Do all men cheat / watch porn?

[pickalillyspooon]

Tale as old as time. I’ve seen this debate played out before.

But I’m in a situation, it’s hard to tell people in real life.

we are early 40s, married 13 years, three primary aged kids. Parenthood hit us like a ton of bricks. Child number 1 didn’t sleep. We were exhausted, I felt resentful about lack of support (in hindsight he did do a lot, there wasn’t really much more he could have done). We just didn’t get on and there was no sex. We had always wanted a sibling for DD
so had sex once and this miraculously resulted in a twin pregnancy.

So, by the time our eldest was 6 and twins were 3 we had had sex once. So once in 6 years. I know now how bad that was.

At the time I was struggling with postnatal depression, 3 non sleeping kids, and working shifts in a demanding job. We barely shared a bed, we just slept wherever. And we had no family to ever babysit.

DH eventually addressed it, asked if we could go to councelling. I shut this down as I felt I just needed more support and maybe then I’d have the energy for that. I felt like he was just one more person making demands on his time.

He then shouted that it was fuckn shit (true) and I kind of realised it couldn’t go on like that.

So we had sex. And it was fine. And it became easy to just continue to have sex. So that’s what we did. All good. We were back in the saddle.

I found out a few months later this the prompting from DH was due to him confiding in an ex girlfriend about our lack of sex life. Not somebody he sees as she lives abroad, but they have kept in very sporadic contact over the years. She told him to speak to me. Also apparently recounted some of their raunchy moments from their past and told him to recreate them.

I found out about this as hears him listening to a voice note from her (didn’t hear the content). He denied denied denied at first, then told me this is what is was. Said it was her that suggested councelling etc.

I was not happy. Asked if they had been sending nudes etc. he swore not.

Life was fine for a couple of years when I snooped and found some messages / photos. They had sent nudes. And worst off all, had planned to meet up for sex. She would catch a flight to our city and book a hotel. I saw the dates she had proposed, and checked back my WhatsApp / photos and he was here. I then found what I think was the final agreed date. I queried why he was doing his hobby on this date when I had an important event the following week, and he said “ok, no bother, I’ll cancel it.”

He was here on that date, so I know it didn’t go ahead.

He says he never had any intention of going through with it. He said when it started it was a bit of excitement and we hadn’t been intimate in so long he just enjoyed the attention. He is quite a shy person and he said that because it was through a phone screen it didn’t seem “real” and he would be too much of a shitebag to go through with anything like that in real life.

Contact between them just dwindled apparently and that does seem to be the case from what I can see from his phone.

She has now been blocked and deleted.

This has all absolutely broken me.

On seeing his phone I can see he looks at some porn as well. Nothing extreme, doesn’t seem excessive use. I don’t particularly like it but I can’t get on my high horse about that. I watch porn myself occasionally and I understand that it’s a real disconnect to real life - some of the stuff I watch I would have absolutely no interest in in real life.

But the ex gf situation.

He swears it was just messages and he never met her and had no intention of doing so. I know how lonely he must have been during that time because I was too. And I enjoyed when men from my past would comment on my fb or whatever, because it was nice to get a little bit of attention. But that’s as far as that went. This girl was obviously a step further than that.

There was never any intention to leave me and be with her. She is married but in an open marriage. And in another country and seemingly very happy. Just enjoys shagging other people’s husbands.

I feel sick at the seediness of it all the complete disrespect that of the 4 people involved, I was the only one with no idea what was going on. Like it just didn’t concern me.

i’m struggling to forgive or forget and not sure how of if I’ll get over it.

But the thought of splitting my family up over messages is hard to take.

He is a good dad, a hard worker, we get on well, and our sex life is back on track and very good.

The thought of being single doesn’t appeal. There’s hardly any decent guys out there and I wouldn’t bring a new man into my kids lives anyway. Financially I would struggle and have to move areas to a flat in a different school catchment.

But the thought of living my life constantly wondering if it’s happening again is not good. And just the images of the photos and texts I’ve seen.

it just seems so, so stupid to have thrown away a life and a family over this.

I'm not trying to not be supportive. I just answered your title question.

I'm, of course, sorry for all you're going through at the minute.

@pickalillyspooon reading through your original posts he had never admitted meeting her. So the kiss at the wedding was another lie that he withheld after promising you knew everything? What makes you think he didn’t sleep with her then? Were you there?

He’s lied at every opportunity so of course you don’t trust him. I think the lies are harder to handle than the betrayal.

I think you need to start thinking about what life could look like without him, factoring in him wanting to still take on some of the responsibilities of dropping off and picking up the kids etc even if you’re not together.

Sounds like you’re done but you’re in the “it’s easier to stay” mindset. Which is totally understandable and probably true logistically but you owe it to yourself to be happy and not to be stuck in a relationship that makes you sad and anxious.

I say make whatever decision you want and then let everything else work itself out. Change is hard and scary but sometimes the best thing you can do for yourself and your children!

@OchreRavenNo, I wasn’t there, and that is my issue. I don’t know for sure that they didn’t have sex then.

He swears that he didn’t. But he swore about a lot of things that turned out to be lies.

And that’s why I’m constantly riddled with anxiety and insecurity.

I do think it is possible that they didn’t have sex. From what I can see the contact between them had kind of fizzled out in the lead up to that wedding and stayed fizzled out. I think if they had had sex the contact would have started up again in earnest.

Unless of course they did have sex, he regretted it and said no more contact.

Or there was more contact after it which I just didn’t find.

The thing that makes this situation slightly different to others is that she is happily married, but in an open marriage. So there was never any intention of him leaving me for her. There was no pressure from her for any sort of commitment or regularity from him, and same from her.

So while it looks to me like contact fizzled out, maybe it didn’t and they kept on exchanging photos etc and I just didn’t see them. It was a low risk situation for him because her husband knew and was fine with it

For some reason this weekend I am
just struggling so much with the lying and the disrespect he has shown me.

I’ve been unable to speak civilly to him, he asked what was wrong a few hours ago. I told him I hate him and resent him and can’t get over this. He said “ok we’ll have to discuss tonight how we move forwards then”

He was on his way out as he said that (coaching kids football team), he has just got back and I’m guessing will have to speak to him once the kids are asleep.

Did you have a conversation? How was it?

@Lmnop22underwhelming, as always.

I asked him what he proposed, going forwards. He said he don’t know and would have a think about it.

I went to bed in the spare room. Could hear him downstairs for hours, finishing off some urgent paperwork for work (it is urgent, but not sure it was quite so urgent as to take priority over this. I suspect just a delaying tactic as he hates confrontation).

I couldn’t sleep as was aware of him up, moving around downstairs until well after midnight so I’m so tired today.

Didn’t hear anything from him until this afternoon when he sent a message saying he doesn’t know what he proposes but he’ll do whatever it takes.

I said I wanted to move out but financially we can’t afford two houses.

He asked if we could try counselling.

i said what’s the point, how does it change what he’s done, and I still don’t believe his version of events.

He promised again that it’s the truth and that they didnt have sex. Says he doesnt know what he was thinking, but he didnt initiate anything, he just got swept along by it.

I asked about constantly looking up attractive girls, plus another one of his ex’s on social media. He didn’t respond to that, but he did delete all social media a while ago when I confronted him about it. Although that’s not really the point, is it, like admitting he can’t be trusted with social media so deletes it.

He said at the time that all men look at attractive women. Probably true. But in the context of all the other stuff it was just too much and really hurt me.

This one ex who he was sexting and planning to meet up with is one issue. But the other ex he was repeatedly looking up just smacks of somebody who’s unhappy with their wife and looking up to see what they could have had instead.

I’m just so incredibly sad.

He is a great dad and we get on so well. My life would undoubtedly be much harder without him.

But I just can’t get those photos and messages out of my head.

If we split, I’ll be on my own. I just will be. I don’t want to bring a man into my kids lives. Also the calibre of men out there is so poor.

He’ll find somebody else no problem. But then that’s a woman in my kids lives who I have no control over.

I’ll have no money. We earn the same, but I work part time shifts, so to run two separate houses I’ll have to go back full time. So I’ll have no money, less time, don’t know where I’ll live, don’t think I could get anything in school catchment and it’s not really an option for me to move my kids schooling.

versus if I stay I can keep my kids in their home
and their school and settled with both parents, continue to work part-time, continue to be able to afford a modest family holiday each year, have somebody to help with the running of the house etc, company, a sex life, companionship.

…but always with the spectre of what he’s done hanging over me and feeling like I’m second best.

so many of our values align. We have the same hobbies, mostly. Same sense of humour. He’s my family. I find him so attractive (he’s no Adonis, he’s probably not everybody’s cup of tea, but to me, he is the most handsome man I know. And he’s obviously fairly objectively handsome since this ex was so desperately keen to have sex with him). But it kills me that he doesn’t feel the same way.

He says he does. He is trying to say all the right things. He desperately wants to keep our family together, he is devoted to the kids. And I do mostly believe that he’s not going to do this again. I know why it started (no sex for 6 years), it’s the fact that it continued that I can’t get over. So now that we have sex again, I l just don’t think he would do it again. However, if I was to insist that we split, I do think he would move on quite quickly. He is attractive and kind and he’s more easy going and more confident than me. Plus there are an awful lot of nice, attractive women aged 20-40 who he could easily get involved with. Whereas I am quieter, not as attractive, not as confident, not as easy going, and will be fishing in a pool of men age 40+, which is not a nice pool.

That’s a long winded way of saying I think splitting with him would be cutting off my nose to spite my face.

I think you need to put this situation on ice and focus on you. It sounds like your self esteem has taken a beating. You think he’s a catch and he couldn’t possibly be telling the truth when he says he finds you attractive. I think this is a reflection of how you feel about yourself not how he feels about you.

Don’t get me wrong, you have every right to be upset at what happened and to question his version of the truth. The photos, the kiss, the messages— it’s cheating. He has cheated on you and his continual lies have taken a sledgehammer to your trust in him. That is not easily rebuilt. But unless you believe you are an attractive person (not just looks but the whole package) you will be making decisions based on insecurity rather than seeing it for what it is. It is his deficiencies (not yours) that allowed him to get ‘carried away’ and looking for an escape rather than being an emotionally mature adult who communicates his needs.

If I were you I would tell him his actions have destroyed your self worth and you need time to rebuild yourself. Get him to look after the kids while you go shopping, get a nice haircut, go out with friends etc. Start rediscovering yourself so that whatever decision you make comes from a calm place of acceptance rather than fear and insecurity.

Thanks @OchreRaven

A lot of what you say it’s true, but it is something I have already kind of sorted.

I put a lot of weight on after having the kids. I went from a size 10 to size 14/16. I don’t carry it well and I didn’t look/feel good at all. I still made an effort with my makeup etc, but I lived in leggings and jumpers.

It was during this time that it all happened.

In the past year I have managed to lose some weight and I’m a comfortable size 12 and look and feel so much better. I’ve bought new clothes etc.

I don’t look amazing, but for a 43 year old mum of 3 I look not bad, I think.

the ex he was cheating with - she’s the same age, also got kids (older than ours), but has a v rich husband so doesn’t work. Spends a lot of time at the gym, getting Botox and expensive hair treatments etc. she actually doesn’t have a very nice face but she definitely makes the most of herself and no denying she has a good body.

the other ex he was looking up, single, no kids, does a sport he is very into. More natural, but also very fit and toned.

The girls in their 20s he has screenshots of - well, they are girls in their 20s. I can’t compete with that and it makes me feel like shit.

I feel quite happy with how I look these days, but I’m very much a mum in a mum bod. The horrible biology of it is that by and large women in their 40s (well, ok, me, I realise I can’t speak for everyone) are attracted to men in their 40s, dad bods and all, whereas men in their 40s and beyond will never stop being attracted to women in their 20s.

I just feel like I’m being forced to compete against everybody, from every angle, in a competition I didn’t even know what happening. In fact, I’m not even a competitor. I was nowhere to be seen in all this. His camera roll was just full of these other women, I was nowhere to be seen.

I do accept that I am a naturally jealous person. But there’s no denying this has made things 100s times worse.

I also feel like there has been a fundamental shift in everything. I’ve always found him very attractive, although he used to be quite chubby and had a niche hairstyle that a lot of people wouldn’t have liked. Boring, sedentary job. But over the past few years he has really grown into himself. Still works in the charity sector but now out in the field, so he’s lost a lot of weight, had a haircut, he looks great and people have a lot of respect for his job. A glow up, I guess you’d say. Whereas I’ve had the opposite, and I had to work a lot of extra hours while he went through training for his new role, which was hard for me.

I think it’s all kind of moot though, he obviously has a wondering eye and I don’t think anything will change that.

I’ve told him that I do understand why he was taken in by the attention she was giving him. Apart from to conceive, whcih was one time, we hadn’t had sex in 6 years, and I wasn’t nice to him. But I had 3 young kids, was working, and also supporting him while he retrained. I was burnt out and resentful. But I can understand why he enjoyed the attention and affection.

I just can’t understand why he kept it going after we were having sex again.

Marriage isn’t always easy. From what you’ve said it sounds like you’ve both emerged from a very rocky period in your lives and you are in a better place. Let bygones be bygones, what matters is solidifying the marriage so it can withstand future challenges, not rehashing your worst moments. People do stupid things when under extreme stress. He’s right you need closure on it, but he also needs to delete everything and not continue those behaviours.

No

Taking this as 2 questions.
Do all men cheat? No.
Do all men watch porn? A large % of men and women watch porn.

Thank you. My rational head says this is the right thing to do. It’s just easier said than done.

We have a lot of friends in common, so it’s hard for me to speak to any of my friends about this. So I am grateful for all the people who have taken the time to reply to me.

Also, I may be late to the party, but I downloaded ChatGPT for the first time last week as I was using it for a help planning a complex menu….i ended up “speaking” to it about this late last night as i desperately needed to talk it through. It actually said some very insightful things (although I do feel quite uncomfortable about the whole AI thing so think I will delete it.)

Anyway, what it managed to get to the crux of is that I don’t WANT to divorce. My life would be worse. But I am struggling with the lack of self-respect and feel like divorce is a way to reclaim that.

But there is no doubt I would be cutting off my nose to spite my face.

I also want to punish him. But divorce would harm the family unit far more than it would punish him personally. I know he would move on fairly quickly and find a partner who is more suited to him and be very happy. And I don’t mean more suited to him in a derogatory way to myself. We have been together since we were very young, have a lot of shared history and we make a good team. But we are very different. We share one hobby together, but that’s my only hobby, whereas his main hobby is an extreme sport that I have never done and will never do. It’s his life and he would be very happy with a woman who did this with him.

I guess I want a way of punishing him and showing him the seriousness of what he’s done.

On the one hand, he knows it was unacceptable. On the other, he has cried and shouted “I haven’t done anything! It was just messages, it wasn’t real!” because while he knows he shouldn’t have done it, he feels losing his marriage over it is disproportionate.

and if it’s true that they didn’t have sex, I guess I agree.

but the issue is, I don’t know. All his lying has meant that I will never know what the full truth is. And that’s what I struggle with.

Careful. I responded this way and got a lecture.

Did you find about the kiss since you last posted, @pickalillyspooon? The worst of it is feeling like you're on shifting sands, so you can never really rebuild. And when the betrayal is not enough in itself to leave an otherwise happy marriage for... but you feel like you might never really know the full extent of it.

No not all men are like this. For example my DP stays inside, plays his games, and doesn’t watch porn. this man is really shit and I’m so sorry he’s like this to you. You deserve better and you need to aim for more. Build a life for yourself and put your ducks in a row x

I suspect most men, especially those under 30 watch porn. I think a lot of men and women cheat on their partners..

In your case, yes I think counselling might be helpful. If only to make you both consider how strongly you still love each other and are willing to work towards mending the relationship. Not everyone believes in second chances but I do..Best wishes 🙂

You've got to put it behind you. I can not tell you how soul destroying it is when your husbabd/wife dies not want to have sex with you ... it's the worst!

Thanks @moderateand @EmailsaysOOO

No, I haven’t found out any more about the kiss.

I didnt go home last night. I told him over text message that I needed some space and would be going to a hotel. He asked if that meant it was definitely over and I said yes. He knew it was coming, it’s not like I “divorced him over text”.

I went to a hotel straight from work. He was phoning a lot, I couldn’t face speaking to him. I spoke to him a couple of times briefly but he could barely get any words out, he was crying a lot. His sister went round and stayed over as he was in a state and I didn’t think was capable of looking after the kids (although they were all in bed by that point).

Met him to talk it over once the kids were dropped off at school.

We spoke a little bit about logistics, and how the house is the main sticking point as neither of us ca afford to live here alone and its in no state to be sold, we would certainly make a loss on it (lots of started but unfinished projects) which we can’t afford to do.

Spoke about how to tell the kids and what the arrangements would be for him seeing the kids at which point he broke down in tears again.

We then spoke again about the issues, mostly the ex he was sexting, and how she was a huge part of the issue, but he compounded it hugely with all the lying.

I feel I need to accept now that I am never going to know anything for sure. Things were at a point last night and this morning where they have never been before. It was, to all intents and purposes over, and he had nothing to lose by telling the truth, if there was more truth to be revealed. But he swore there wasn’t and stuck to the same narrative.

That when she initiated contact, said she still had feelings for him and was in an open marriage and up for meeting him, we hadn’t had sex for 6 years, weren’t nice to each other and just not getting on…it was exciting and he enjoyed the attention of someone being nice to him.

I can understand and accept that.

When I, again, asked why he kept it going once things were back on track with us, he said he didn’t really know. She always initiated it, it was only ever few photos, he liked the attention, he didn’t think it was “real” becuase she didn’t live local
and was just messages on a screen.

he swore that the plan to meet up for sex didn’t happen because he just couldn’t go through with it.

The kiss was only a second and he stopped it and that was the end of it. She would occasionally message him trying to initiate again but he said he didn’t reciprocate.

so it’s the same old stuff over and over again. The story hasn’t changed in a long time. One thing I didnt raise and should have is why, when I partly found out about it in 2022, he then had her saved in his phone under a fake name. I find this level of deceit just horrible. And I guess there isn’t really a good answer to it, we know why. he should have stopped contact at this point, but he didn’t, he just got sneakier.

Anyway, whenever we rehash all this, I tend to feel like I believe him, and things settle down.

the pattern is that after a while the old doubts and niggles come back in….and we end up going over it again.

and I know it needs to stop. one way or the other.

OP if you are going to stay with him, you are going to have to have some kind of counselling to help move forward with the cheating and to work on your self esteem. It isn’t good for you to keep ruminating on it (I would do the same as an anxious person).

@Mumlaplombi know.

I need to either leave, or let it go.

i know I can’t keep ruminating on it.

my self esteem is generally ok. I’m not gorgeous but I’m fine. I don’t have an amazing figure, but for my age and having had 3 kids it’s pretty good. I’m good at my job and I’m kind and I think I’m a good mum.

self esteem is generally ok.

it’s just the jealousy. When it rears its ugly head it just takes over.

I know he likes young, attractive, slim/ fit women. Who doesn’t? And I wouldn’t let the fact that he looks at women like this online bothers me as much if it hadn’t been for the cheating thing. (I know he watches porn but he’s discreet and it’s not excessive. The kindof thing I’m talking about Ritter soil attractive women is fitness pages on Instagram where a girl shows of her gym moves etc. he could easily get the same workout regime from watching a guy….but he doesn’t. That kind of thing).

But ironically, the woman he was sexting, the ex, she’s not young (she’s my age), and she’s also not a looker. Very toned and tanned but bad boob job and her face isn’t nice. Which does make me feel a bit better.

But yes, I know you’re right. I can’t go on like this.

Ok where do i start, the answer is most certainly no, not all men cheat, i've been in a relationship for 17 years and i haven't had sex in 5 years, if you read all the stories on here you'll get mixed advice, you should find someone else to have sex with, you should get a divorce, well i'm not going to say that the latter won't happen when i've finished bringing my kids up, but i certainly haven't cheated on her, i'm not going to lie and say that the thought hasn't crossed my mind whilst i spend countless hours lying awake trying to figure out why my wife is no longer in to me and what i should do about it. I guess morals come into play, i'm not religious in any way but my marriage vows did mean something to me.

I can honestly say that the feeling of being unwanted has broken me in ways i never thought possible, so if ever there was a time when a man might consider cheating it would be now, and i haven't, so don't worry not all men are the same.

thanks @OMGDidYouSayThatits good to have a male perspective.

the situations are very similar then. At the time I didn’t really consider the impact the rejection must have been having on him, but he was obviously feeling the way you do.

He went further than you have, because he did get involved and sext a woman and make plans to meet for sex, but says he couldn’t go through with it.

He generally is someone who has morals and I guess sexual frustration pushed him to the brink of them.

I’ll never know for sure if he’s telling the truth and they didn’t actually have sex, but I’m inclined to think they didn’t.

If they did, they would have kept doing it. And he couldn’t have done that without me noticing. I think he’s telling the truth that it didn’t go further.

Honestly? I think most men do/would if they could get away with it. I know others will swear down their Nigel wouldn’t and nobody in their circle would ever dream of it but in my line of work I see it all trust me. Quiet ones. Devoted ones. Flirty ones. Religious ones. I have zero faith than any man would decline

Maybe it's more lack of opportunity. So, if an enthusiastic third party came on the scene you'd surely be tempted?

Why isn't your wife into you anymore, have you asked?

I haven't read everything but really really counselling would be helpful, firstly individual counselling to work out what you actually want and secondly if you do want to fix the marriage (which I personally think is possible) couples counselling (don't bother with couples counselling unless you actually want to stay married and believe you can get past this stuff if it's resolved properly)