Do all men cheat / watch porn?

[pickalillyspooon]

Tale as old as time. I’ve seen this debate played out before.

But I’m in a situation, it’s hard to tell people in real life.

we are early 40s, married 13 years, three primary aged kids. Parenthood hit us like a ton of bricks. Child number 1 didn’t sleep. We were exhausted, I felt resentful about lack of support (in hindsight he did do a lot, there wasn’t really much more he could have done). We just didn’t get on and there was no sex. We had always wanted a sibling for DD
so had sex once and this miraculously resulted in a twin pregnancy.

So, by the time our eldest was 6 and twins were 3 we had had sex once. So once in 6 years. I know now how bad that was.

At the time I was struggling with postnatal depression, 3 non sleeping kids, and working shifts in a demanding job. We barely shared a bed, we just slept wherever. And we had no family to ever babysit.

DH eventually addressed it, asked if we could go to councelling. I shut this down as I felt I just needed more support and maybe then I’d have the energy for that. I felt like he was just one more person making demands on his time.

He then shouted that it was fuckn shit (true) and I kind of realised it couldn’t go on like that.

So we had sex. And it was fine. And it became easy to just continue to have sex. So that’s what we did. All good. We were back in the saddle.

I found out a few months later this the prompting from DH was due to him confiding in an ex girlfriend about our lack of sex life. Not somebody he sees as she lives abroad, but they have kept in very sporadic contact over the years. She told him to speak to me. Also apparently recounted some of their raunchy moments from their past and told him to recreate them.

I found out about this as hears him listening to a voice note from her (didn’t hear the content). He denied denied denied at first, then told me this is what is was. Said it was her that suggested councelling etc.

I was not happy. Asked if they had been sending nudes etc. he swore not.

Life was fine for a couple of years when I snooped and found some messages / photos. They had sent nudes. And worst off all, had planned to meet up for sex. She would catch a flight to our city and book a hotel. I saw the dates she had proposed, and checked back my WhatsApp / photos and he was here. I then found what I think was the final agreed date. I queried why he was doing his hobby on this date when I had an important event the following week, and he said “ok, no bother, I’ll cancel it.”

He was here on that date, so I know it didn’t go ahead.

He says he never had any intention of going through with it. He said when it started it was a bit of excitement and we hadn’t been intimate in so long he just enjoyed the attention. He is quite a shy person and he said that because it was through a phone screen it didn’t seem “real” and he would be too much of a shitebag to go through with anything like that in real life.

Contact between them just dwindled apparently and that does seem to be the case from what I can see from his phone.

She has now been blocked and deleted.

This has all absolutely broken me.

On seeing his phone I can see he looks at some porn as well. Nothing extreme, doesn’t seem excessive use. I don’t particularly like it but I can’t get on my high horse about that. I watch porn myself occasionally and I understand that it’s a real disconnect to real life - some of the stuff I watch I would have absolutely no interest in in real life.

But the ex gf situation.

He swears it was just messages and he never met her and had no intention of doing so. I know how lonely he must have been during that time because I was too. And I enjoyed when men from my past would comment on my fb or whatever, because it was nice to get a little bit of attention. But that’s as far as that went. This girl was obviously a step further than that.

There was never any intention to leave me and be with her. She is married but in an open marriage. And in another country and seemingly very happy. Just enjoys shagging other people’s husbands.

I feel sick at the seediness of it all the complete disrespect that of the 4 people involved, I was the only one with no idea what was going on. Like it just didn’t concern me.

i’m struggling to forgive or forget and not sure how of if I’ll get over it.

But the thought of splitting my family up over messages is hard to take.

He is a good dad, a hard worker, we get on well, and our sex life is back on track and very good.

The thought of being single doesn’t appeal. There’s hardly any decent guys out there and I wouldn’t bring a new man into my kids lives anyway. Financially I would struggle and have to move areas to a flat in a different school catchment.

But the thought of living my life constantly wondering if it’s happening again is not good. And just the images of the photos and texts I’ve seen.

it just seems so, so stupid to have thrown away a life and a family over this.

No, obviously not all men are like that.

It's impossible to tell when you first meet someone so the best thing to do is live your life for yourself. Work on your own self esteem and set your standards high. It's true that if you value yourself others will too.

Don't accept disrespectful behaviour. Aim higher, expect more.

Thanks @WallaceinAnderland

All good advice.

I had a very tough few years when the kids were young, but I’m doing well now. I’ve got a good job, I’ve finally lost the “baby” weight. I value myself and I don’t “let” myself be treated badly.

When I found out about the nude photos I was furious. I asked him to leave and he left for a week but had to come back due to his job. We have been in discussions etc since.

He is apologetic, embarrassed, he has cried. But we are a few months down the line now and I can see he’s getting annoyed when I bring it up. Says he can’t keep going over and over the same things. Which I disagree. I don’t really know why I keep asking about it.

I know if I can’t get over it we need to split up.

And you didn’t explicitly say it but I think the overarching tone of your message was to move on and find someone better?

I'm probably not helpful to you, cos I'm poly and I don't have the sexual jealousy/betrayal feelings. I would feel emotionally betrayed by these actions though.

Yes, it's shit, he betrayed your trust and hurt you.
And also, people take these things very personally, but the truth is he wasn't doing it to hurt you. He wasn't really thinking about you, he was just thinking about his unmet needs, at a period of time which was pretty difficult for you both. And he made a bad decision to get the ego boost and validation from his ex. It's selfish and unkind, but also very common in humans. You yourself admit you've had that urge and understand it, just that you draw your own line at a lower level of interaction. And you've also shown that you understand your part in the relationship becoming more distant in those years, however justified that may have been at the time.

When it came down to it, he chose you with no issues. And mostly it sounds like he's good. But he did do actions which are a huge betrayal for you.
Some people can compartmentalise much more than others, so getting some ego needs meet elsewhere doesn't at all affect the love, affection and commitment they feel for their primary partner, even though if they thought about it they'd know those actions will hurt them. Yes, I know that sounds inconsistent. Humans are.

If you can't get over it, then yes, you'll need to break up. It's not fair to either of you to continue.
But from what you've said, it sounds like you recognise lots of positives in the relationship, but also are not sure if psychologically you can cope with having that in your past. So maybe go to therapy, individually first and maybe couples later, to talk it through and consider how it plays out in future, and what you want to do. You have got agency and control in this. You can choose your husband, or you can choose a new life separately.

But if you want to continue, then you have to find a way to let it go and learn to feel secure with him again, otherwise it'll eat away and destroy the relationship anyway. If that's what you want, what do you need from him and from yourself to feel secure again?

No, not all men are like this.

The baby/toddlers years are HARD, no doubt about it, but they aren’t an excuse for cheating or looking for an escape outside of your marriage. We’re in the thick of it right now, 2 under 2, it’s a lot but my husband and I are in it together, these are our babies, our family, nobody is sleeping very well, nobody has much “me” time, but the little time we do have we choose to spend on each other, our marriage, because when these kids are grown up and long gone there will just be me and him again and we both want to make sure that time comes we are still happy with that.

I’m not saying my marriage, me or my husband are perfect but we choose each other, every day. On the hard days, after the sleepless nights, on the days where we are running on empty or are just point blank struggling, we choose each other, we love each other and we want each other.

That’s what should happen OP. When times get tough, if you love your partner then you choose them, you don’t go seeking validation/attention from other people the way he has.

Personally this would be a deal breaker for me and my husband knows that. I wouldn’t be able to forget it and it wouldn’t be fair on either of us to stay in a marriage where this would be continuously brought up by me because I know it would never leave my mind. I don’t want to live worrying every time the phone beeps with a text, everytime he’s late home from work, everytime he leaves for a “hobby”- life is too short. I have a daughter and a son, I wouldn’t want either of them to be treated like that by a future partner of theirs so I won’t accept it for myself either.

Many will disagree with me, but for me, if this is his only one mistake and everything else is otherwise good I would be tempted to give it some time and see if you can work it out. Good luck whatever you decide!

Thank you @WrylyAmusedi really appreciate you taking the time type that response. You seem to have understood the question well, which I realise can be very difficult on here. It’s hard to condense huge issues into a few paragraphs and expect people to see and understand the whole picture.

As to your question at the end, what do I need from him.

Well, firstly, he lied at every turn. He only admitted something once he had been found out. He drip fed the smallest amount of truth he felt he could get away with.

ny issues with this: 1) how do I know when we are finally at the whole truth? (Which he swears we are).

2. he says he lied and didn’t want to tell me because he didn’t want to hurt me. But the way it feels to me that he betrayed me by telling her intimate things about our marriage. But the details of their “realationship” are secret just between them.

I feel like so many of our conversations have been me doing most of the talking. He has cried a lot (not crocodile tears, he even had a panic attack and it was terrifying). He says he will do anything etc. But i don’t know what he can do.

The other thing I find it hard to stomach is that yes, I understood why he responded to her advances. I understand how hard and lonely that time was for us. What I don’t understand is why he continued, when things were better with us. Somehow, it went from “ok, I’ll help you get your marriage back on track, speak to her, see if she’ll try councelling”…..to ….”just grab her and do that move you used to do on me”……to……”oh you’re havingsex and happy again. Well done, im
happy for you. Here’s nude pics of me, send me one of you, let’s meet up in a hotel and have sex.”

And he doesn’t really seem to have an answer to that.

If you separate you would have to look at it that the default position would be that you would be single. It's a huge assumption to make that you can leave him and immediately find an upgrade.

There are plenty of decent guys out there, but how many of them would be sympathetic to your situation is another question.

So the question you should be asking is would you be better off without him, rather than is there someone out there who could be an upgrade?

I agree

Don't get me wrong I'd be really upset but I think I'd try and work through it

Six years with no sex is just awful. Sex is the glue that keeps everything else together.

I agree with you @Jellybunny56 that’s how I thought our marriage was.

our marriage was shit but I thought we were just struggling though the baby years.

the difference though, is that you say what little time you did have you prioritised each other.

we didn’t. And I’m partly to blame for that. Maybe mostly.

I think it comes down to the whole men need sex to feel loved, women need to feel loved to have sex?

I was horrible to him. I resented him for how much my life had changed whereas his hadn’t changed that much (although it was still hard, he worked hard and is a very hands on dad.)

He would try and instigate sex and I would say no. I felt like it was just one more person for me to please.

if he had approached it differently, met my needs first, made me feel seen as a person, I think sex would have followed.

so while yes I agree your marriage was how I viewed mine, I have to take responsibility for us being driven further apart than they should have been.

I’ve just replied to another poster basically saying I can see why he was responsive when she messaged him basically laying it on a plate.

what I am struggling is the fact that he kept it going, when things were better with us.

Thank you @zerored
i desperately don’t want to break up my family so it’s nice to know not everyone thinks I’d be mad to stay.

Only you know if you can forgive him and I do think that, in your circumstances, this is potentially forgivable.

But if you do forgive him, you have to let it go. It cannot be something that you hang over him or comes up in every fight or that you constantly want to talk about. Forgive and forget.

If you can’t do that, then your trust has been too badly broken and you need to walk away.

The middle ground of staying together but arguing over the same texts and issue over and over again and never letting it go will just hurt everyone and end the relationship further down the line anyway.

There’s nobody who would be an upgrade.

Men this age are either taken, or have a huge amount of baggage, or are just not suitable at all.

He is a very good dad, he has a good job (long hours but a bit of flexibility for school pick up), he’s handsome and nice natured and we get along well.

if we split, I will almost certainly be single for the rest of my life, whereas he will find a nice girl quite easily. Who would then be in my kids lives.

which is not a nice thought

Yes, I know you are right.

Thank you

He hasn't even begun to understand what he's done because fundamentally he doesn't care. He's not going to put the work in. He doesn't even think he needs to do anything except cry a little.

He wants you to accept being lied to by the one person who you are supposed to be able to trust. He wants you to get over it. Because to him, it doesn't matter if he hurt you. It only matters that he has to feel bad for hurting you. You are making him feel bad and he wants you to stop it!

Yes, I would separate over this. It's not about the specifics of what he did, it's about how he sees you. Lesser than him. Unimportant.

Don't leave him to find someone else, leave him to find yourself and be happy with yourself. Create a life that doesn't need a partner and if someone does come along make sure you still carve out space for yourself and that your partner shows their love by being respectful and treating you as an equal.

your posts are very long and I haven’t read everything

I would just say that, ultimately you didn’t want to have sex initially and you felt unsupported and said so to him when he raised lack of sex. He took that as cue to go his ex or whatever happened. Not every man is going to act like a total gentleman when his wife doesn’t want to have sex, it’s a tale as old as time, and this is how your husband reacted. (Side note - I swear every middle aged couple has sex issues)

It’s up to you whether this is a dealbreaker or not, it’s really down to your own boundaries and limitations no one can make that decision for you?

i also just think that, you gave him an ultimatum basically saying no sex unless you support me more. And he didn’t accept the options of no sex or more support - he went elsewhere. So that should tell you that ultimatums don’t work for him, and that his view will always trump your own. So again up to you what you do with this information. It basically comes down to, is the facade of a happy life externally enough for you? Enough for you to stay in a relationship where your view basically doesn’t matter? Cause for some women, having the house and outward stability is enough.

Yes. Seeing it in black and white like that is very hard.

6 years.

He really is quite a shy man who finds it hard to initiate. Add to th fact we were never in the same bed, and were not getting on….it his didn’t happen.

Pretty sure if he was more forthright about it it wouldn’t have gone on for 6 years.

He did try a couple of times, but they were bad attempts, at bad times, and they just annoyed me. I was quite shouty and volatile, completely overwhelmed, stressed and sleep deprived and he was probably scared to approach me.

What a mess.

I honestly don’t think you can take anywhere near “most” of the blame here.

I agree at a baseline men & women do see sex differently, but relationships are more than that.

Effort does not always look equal at every time, I don’t have 50% to give my husband every day, he doesn’t expect that from me, we can’t be 50/50 all of the time. Sometimes I just don’t have that to give and he understands that, so on the days I can only give him 10% he gives me 90%, on the days we both only have 10% to give we just sit in that together. Yes it’s hard, yes we can’t give as much to our relationship as we would like to, but we’re still sat there together.

If my husband just came to me for sex, we’d be having issues too. He knows me better than that, he probably knows the effort in our relationship to give me that half an hour to have a bath to just rewind of an evening, the effort to ask me how I am not just how the kids are and truly want to hear the response, the filling up my water and putting snacks on the table beside the sofa before he leaves for work so that when I’m trapped feeding I can still eat, the asking if I need anything before he leaves etc- that effort is what makes me feel loved, not crawling into bed and asking for sex. None of those things are big grand gestures, not dramatic, but they make the biggest difference to me, us, how I feel. And it’s sort of then a circle that comes back round, I feel loved and safe, I’m then in the right mindset to give back, I give back and then he gives back… your partner broke that circle when he looked elsewhere to fill those needs.

Yes in a dream world relationships are 50/50 but in reality with young children they aren’t, they can’t be, but he could have chosen to speak to you about how he was feeling. That’s starting that circle of “how can we fix this”, not seeking out someone else to fill that gap.

Exactly, I know some people and met others who have been led up the garden path somewhat, thought it would be easy to find someone else after separation and have then discovered that it isn't!

You have a lot to give up. Easier said than done leaving a family and upsetting the kids. Can you try counselling and talk through all the issues together to see if they can be resolved?

I think some couple counselling might help.
Talk it all through to see if you can reach a place where you can move on.

It’s not true there are no nice men out there! Lots of men end up single in their 40s, in the same way women do. I wouldn’t stay with someone who betrayed me like this personally, it wasn’t a one off event, it was sustained contact. In fact there are plenty of men out there who would be faithful, which would certainly be an upgrade from your DH.

Only you can decide, but I couldn’t trust him again.

"You have a lot to give up. Easier said than done leaving a family and upsetting the kids. Can you try counselling and talk through all the issues together to see if they can be resolved?"

What @HollyIvie said. And have you anyone who could look after your children for a couple of days so you and DH could get away alone? (I'm a grandma, and if you were my DD or DDiL, I'd do it for you. My sister and I used to do it for each other.) Very best wishes.

I find the suggestions of counselling disingenuous because it basically comes down to:

are you prepared to shut up and let this go, for the sake of the lifestyle?

its the exact same dilemma you face without counselling. so you can save yourself the cost and time of undertaking counselling! You already know what he’s prepared to compromise on and what he’s not - he isn’t going to offer you more support and he is going to have an expectation when it comes to sex and porn etc. counselling isn’t going to change his mind or trigger a lightbulb moment. It’s more about are you prepared to accept that this is not going to be a situation in your favour?

I think you have 2 choices:

• drop the subject and enjoy the fact that your relationship is back on track.
• Leave

If you cannot let it go, then that would be understandable but necessarily means that you will have to end your marriage, because it won't be much of a marriage where he has to go over it all again and again.

You know why it happened, but it does look as if it was all pie in the sky and no actual action between them.

I send you lots of good wishes in making this decision - not easy I know.

Thanks @Gagagardener

This issue has already kind of resolved. Things have been much better for a couple of years now. The kids are primary aged now so things are easier. We do have the occasional night of babysitting (it’s just hard because the 3 of them together is a lot for most people).
The kids sleep now so we have our evenings back to have a glass of wine, watch tv together, and we have been having regular sex for the past few years as well.

So we were really happy. Then I found these photos and realised the extent of what was happening a few years ago.