that I’d asked him about. Nothing huge but like when he’d been away for a work thing in November and I’d asked who with (it had been with her and 2 others) but he said she wasn’t there.
I confronted him and he was furious that I’d looked and read messages. I get it but all my concerns were completely ignored, and became all about me in the wrong for invading his privacy. He didn’t talk to me the next day. He then said he’d lied because while it was innocent he would have got grief from me again.
This was a month ago and things are sort of calmer but he refuses to talk about it as it’s all completely innocent and it’s my issue.
I haven’t snooped again and won’t, mainly because I feel ashamed that I did but because it upset me so much I don’t want to go there again if there are more.
Am I being overly jealous or naive? Because he’s lied about the little things I don’t know anymore and I’m beginning to mistrust and resent him which he says is completely unfair when he’s done nothing wrong. We’ve been married for 17 years, 2 older teens. She’s married with dc too.

If ypu have a word with her then she will simply tell your DH and you will become the bad one again.

@Ohcrap082024 's post is excellent. Your husband is the one you need to deal with, calmly and quietly.

Another vote for @Ohcrap082024 post being spot on.

She's not the problem. He is. Also, don't feel guilty for 'snooping' - you knew something was going on, you needed it to be confirmed. You confirmed it. We all find out somehow.

Any "friendship" that comes with secrecy and lies is a no. His choice to double down and not change his behaviour is nasty. How dare he.

If it disrupts your peace you have every right to ask for it to stop. And of course, he has every right to say no... it's how you deal with that response - only you can decide. I asked my H to leave. He left. We're working through it, and it's a long story, but my god it's tough.

OP. Your head must be in a bit of a spin.
You've been married a long time, long enough to confidently say you know your DP enough to not have needed to investigate his friendships before.
So something has changed for him and your gut and your intellect knows you have to do something because freezing is not a safe option.
Now might be time to consider talking to someone who can help you figure things out. Quietly. Without involving your H.
Because it's not all about him and what he wants and feels entitled to.
Good luck.

I’ve been on here a long time (different user names). I am well into my 50s.

The best gift from aging and the menopause is the ability to sniff out a bullshitter.

He’s lying to himself. They all do this to justify their thoughts and actions. It’s not too late @Mybloodyvalentine2but she is not the problem.

Do not try to warn her off. You are married to him, not her. You were right to look at his phone. Is he able to tell you why he messages her during the evening or even later? If she’s just a work friend?

He refuses to talk about it so I don’t know why he messages or calls when I’m at work or asleep. My guess is he’s bored and wants a cosy friendly chat together.
Now he knows I know it’s likely to be that he doesn’t want me to see him on his phone because I’ll get pissed off or upset.

And yes I think you’re right that he’s lying to himself and turning it on me for catching him out and ruining his fun

Mm I think you were right to look at his phone. He wasn’t being honest with you and continues so, how else are you to know what he’s up to? You’re severely under-reacting I think. This is an emotional affair, even if he won’t admit it to you, or even himself.

I feel gross even admitting this but I found myself in an emotional affair many years ago, with a colleague. I was single but he was married with very young children and it all started off terribly innocently but the messages got more and more frequent, he began calling me while his wife was at work, she got mentioned in conversation less and less, no one understands him like I do… you get the idea. He was totally in love with me, and said as much. It was then (and the fact that he physically tried it on with me!) that I took a massive step back and frankly gave myself a mental slap. I feel awful looking back, his poor wife knew it wasn’t quite right but he denied denied denied, I’m ashamed to say I minimised when she contacted me directly and I guess she decided to bury it for the sake of their family.

It’s hard to know what to say for the best. He’s already prioritising this ‘friendship’ over your relationship by continuing despite knowing it upsets you. I’m sorry.

Thank you for your honesty. Helps to hear the other side in a way too.
May I ask what she said when she approached you?

Because he’s denying how he feels about this woman too.

I’m cringing thinking about it, honestly. But because I was such a shit, not because of her.
Initially she flew off the handle and sent me some absolutely raging texts basically telling me to back off and what the fuck am I playing at etc. I didn’t reply to those, but spoke with her husband, of course 🤢, and I presume he smoothed things over with her. She couldn’t get it out of her head though, which is understandable, and she messaged again a few months later, asking me for screenshots of our chats as he’d started deleting the messages his end after the first confrontation. So I sent them, ‘safe’ in the knowledge there was no flirty chat but the comfortable, easy nature of the relentless messaging was pretty heartbreaking for her I think. She called me in floods of tears and basically laid it all on the line, which in turn made me block the husband everywhere and say I wasn’t having any extra contact with him anymore which lead to him confessing his undying love and making his move. Several times. So I was a little misleading in my original post, it wasn’t just him coming on strong that stopped it really, it was my conscience being well and truly clobbered by his poor wife.
A confrontation though has the potential to truly backfire, I fear. If more feelings were involved on my side or were I more vindictive, would I consider that to be a win on my part? Possibly. I would’ve got what I wanted, I suppose.

I’m so keen to contact her, because I wonder what she’s playing at too.

thanks for your reply x

what did you say to her husband?

Why do you wonder what she's doing? She's hardly likely to say 'I really fancy your husband and we're having an emotional affair'. She'll brush it off, or tell you you're being very offensive to even suggest such a thing, and then she'll tell your husband that you confronted her. They'll dig in deeper and spend more time than ever together, supporting each other through this 'difficult time'.

@Ohcrap082024 gave you tge perfect wording upthread. Focus on communicating with your dh and decide between you where you go from here.

sorry but I agree with @SirChenjins overall, I don’t think much good can really come from contacting her. She is well aware of you and hasn’t cared thus far, unfortunately. It’s unlikely, I think, you’ll get open and honest communication from her.. even less likely than it is to get it from your husband.

I know. I think I just have a lot of anger towards H and her and don’t really know what to do with it. It’s hard and a lonely place to be.
He refuses to even discuss it and thinks I'm being an hysterical irrational woman. I was in floods of tears and he just walked off and I found him on his phone.

Agree with this. It hasn’t bothered her that yoj are his wife thus so far. Does her husband come to events are I think you need to have a word with him.

Your husband is being cruel and callous towards you, I dare say you barely recognise him, it’s really sad that you realise he won’t chose you over her when he should 100% always chose you. I think they may already be having a physical affair to be honest.

Op could you separate out a few things.

In a long marriage, when you have a big disagreement like this - the response of your partner is obviously part of the issue.

If he had sat down and said 'oh god, I'm so sorry this has hurt you. She means a lot to me as a friend and it would really be hard to let that go - but obviously you are my wife, you come first and I want to assure you that I love you - '

then you would be feeling completely different wouldn't you?

so this is not JUST about their relationship that you discovered through the messages.

it's about his complete disregard for your tears, your hurt, yourr feeling of abandonment and disrespect.

I know how it's easy to speak from the other side of a computer - but if you want this to work, obviously he is going to need to engage properly with you on your feelings.

Don't do the 'pick me ' dance - just be absolutely clear what your boundaries are and then set them>. however much it hurts

because if you don't you will live in agony until this is resolved.

eg boundary could be - couples therapy starting right now -

Have you sat him down and said word for word what @Ohcrap082024 said?

If he had sat down and said 'oh god, I'm so sorry this has hurt you. She means a lot to me as a friend and it would really be hard to let that go - but obviously you are my wife, you come first and I want to assure you that I love you - '

yes, this 100%

i did say something similar just before Christmas but he refuses to listen and completely thinks he’s in the right so won’t change anything

Your problem here is the intimacy.

Ask him how many male colleagues he has this level of one to one private banter with (frequency, intensity), or even how many male friends outside the workplace. It's probably none isn't it? It's basically low level flirting despite not being sexual (yet/that you've seen), and they're both thriving on that attention they're lavishing on each other. And that's the problem - because this is the attention they should be directing at their actual partners. This is how affairs start.

I’m beginning to mistrust and resent him which he says is completely unfair when he’s done nothing wrong.

But you only mistrust him because he HAS done something wrong - by his own admission he LIED to you about her not being there when she was. If you hadn't looked at his phone he would presumably still be lying to you and you'd be none the wiser.

I think he needs a short sharp shock, OP. Cheaters are motivated by loss. Currently he isn't afraid of losing anything (except her). Whether you want to rebuild your relationship or you're so disgusted by his behaviour that you want out anyway then either way I think you need to ask him to leave.

Tell people in real life that he spends hours talking with and messaging another woman when you're at work. Tell them that he's lied about her. Tell him that you're not sure you want to remain in a relationship with a man who has so little respect for you.

At the moment he thinks he's got two of you. Remove yourself from the equation. Force his hand. Take back control. Make him think HE might lose YOU. Oddly, in doing this you might get him back.

Basically, at the moment he thinks he is in control of what happens next. Pull the rug from under him. Stop being the reliable dependable wife who he can disrespect and lie to and who will still stick around. Show him that, while he may not respect you, you still respect yourself.

Make him worry that you might choose not to continue the marriage. Make him try to win you back. I'd want him to move out to give me space, I'd want him to tell his parents and beat friend what he's been up to including the lying, I'd want individual counselling for him to work out why he thinks it's OK for him to behave like a massive prick. If he did all that I'd consider relationship counselling. Id not let him move back in until he'd proved he was worthy of committing to.

I’m sorry op but you are right to be worried.
It might not ever turn physical but it’s already so disrespectful to your feelings.
Your husband needs to apologise, stop and regain your trust and respect.
He knows his hurting you and for what.. His ego, I’m sorry you must feel terrible reading these comments.

Agree with this comment, and also the excellent post by Avidwriter.