Do all men cheat / watch porn?

[pickalillyspooon]

Tale as old as time. I’ve seen this debate played out before.

But I’m in a situation, it’s hard to tell people in real life.

we are early 40s, married 13 years, three primary aged kids. Parenthood hit us like a ton of bricks. Child number 1 didn’t sleep. We were exhausted, I felt resentful about lack of support (in hindsight he did do a lot, there wasn’t really much more he could have done). We just didn’t get on and there was no sex. We had always wanted a sibling for DD
so had sex once and this miraculously resulted in a twin pregnancy.

So, by the time our eldest was 6 and twins were 3 we had had sex once. So once in 6 years. I know now how bad that was.

At the time I was struggling with postnatal depression, 3 non sleeping kids, and working shifts in a demanding job. We barely shared a bed, we just slept wherever. And we had no family to ever babysit.

DH eventually addressed it, asked if we could go to councelling. I shut this down as I felt I just needed more support and maybe then I’d have the energy for that. I felt like he was just one more person making demands on his time.

He then shouted that it was fuckn shit (true) and I kind of realised it couldn’t go on like that.

So we had sex. And it was fine. And it became easy to just continue to have sex. So that’s what we did. All good. We were back in the saddle.

I found out a few months later this the prompting from DH was due to him confiding in an ex girlfriend about our lack of sex life. Not somebody he sees as she lives abroad, but they have kept in very sporadic contact over the years. She told him to speak to me. Also apparently recounted some of their raunchy moments from their past and told him to recreate them.

I found out about this as hears him listening to a voice note from her (didn’t hear the content). He denied denied denied at first, then told me this is what is was. Said it was her that suggested councelling etc.

I was not happy. Asked if they had been sending nudes etc. he swore not.

Life was fine for a couple of years when I snooped and found some messages / photos. They had sent nudes. And worst off all, had planned to meet up for sex. She would catch a flight to our city and book a hotel. I saw the dates she had proposed, and checked back my WhatsApp / photos and he was here. I then found what I think was the final agreed date. I queried why he was doing his hobby on this date when I had an important event the following week, and he said “ok, no bother, I’ll cancel it.”

He was here on that date, so I know it didn’t go ahead.

He says he never had any intention of going through with it. He said when it started it was a bit of excitement and we hadn’t been intimate in so long he just enjoyed the attention. He is quite a shy person and he said that because it was through a phone screen it didn’t seem “real” and he would be too much of a shitebag to go through with anything like that in real life.

Contact between them just dwindled apparently and that does seem to be the case from what I can see from his phone.

She has now been blocked and deleted.

This has all absolutely broken me.

On seeing his phone I can see he looks at some porn as well. Nothing extreme, doesn’t seem excessive use. I don’t particularly like it but I can’t get on my high horse about that. I watch porn myself occasionally and I understand that it’s a real disconnect to real life - some of the stuff I watch I would have absolutely no interest in in real life.

But the ex gf situation.

He swears it was just messages and he never met her and had no intention of doing so. I know how lonely he must have been during that time because I was too. And I enjoyed when men from my past would comment on my fb or whatever, because it was nice to get a little bit of attention. But that’s as far as that went. This girl was obviously a step further than that.

There was never any intention to leave me and be with her. She is married but in an open marriage. And in another country and seemingly very happy. Just enjoys shagging other people’s husbands.

I feel sick at the seediness of it all the complete disrespect that of the 4 people involved, I was the only one with no idea what was going on. Like it just didn’t concern me.

i’m struggling to forgive or forget and not sure how of if I’ll get over it.

But the thought of splitting my family up over messages is hard to take.

He is a good dad, a hard worker, we get on well, and our sex life is back on track and very good.

The thought of being single doesn’t appeal. There’s hardly any decent guys out there and I wouldn’t bring a new man into my kids lives anyway. Financially I would struggle and have to move areas to a flat in a different school catchment.

But the thought of living my life constantly wondering if it’s happening again is not good. And just the images of the photos and texts I’ve seen.

it just seems so, so stupid to have thrown away a life and a family over this.

I'd reccomend looking into betrayal trauma op. This is isn't something you just need to get over.
I'd reccomend a podcast called helping couples heal. I'd also reccomend looking at the secret sexual basement omar minwhalla.
If he is willing to do anything then he would happily and understand the need for doing some individual therapy. I'd reccomend Chris jones therapy.
He could of at any time left the relationship but he chose to lie, hide and betray you. He will need to do work on himself to really understand why he chose that instead of honesty.

It would also be beneficial to do some healing of you own op. There are betrayal trauma therapists I wouldn't suggest a run of the mill therapist.

It sounds like you both want it to work. I'd take this as an opportunity to re build a bullet proof amazing relationship. Based on integrity and transparency. Then you stand a much better chance weathering any storm life throws at you.

Im pretty sure he does care. He’s not a “bad” person. He’s just done a really stupid, hurtful thing.

Oh come on, you are fooling yourself. If he cared, he wouldn't have done it in the first place.

I care about people. Hurting them is the last thing I would ever do.

I’m so sorry @LochSunart, it’s just awful, isn’t it?

is therapy helping? Did you stay with your wife?

Thank you @Marble10, a lot of that sounds like what he has said. He has said “it wasn’t real” and I very much think it was escapism and ego boost.

He does keep reiterating that he hasn’t “cheated”. I disagree with him on that, I think he has, even though he didn’t go through with physically meeting up with her.

to try and get him to understand it, I reversed the situation and asked how he’d feel if I was sending sex message and nudes to another man. He went very quiet and said obviously he’d hate it. I said “well, it’s not cheating, so it’s ok if I do it then?” He said “obviously I’d rather you didn’t but I can’t stop you”.

So it’s interesting you say that it would be a dealbreaker for your husband if he found out. I’ll never know for sure, but I don’t think it would be for my husband. He has told me, very rarely, of occasions where he felt a little bit jealous or threatened (many years ago) but he never showed it at the time. If I started messsing around with a man the way he was messing around with that woman I think he’d shout a bit, probably want to confront the guy, maybe cry a bit…..then bury it and never ever mention it again.

I don’t really know what that says about him.

Thank you@MightyGoldBeari will look up the podcast.

as regards therapy, he has been seeing a therapist since this all erupted a few months ago. It’s not just about that though, he has had a lot of family bereavements in the past two years, one of which has brought some childhood trauma to the surface. So the therapy isn’t about that in particular, there is a lot going on.

We weren’t sleeping, having sex, or even being pleasant to each other. He told me recently that at one point he did consider leaving and was looking at flats. But he couldn’t do it. Partly he couldn’t leave the kids. Partly he couldn’t leave me struggling alone with 3 young kids. Because I was struggling.

so he didn’t want to leave. He wanted his family, he wanted to stay, but he needed a sex life. So I get it. I can understand how it happened.

it was still wrong though and it’s hurt me hugely. And what really hurts is that it didn’t immediately stop once our sex life was back on track.

I went through something similar with my DH a number of years ago now. We had couples counselling which to be honest didn't really help. Then we both had individual therapy which helped us both to understand why it had happened, to learn from it and from my point of view if I wanted to continue in the relationship after the betrayal. Every week after both our sessions we'd also do a 'couples' one at home with just us to help bring our thoughts together. As hard as it was at the time I genuinely believe it made our relationship stronger as prior to it we didn't really communicate on a deeper level. The catalyst for us like you was having young children, birth trauma and our lives changing beyond all recognition.

I think it's unfair of your husband to say it's in the past as whilst it is for him, you've not long found out and it is something new for you.

Thanks @Blueberrymuffinsforthewin

I don’t think he means it in a dismissive way when he says it’s in the past for him. I think he just means that he finds it so frustrating because it all stopped years ago and now that we are in a good place it’s frustrating that something from years ago, when things were very different, has come back to ruin it.

Of course he does admit that it is his own fault.

"And what really hurts is that it didn’t immediately stop once our sex life was back on track."

The thing is, how did he know it was back on track?

You'd just gone 6 years as a couple with pretty much no sex. Even when you'd started having sex again, he must have thought it was going to be a blip for those first few months. Your default state as a couple at that point was sexless, you knew you wanted to fix things, but he didn't, not really. So I can see why he was reluctant to immediately let go of what had kept him going for the last 6 years.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say what he did was right, he never should have cheated on you. But I can see why, if he was using this other woman as a crutch to get through the mess your relationship was in, why he was reluctant to let go of that crutch too quickly.

I don’t think all men are like this, some are , as are some women. Lack of sex in a relationship though can and does cause problems, it’s hard to know if he would have contacted her if you were both in a healthy sexual/ emotional relationship, that’s often the issue, not automatically sex related, people drift apart, often not through any specific cause, they stop discussing issues that bother them/ are causing them stress, then one turns to an old friend/colleague and before you know it, you have a situation like this. Only you can decide if you fully believe him that he never intended to meet her and if their contact has genuinely stopped, but it’s incredibly hard moving on and trusting again, good luck with it all

Thank you @VimesandhisCardboardBootsYes, I see what you are saying.

FYI though, he hadn’t been involved with her for the whole 6 years.

It was only for a month or two, and then he had the confidence to really tell me things had to change…and they did. Sex life began again, things in general were much better. But he continued the messages with her for another 4 or 5 months.

He is quite a shy man (hence not pushing me over those years) and I don’t think he would have the confidence to approach anybody else….which is why I think he jumped at it when she approached him.

We have been together since we were very young, he was 22 when we met (now 46) he had a handful of girlfriends prior to me but I’m realising now probably wasn’t that experienced. So I think that the fact that she was a) somebody he knew (even from years ago) and b) through a computer screen and not physically nearby, made it seem both safe and exciting at the same time. I think he possibly felt a bit less inhibited with her than he did with me. (This has changed now, he has been a lot less inhibited for a while now and sex life is good).

The part I really struggle with is the planning to meet up. She booked a flight and a hotel, he made up a work conference and put it on our shared iPhone calendar. I questioned whether it was really necessary as I was working a lot that week (I work shifts) and would struggle with the kids and he said “ok, I won’t go”, and apparently that was that.

Obviously my worry is that he went another time. But I’ve looked through the calendar from that time and can’t see when he would have had the opportunity.

He says he never intended to go through with it, but I find that hard to believe.

However, there was a time, before I met him, I got chatting to a guy online (other end of the country) and was making plans to visit him for sex on New Year’s Eve Genuinely don’t know what I was thinking, I would never in a million years have done it and don’t really know why I was saying I would. Living out a fantasy, I suppose. So maybe I get it.

Well I think he was thinking about it , but when it came to the crunch he couldn’t go through with it , that’s what really counts .
He couldn’t do it .
You said yourself she booked flights & a hotel so she was 💯 game .
I just think in order for you to be able to get past this .
You have to remind yourself he never did meet her & it was him who chose that .

@Missj25I know. It just hurts.

I could understand it more if he had booked it / considered it when we weren’t having sex.

But we were having loads of sex at the point they agreed on it, because I can see when it appeared in my calendar. So what was the need? Was he going to leave me at home with the kids, meet her in a hotel, have sex all night, home the next day….and have sex with me? 🤢

Thats the bit I really struggle with.

Not really the issue but I was also having some medical tests at that time (all fine) but I wasn’t allowed to drive for around 3 weeks, which just so happened to be at that time. So he was going to be away on a day that was logistically quite difficult for me getting to/from work, school pick up, and kids extracurriculars all on public transport. But as I say, that’s really secondary to the actual issue.

Obviously I’d be very hurt too OP , I’m not trying to say it’s not a big deal, but it kinda looks to me he led her on with no intention of meeting her , but played the game until the end .
I thought he arranged to meet her when things were rubbish between you guys , now it appears to me , he led her on ..

Having read through your posts, OP, it seems you've been getting a lot of good advice on the thread. From what you've said, it doesn't seem like a deal breaker as long as your husband can accept that it'll take time for you to trust him again, and he needs to prove his dedication to your relationship by meeting whatever reasonable demands you make.

I think given the extent of it is quite a recent discovery for you (a few months ago, you say?) you're both at very different points. He's probably ashamed and disgusted in himself, but has processed his behaviour and put it to bed - he just wants to bury it and move on. Thinking about it reminds him of a time he regrets and a part of himself he's not proud of, and so he's minimising and dismissing.

You, however, are feeling a fresh, raw wound, and you want to probe at it. As the one who broke trust, he needs to understand that he has to move at your pace, answer your questions, and be considerate of your needs. But I think you also need to be magnanimous, to a certain extent, and willing to let things go once you've worked through them in your mind.

Going over and over what happened and getting every detail won't help, in the end - at a certain point you need to choose to turn the page, and start fresh without holding a grudge (although obvious, it does take time for wounds to heal fully).

If he would do anything book a lie detector test and ask him to take it (regardless of how you feel about them working). Often leads to a last minute car park confession.

Say yes to counselling - Gottman based counselling preferably with someone who doesn’t believe in Unmet Needs theory. Tell him to organise it asap. Any sniff of unmet needs theory sack the counsellor on the spot and leave the room. Cheating is a choice.

How to help my spouse heal from my affair - by Glass - it’s a quick read/ and yes he’s a cheat.

Seven principles of making marriage work by John Gottman is a good book.

Thanks @Missj25

I don’t think he led her on. Not consciously anyway.

I think that either a) he desperately wanted to do it and intended to go though with it until he realised he couldn’t.

or b) He is a people pleaser and didn’t know how to get out of it. I suspect it may be this, as I think when I sent him a screenshot of the event on iPhone calendar saying “what’s this? This is really inconvenient” I think he screenshotted my message and sent it to her, saying that he couldn’t go because I’d said no.

He did say when I asked him about it “did I put up a fight? No, that shows that I didn’t want to go”.

Of course the third possibility is that we did go but just on a different date. I do think an overnight was possible, I think I knew (for definite) where he was every night, so the only possibility would have been a daytime meet and he took a days annual leave to meet her in a hotel room. Which is horribly seedy and I very much hope he didn’t

Drip feeding is the worse thing he could do btw - it’s the lying that eventually can change your opinion of people. It’s not an attractive trait tbh. And it smacks of his need to retain control to protect himself - not you. He thinks knowledge is what hurts you but really it’s his actions.

If you got burgled tonight but were on holiday and found out you had been robbed when you return next Saturday. It’s not the finding out that is the crime. It’s the action. You had still been robbed , you just weren’t aware.

Why does he think it was okay to have more knowledge about your relationship than you? Why was it okay for you not to have informed consent? Why couldn’t he be open and you could find a man to blow smoke up your arse too?

@OtterlyAstounding yes, I have been getting a lot of good advice and very grateful for it.

And yes, you’re right, we are at very different places with it. He does view it as all being in the past whereas finding those photos and messages was traumatic to me and I am really struggling with it.

I go quiet and moody sometimes when something reminds me of it. Mostly holiday photos we have on the wall at home. The dates of their messages are etched in my mind and some of them marry up to dates we were on holiday with the kids, happy and having a great time. Now seem so tainted because of what he was secretly doing.

When I go quiet and moody, he senses it and goes quiet (hates confrontation). He is already a very quiet man, so this results in him saying barely anything. When I eventually erupt and start crying about it he says he knew it was coming and when I say I can’t stop thinking about it he says it’s always in his head just now as well. But he would never ever bring it up.

His quietness is an issue. If it had been me that had done this, I’d be explaining everytbing - full honesty and explanations, anything I could to make him feel better.

He is very tight lipped about it. He isn’t a good communicator anyway, keeps things to himself a lot. And also obviously he doesn’t want to tell me things because he “doesn’t want to hurt me”, but keeping it secret just makes me wonder and also keeps it something private between them.

its just hard. He has always been very quiet and shy and while sex has always been good (apart from
those 6 years), he does struggle with initiating. Which is why the 6 year drought happened. I do see why she was a bit of a release for him.

Yes, all true, and I have told him all this.

The lying makes me so sad and angry.

I told him to stop th drip feeding, have a think and tell me EVERYTHING. Otherwise I’d never be able to trust him again.

He didn’t. He stuck to his guns. I confronted him with the proof and he started crying and shaking like a leaf.

He swore on the kids lives.

im so sad and embarrassed to admit that. And so is he. But he did it.

Yeah but OP you would have seen that in their messages, organising a day date .
Plus I think she wasn’t going to book a flight for a day date .
Your husband goes home , & she’s left alone for the evening til she goes home the next day .
If I was organising a date , I wouldn’t be getting a flight to see him where it’s not an overnight stay ..

I haven’t seen all their messages though. I have mainly just seen the photos they sent each other and some screenshots of their chats.

they also communicated across various different platforms - WhatsApp, fb messenger etc.

I wouldn’t put a day date past her. They would spend all day in hotel having sex then hewpild
go home and she would either head to airport or go out with friends which she has in our city. She really is disgusting. And I’m very much hoping that didnt happen.