DH and woman friend/colleague, am I being naive or paranoid?

[Mybloodyvalentine2]

Last year a woman joined DH’s workplace, they quickly became good friends and work closely together. No issue with that, DH always been very sociable.
But at the last few work dos I joined him at I saw for myself their relationship - the easy laughter, closeness, banter and how they just ‘get’ each other. If I’m honest, that really hurt. As did a jokey comment at the Christmas party from another colleague about their workwife/husband vibe which DH quickly laughed off.
After this party I peeked at his phone (I know) and saw a few longish calls and many texts between them going back over months. There was nothing sexual but there was an intimacy of a different kind, lively, lovely fun messages, sharing things to make each other laugh, witty little comments he’d make. All non-work. Often sent when I was out (I work 4 evening shifts) or asleep.
What particularly got me was he hadn’t been honest about some things that I’d asked him about. Nothing huge but like when he’d been away for a work thing in November and I’d asked who with (it had been with her and 2 others) but he said she wasn’t there.
I confronted him and he was furious that I’d looked and read messages. I get it but all my concerns were completely ignored, and became all about me in the wrong for invading his privacy. He didn’t talk to me the next day. He then said he’d lied because while it was innocent he would have got grief from me again.
This was a month ago and things are sort of calmer but he refuses to talk about it as it’s all completely innocent and it’s my issue.
I haven’t snooped again and won’t, mainly because I feel ashamed that I did but because it upset me so much I don’t want to go there again if there are more.
Am I being overly jealous or naive? Because he’s lied about the little things I don’t know anymore and I’m beginning to mistrust and resent him which he says is completely unfair when he’s done nothing wrong. We’ve been married for 17 years, 2 older teens. She’s married with dc too.

You are right

He is wrong.

But that doesn't make it any easier, it's very unfair and extremely hurtful to be in this possition, essentially you can't win without coming out of it unscathed and harmed.

Your h is currently harming you.

This makes him a very unsafe person to know, personally I would be disengaging and limiting his relationship between you as strangers. It's like a game of chess with a million variables, you are drawn into a game you never expected or ever wanted, your peace of mind shot and your nerves so on edge you feel like your hanging over a cliff, the anxiety is colossal.

You just want the pain to end and the only one who could end it is the one who has stabbed you in the back and caused that pain.
You are clearly wanting mercy from his cruelty and he has up to this point denied that, in fact he's twisted the knife and blamed you for your insecurity. I honestly don't know the answer, extremely clever women have tried figuring the best way to stop these car crash infatuations and all roads seem to go nowhere.

They play out and only time will tell, if you seek knowledge or defend yourself he will call you crazy, it's par for the course, it really is a mind fuck and I hope in the future in whatever way you can, repay this favour back towards him in some way, shape or form, whether together or apart.

He deserves retribution for his cruel behaviour.
Consequenses should be now on your mind, you have already given him fair warning and he has ignored you, some men are like this, utter scum.

At least you know what he is now.

I think @Mybloodyvalentine2 following on from
my post awhile ago - very often this is all about them getting an ego buzz at the point life goes bit Groundhog Day - it could be anyone really semi attractive that they get on with - quite often I don’t think it’s that they even want a relationship Or to blow up their marriage - it’s that they want something that is a nice little secretive ‘buzz’ in the day to day getting by — something that feels fresh and new and yes is deeply hurtful to the poor bugger unaware if this.. problem is that one or the other person indulging their ego this way tends to go too far at some point and it all blows up - so many decent marriages have ended in such away sadly - as one persons ‘bit of fluffing ego boosting’ is another persons - LTB . I’ve been on both sides of this at some point sadly, betrayer (1st marriage ) and betrayed

What he is saying there is he is prepared to choose her over you

I couldn’t tolerate this. He is having an emotional affair and gaslighting you. He is choosing this relationship over you and your mental well-being. I would ask for space. Let him know that you’re not prepared to put up with it any longer

I hope you can get through to him. He sounds like he is lying to himself as well as you.

You arn't risking a happy home, he is.

You currently do not have a happy home because he is happy and you are unhappy.

How can that possibly work, being in a marriage is not about trusting one another blindly, you must work to keep the connection alive, to make one another feel safe secure and loved, it should be second nature to put one another first.

Love is not watching your spouse in pain.

OP, a man who loves you would put you first. His anger and deflection show he knows he is wrong. You are afraid to discuss it. Surely you know this isn't normal. Your marriage has three people in it now as he has let her come between you two. Are you honestly okay with this? It is okay to have boundaries. If he wants to cross them then he clearly cares more about this woman than he does you, his wife. You deserve better OP.

In six months time or less, this will be a full blown affair.

His outrage over your finding out the intimacy behind your back by looking through his phone is very telling. And his lies about it.

I bet he will now work very hard to hide his comms with this woman.

I’m afraid he is choosing her over you by saying he won’t stop being friends with her.

It is up to you to decide what you feel is unacceptable.

For context im in a same sex marriage. My wife has a female friend she texts daily because she doesn't live locally. They chat all the time. Sometimes I ask what they're talking about at the moment so my wife shows me her recent messages (although I've never asked her to do that) and discusses them with me. I trust her 100% and im not jealous of her friendship. In my opinion, friends of partners are only OK if partners are transparent about the friendship and the partner feels safe about it. The minute there's jealousy or doubt then there's a problem. My best female friend is also my wife's friend now and they text each other too, not as often as we do, but we share our lives. I dont have much in common with my wife's friend but my wife includes me anyway, often telling me details about their chats. YANBU And I'd be seriously bothered about his gaslighting and secretive behaviour.

some space from him would be good and since the pre-Christmas outburst yes - I’m finding it increasingly unacceptable but I’m not in a position to leave. It’s complicated but my mum lives with us (annex flat) and she relies on us both to be around. She has health problems and he is very good to her and keeps on eye on her when I’m at work.

Well, I guess you have no choice but to just live with his awful behaviour.

Don't agree, you're not stuck where you are.

If he proceeds to an affair and/or leaves, you will need provision for your DM anyway.

Start planning.

Meanwhile, quit any drama as that will likely accelerate things.

You either have to make a decision now that it's unacceptable or wait & see if things move on but use your time wisely.

Sorry you feel stuck. I understand x

I’ve been in a similar position to you op and I know how hurtful is. I am still with my husband, it was 7 years ago.
It started the same, new work colleague who he was mentioning more and more.. Crazy stuff that he would never notice on me like.. Sophie at work had her eyebrows tinted ect. Messaging all the time, he’d never been that way with a work friend before. He then started with the.. Sophie’s husband at work is so controlling, apparently his jealous of me.
This went on for about 6 months, he knew I hated it and he knew he was making me feel like crap but this was obviously more important to him.
It all came to ahead after his office Christmas party. I caught him crying and smoking in his car. He broke down and told me that he was disgusted with himself because she’d made a move, he didn’t go through with it but enjoyed the idea and now felt riddled with guilt. (Boo hoo)
I went apeshit.. I think this surprised him because he then backtracked and acted like he deserved a medal for turning her down on the offer of it becoming physical. (Slow fucking clap, I know)
I told him that it was pathetic that a man in his forties was so insecure that a woman who is obviously also insanely insecure could cause this ridiculous situation. He had lost my respect and I made him move out. He was gone for 6 months, he found a new job in that time, and we had couples therapy along with solo therapy for him.
Things are back to normal now with us and I’m over it but it took a lot of change and grovelling on his part.

This is the way to deal with it. I feel like people who do this to their partners lose respect for them in order to convince themselves they aren’t in the wrong. They are the main character and their poor partner is another side character in the story of their lives. They believe the choices are theirs to make. After all the AP thinks they are wonderful. The narrative is set by them. Only when their partner asserts themselves as their own person with a strength of character they can’t control do they really consider that their hurtful actions can have huge impacts on their partners view of them and therefore their own life trajectory.

Glad it worked out ok in the end @BooksandCats123

If you do talk to her at the event, say you know he has a nice working relationship with her, and intimate she is not the first.

Chat happily about the beautiful gifts your dh gives you, the surprise flowers, and you family plans for the summer. Say he keeps it a secret because he's such an old romantic.
She will check, he will say no, but of course she will begin to doubt.

In the meantime, go through your finances, protect yourself. See a solicitor, change your will. Organise family things, keep him busy. See a counsellor on your own to talk to someone with no bias and therefore no drama.

I was really angry to be honest but this wasn’t a message sent to the colleague, it was to my best friend. I think it hurt that DH had breeched my trust in reading something sent in confidence to a friend. He did then delve further through my emails and found the ones to my colleague, and also he found some lame poetry I’d written months prior which was just my outlet at the time because I daren’t tell anyone. The poetry hurt a lot because that was so personal and I never had any intention of a soul reading it.

It sounds like your DH is in denial. I know it must be difficult to be in your shoes and try to empathise and see things from his side. It’s easier to get angry (which is understandable) and think he’s some sort of nefarious demon. Humans are so very flawed and we can’t always control feelings, sadly.

I think you need to have a gentle conversation with him about it and ask if he’s considered he might have developed feelings for her. I know it sounds crazy but you honestly do repress it and tell yourself it’s fine because you haven’t kissed or whatever.

Don’t do this. It isn’t dignified. Treat her as if she doesn’t exist.

In that case your example is nothing like the one by the OP.

Why on earth should she demean herself like that? I would just freeze her out.

Two things from here - he wants things to be better between you? How is his behaviour actually doing that? Secondly you are risking a happy home. He's quite the cheeky bastard isn't he? He's the one doing wrong and he's pushing it all on to you. I would be asking him how he suggests things are better between you and depending on his answer I would move from there.

Men are not friends with any woman that they secretly don’t want to shag or find attractive in some way. Even if they’re happily married, they get internal validation from spending time with someone that they would shag if they weren’t married.

That’s why they’re only friends with younger or same age attractive women, never Carol from accounts who’s retiring next month.

I’ll no doubt get protests from the attractive women on here who have “loads” of male friends and it’s all perfectly innocent natch. But most men would not piss on an a fat/ugly/old woman if she were on fire.

And what is this woman playing at with her oh you’re my favourite person in the whole wide world shtick <bats fake eyelashes>. She needs to be told to fuck off. Silly cow.

Your mum living with you, albeit in an annex, is quite an important piece of information.

How much do you think this is impacting on your marriage, your lives as a couple, your freetime? How did the arrangement come about? What level of care are you providing to her?

Your husband doesn't sound like much of a communicator, so I wonder if this colleague is a form of escapism from the pressure or boredom or stress or just annoyance of essentially being a carer to his MIL? (I'm not condoning it btw.)

That tired old line gets trotted out on here again and again, and it’s simply not true. One of DH’s closest female friends when he was in his 30s was in her mid50s when they met (she has since died), and I am an extremely plain woman in my early 50s, who has close male friends, single and married, who have never manifested the least desire to shag me, and who certainly aren’t getting any ‘validation’ from being around me. Not everything is about sex.

Yes it’s not always the case I agree . My last relationship broke down due to his overly enmeshed codependent ‘friendship’ with a woman old enough to be his mother. Unfortunately in my case evidence pointed to them being in a dom and sub situation. If he’d had such an overbearing friendship with a man I wouldn’t have been happy either .