How do you grieve a marriage to someone with Autism and ADHD after divorce?

[Bramble234]

I was married 20 years. In the early days there were a few odd things he said but i was totally in love. After 10 years we had a lot of issues with needing IVF, my health issues, issues with family pets etc etc. I noticed as soon as the hit the fan he ran a mile. When we disagreed we couldn't talk about it. He just didnt seem able to chat. We saw a counsellor and it didnt help. Eventually we got divorced, We coparent our 2 kids. He has severe depression although its somewhat controlled now. I have severe physical health issues, work full time and do 95% of the parenting. He's had a girlfriend for a year or so. I'm single after a 3 year relationship post divorce.

Recently our son was assessed and has ADHD. This has bought things to a head with my exh and he finally got assessed. He has always known he has dyslexia but has now been diagnosed with ADHD and Autism.

We tried to have a conversation yesterday about our daughter and his autism is so so so obvious now. His response to some of the chat was just cruel and heartless. I think back to the last 25 years and he has never said thanks to me, never told me im good at anything, never given me a hug and comforted me through all the trauma we have had. He's had so much therapy that if i tell him now that im struggling with something he says that he 'hears what im saying'. He sounds like a robot. He doesn't feel anything, He's just trying to express the emotions he has been told he should have. I've recently learned i need another surgery and his response was what if it goes wrong and your disabled, meaning he would have to have the kids more.

We divorced 5 years ago but he has lived with me and the kids for the last 6 months because he lost his job and house. He is moving out in March to his own place as he has a job now. I didn't want to let him move back in but he had no where else to go and the kids want to see him.

I just cant get passed the anger at him for being so uncaring, at myself for not knowing something was different all along, for always thinking at some point he would give me a hug and comfort me even after 20 years of him never doing that.

My kids have ADHD and one has dyslexia. I fear so much for them if they grow up like their dad. He is so selfish, self obsessed and cold. He cant help it, i know that now. Its how his brain work. As he has a girlfriend i assume he doesn't come across this way to her.

I just feel so sad. I just don't know how to move on. Its been nearly 5 years and i still struggle to accept that he just isn't the man i thought i married, that he was never capable of giving me what i wanted, that i was so stupid not to realise earlier. The relationship was so one sided where emotions were concerned that I made myself physically ill carrying the load all by myself. I just feel so sad i got it so wrong. We both would have had such better lives if we had been with other people. If he had known 25 years ago that he had ADHD and Autism his life would have made more sense to him and we would never have got together.

And i know people with autism and ADHD can have a wonderful life, i know there are positives and i focus on them for my kids. But they both mean my exh could never be the man i thought and hoped he was. The formal diagnosis has made me so sad.

Hmm that behaviour is actually emotionally abusive - how do you know where the ASD ends and the abuse starts?

@Bramble234 “If im really honest with this thread im really angry at how much brain space and energy he has taken of mine over the years, and even is now, post divorce. I'm sick of thinking about him, his behaviour's, trying to make sense of it all, trying to figure out what I can do to fix it. I'm just sick of it. I'm done. I'm so sad as I wanted to be married for life and i loved him so much i would have walked through fire for him if he had met me half way.”

same.

im still married to him but it is in its dying throes.

thank you for the thread. It’s helpful to read other people’s perspectives when you are bamboozled by your marriage

We have lots of ASD and ADHD in our family and they aren’t selfish and uncaring so don’t assume this is the reason why your ex is like this or that your kids will be the same.

You seem to have thought it through to a large extent so I don’t have a whole lot more to add other than to say I’ve wasted 28 years on someone that has made me feel miserable also , same issues. Ive stayed for the children but I’m 100% I want to be free to enjoy my 60’s without the constant teeth gritting …. I think you deserve that also . All this walking on egg shells has taken its toll on me mentally and physically and I feel he has blocked me from so many good potential friendships by his behaviour. Take care .

I understand. Completely.

But there is no way you could have known, you probably did not even know what Autism looked like so how could you? Love is blind and everyone overlooks flaws in the beginning of a relationship, otherwise none would last a week.

Nobody is perfect. He has flaws but he obviously had some good things that you loved and that’s why you had children with him.

The only way to look at it, is that you got out. Count your blessings. 20 years, is better than 40 or 50 years with him.
Sending understanding and good wishes to you. You are free x

Well, quite.

My ex was an approachable, kind person on the surface-of course, otherwise the relationship wouldn't have ever even got off the ground! And then something like those behaviours would happen and I'd try to understand because DP would also be upset at the behaviour-of course if it had have been a case of 'yes well you deserved leaving you horrible bitch' or something, I would've recognised the behaviour as abusive. But, it wasn't that. It was 'I don't know, I didn't think you'd mind, I wouldn't mind if you did that, I was tired, I thought you'd be fine with it etc etc'. Then gradually I recognised ASD. And tried to help and understnad because of course there were good parts to the relationship and DP would promise to not do it again but, as someone with ASD, this wasn't possible to fulfil.

And those instances I've detailed above happened very regularly but they weren't the worst things. I was 'future faked' but 'autistic people can't lie (apparently)' and DP just 'didn't realise how hard it would be' so you can't really do much with those feelings, I had to accept that DP wasn't at fault-as someone with ASD it wasn't an intentional thing. I was regularly hurt during sex because 'this is how you do sex' and if I told DP that the usual, learned and established methods didn't work on me and actually hurt, it wasn't possible to do it a different way as ASD means habits are difficult to change.

So much to unpack in that short question …

The idea that ASD and abuse are two separate non-related things is the “bad egg” theory, as articulated by a pp on this thread. Or as ‘arseholery’ (‘that isn’t ASD, your DH is an arsehole’).

The only difference here is whether the person intends to be abusive. In my view, intent is irrelevant to the victim. Abuse isn’t only an action it’s also an experience - in safeguarding, impact has to be prioritised over intent. But with ASD that often doesn’t happen.

My DC, aged 8, was subjected to a violent attack which, if the ASD perpetrator was an adult, would have been classed as GBH. Was this viewed as abuse? Correctly - no it wasn’t. Did my son experience it as a severe traumatic incident which derailed his mental health and affected his schooling? Yes, he absolutely did. Consider your question in this context: where does the ASD end and abuse begin?

Different example: I have a female friend whose neurodiversity includes what is termed RSD (rejection sensitivity disphoria). Her husband told me they have a string of good friends they’ve lost as a result of her flipping out and losing control over things she has irrationally perceived as injustices. Is her roaring and false accusations abusive? Intentionally, no. Impact? Absolutely.

I think some ASD traits can manifest in behaviours that are abusive by definition of impact and irrespective of intent. Prisons have a high number of people with ASD in them — partly because unmanaged behaviours have serious impacts on others, and partly because neurodivergent people are more likely to be criminalised rather than have their behaviours supported with appropriate early intervention that fully acknowledges how harmful some behaviours are. For example, I fully believe the kid who assaulted my son is in a path to prison. I saw nothing in the school’s response to indicate any awareness that what he did was a significant indicator of future risk to himself and others. The response minimised both the risk and the impact.

The impact on victims - and I do see the people harmed by these behaviours as victims - can range from actual physical violence to the emotional abuse @Serendipettyexperienced.

ASD is a SPECTRUM. Just because some ND traits do not manifest in abusive behaviours, doesn’t mean that that is evidence ASD doesn’t include behaviours on the spectrum that are experienced as abusive. But people will constantly come on threads like this and say ‘I’m ND, and I’m not like that …’ or, as a pp suggested, this isn’t ASD these people are “bad eggs”. They’re not bad eggs: it’s ASD-related behaviour causing harm.

This thread has been about the impact on others. My view is if the impact looks like abuse, sounds like abuse, and feels like abuse, then the thinking and response needs to be framed around the fact one individual is experiencing abuse even if the other doesn’t intend it.

I do believe some ASD traits manifest in behaviours that others experience as abusive and I don’t think anyone should sacrifice their life tolerating it because ASD is a disability. Victims should not be sacrificed on the altar of “understanding”. Disability is not a free pass for harm.

I accept that I could have walked, we can all leave relationships. However if it were so simple, the 'relationships' board on here and the numerous groups on other platforms wouldn't exist.

The social expectation comes from society (rightly so) becoming more accepting of people with disabilities. My friends all loved my DP, they didn't see a lot of the behaviour, they saw the nice, lovely, helpful person who was a joy to have a couple of drinks or a day out with. If I confided they'd say 'Oh DP loves you so much, you know it wasn't meant that way' or 'It's just a fixation, they can't help it, they have ASD'. And of course there were good points to the relationship, isn't there always?

Ultimately, for some people, they may have found their ways of coping. My DP would've probably have been better off with someone who wasn't a 'people pleaser' naturally, and who didn't have such a need for closeness and 'real love'.

There are people like that, ND or otherwise, I know a lot of them whom are happy with 'just' companionship, company on days out, someone to manage the household while they do their own thing and someone to have a bottle of wine with at the weekend- and who may have just thought (for example at that festival) 'Oh well, DP's gone but ne'evermind, this is my favourite band, I'll have another glass of wine and go home'.

But for someone like me, that sort of behaviour was devastating and made me incredibly anxious. All behaviour was minimised by my friends, and DP either didn't understand why their behaviour was so hurtful (which of course made me question whether it actually was or if there was something wrong with me!) or wouldn't let me talk to them about it at all. I felt like I was going mad-especially as DP's verbal proclamations of love were plentiful. But love for me, is an adjective, not a noun. If you can know someone well, yet leave them at a party with a bunch of people they don't know, you don't love them-hell I couldn't do that to an acquaintance. But DP insisted you could. It was a very confusing situation, not as clear-cut as 'I don't like this so I am leaving you'.

Add in the fact that once we realised DP had ASD, they needed my support and I am naturally supportive and (I guess not unlke what some Pps have implied on this thread!) I felt that if we perused a diagnosis, I would understand better, DP would understand better and perhaps things would change for the better.

They didn't. If anything, DP knowing that they now had a reason for the behavior, acted as a handy excuse for it.

"They’re not bad eggs: it’s ASD-related behaviour causing harm."

I fully believe this, based not just on my ex DP but others I know with ASD. And I am close to a couple of them and have noted friend's experiences too. ASD may be a disability, and now people with ASD are integrated more into society it is a common one. But the way ASD-related behaviours impact others when they behave in certain ways, is no less harmful than if the behaviour wasn't caused by ASD.

Your last paragraph is a succinct, more concise way of explaining what I outlined above. Socially, I was meant to be understanding and helpful and accept DP's behaviour because it wasn't something done to intentionally harm me or cause me distress.

We see a lot of threads on here about ND children harming other children-they're thrown into an environment they cannot cope with-ND people being more accepted and more integrated into society is a good thing in many ways, but is it good for the ND child who can't cope in mainstream school? Is it good for their victim who is in the way during a meltdown and is injured? No, it is harmful all around. But children are taught to accept difference and 'that little girl who pinched you really hard isn't mean, she has a disability'.

A quick google will tell you about how many criminals have an ASD diagnosis-sometimes as a result of the consequences of their crime and their team wanting to use the disability to help them with a lesser sentence. Again, I am not saying this should not happen-but it is illustrative of how ASD behaviours, often as a result of the ASD person being unsupported and missed diagnoses, can manifest into something harmful. Disclaimer that I am not a complete idiot and I am aware that there are plenty of people with ASD who wouldn't hurt a fly, same as with NT people.

I am sorry that happened to your son, I hope he is doing better.

I do not know what the answer is.

I don’t think this is a reflection of society across the board though. I know that my friends and family, if I or anyone else in our extended group expressed unhappiness with a partner and said they wanted to leave, would not try and gaslight me/the unhappy person into thinking it wasn’t that bad because the person seemed lovely to them or say “oh it’s ASD therefore you need to put up with it.” They might express surprise if the person you’re describing doesn’t fit with their perception, but they would be supportive and trust that the person in the relationship knows it best and knows what’s best for them. And on here, on the relationship problem threads, people are very frequently reminded they can leave a relationship for any reason. Even if your partner is the nicest person in the world and has zero tangible faults it is still OK to leave! It sounds like the problem was more a lack of support from people around you coupled with your own people pleasing tendencies. And for the record, as an ND person, I absolutely do not think we should be given more leeway in relationships because of our neurodiversity. If our partners are unhappy they should make the right choice for themselves, ultimately it’s an incompatibility like any other.

Completely agree with this. I firmly believe abuse doesn’t have to be intentional to be abuse and I’d even go as far as to say a large proportion if not most abusive people including physically violent male domestic abusers are not doing it because they simply like hurting and controlling people - it’s probably because of trauma, mental health issues, something that affected their development in childhood. Does that mean we should accept it or give them a pass? Fuck no, abuse is abuse regardless of the reason behind it or the intention. My ND was initially misdiagnosed as BPD and there was a period of my life that I was so emotionally unregulated, depressed, self-hating and terrified of forming emotional bonds that I behaved abusively to a few people I dated over a number of years. On every occasion I was dumped pretty swiftly (and rightly so) - interesting that these men didn’t have their families and friends telling them to put up with it because I had a mental health issue. Does this idea that some people hold, that you should tolerate it because it’s ND, only apply to women in their minds? Because I don’t see men falling over themselves to remain in relationships with difficult women.

As an AuDHD wife and mum with an autistic DH, one autistic and one AuDHD DC, I really do want to emphasise that selfishness, an uncaring nature and coldness are not part of someone's makeup because of their diagnosis. I do believe there's a lot of men who end up being this way as partners for a variety of reasons and it isn't all to do with neurodivergence. I see a great deal of it being down to gender based socialisation, but also, a lot of autistic males in particular being totally cosseted and protected by overbearing or overprotective but usually well meaning families. My brother is definitely one of these. DH's oldest niece's boyfriend is an AuDHD male who has had the world ordered to his exact liking all the way through life, has been waited on hand and foot, and cannot cope with the compromises necessary for being in a relationship. She is also ND, but there's no room for her needs at all in that relationship, and we're all sat here - even as a whole ass ND family - hoping she realises this guy is trash, and his trashness is totally enabled by everyone around him who goes "aww, he's ND, he can't help it". Fuck that noise.

Both these bawbags (including my own brother, yes) were diagnosed as kids, so having an earlier diagnosis doesn't stop you from becoming a bawbag of an adult.

How do you process a divorce from a ND spouse? Same way as any other divorce. It's not the ND that's caused it, it's the behaviour and the inability to compromise, equally partner, share the load or support you adequately and be a team. Being ND does not mean you are incapable of doing those things. ND is not a cop out for shit men, and it should not be used as one. The reframe here is, you are divorcing a shit man who happens to also be ND.

The best thing you can do for your kids? Adjust and adapt for their ND, yes. Advocate for them to have equal opportunity to succeed. But do not make the world tilt on its axis for them, expect that everyone else will bend for them, allow them to be unkind or cruel without consequences, or absolve them of the basic shit (age appropriate obvs) we all have to do in life.

HRTFT but wanted to jump on and say that you’re a lovely, brave person @Bramble234 . I’m glad to see in your updates that you’re starting to find your anger though, as your ex sounds like a grade A arsehole. Being ND doesn’t explain all of his behavior-as PP’s have said, a person can be ND and an arsehole at the same time.

You housing him in recent months was exceptional as he really should have moved in with his gf or other relatives- asking your ex to house you five years post-divorce is extraordinary.

What I’d advise you to do is start detaching as much as you can from him, especially after he moves out in March. Ok, you want to be nice to him for the children’s sake, but I’d stick to communications purely about arrangements for them, nothing about his situation/what’s going on in your life, etc. unless it’s relevant to your children.

Keep everything formal as if he’s a business associate and if he asks you for any help or support in the future, respond with “That’s not possible,” or something similarly bland.

You can’t change the past but he doesn’t need to be a significant part of your future. 💐

So you've decided that ADHD/Autistic people are cold, cruel and selfish, are now labelling your kids as cold and selfish because of their diagnosis and feel that you, as a neurotypical person, are expected to accommodate ND people too much because you, for some bizarre reason, think that they are not fighting a huge battle to adapt as much as possible every single day?

I have no idea if your husband is horrible, or your kids, but I can say that you're also not coming across great.

I suggest you do some work to educate yourself on autism and ADHD so you can better support your children without putting unhelpful and untrue stereotypes on them.

My ex has ASD (not diagnosed) and was very much like your ex. He’s still very cold and hasn’t had much involvement with his dc (who are also both on the spectrum, one severely). My ex has a new partner too whilst I am single, mainly because he doesn’t have kids to care for and partly because he can’t cope being alone and has just got together with the first person who would have him.

I have got to the point where I have just excepted who he is. I don’t think it’s all because he’s autistic, not all people on the spectrum are cold and uncaring.

@Serendipetty I think that comment that you could have left is very harsh and I hope you don't give it any more brain space. There are so many reasons why we stay - practical like money, housing, health etc. Emotionally we think we can support, change etc the ND person. Sometimes we just don't understand that the ND person won't change, compromise etc and we keep trying and thinking they will become aware of my needs if I just say or do the right thing. When you love someone it takes a long time to get to the point you can't live like that anymore. I know stereo types have moved on but the thought of being a single mum, as a label and also practically can keep us in the relationship. Along then with a people pleasing nature, which I have too.

I feel such a failure that my marriage failed. Yet I did everything and more to make it work. He did nothing to make it work yet feels no guilt at all.

@BruFord thankyou for your words. I feel calmly detached now. A switch has gone in me. I dont care what he thinks so i dont need to try and please him all the time. I am free as another poster put it :)

@FerriswheelsKissesandLilacs please read through the thread. Most of us are talking about our lived experiences. Being with a ND person means we likely have ND kids and we all love them deeply. We may not want to be with our husbands anymore but we have become very educated on ND as we want to help our children navigate their future in a better way then we, or our partners/ex, have done. We have also commented that arsehole and ND are not the same thing. And arsehole is prevalent in the NT community as well.

Yes, perhaps not. It was probably exacerbated by the fact that DP would only see me every few weeks, and also that DP presented as extremely helpful. I think it was at least partially ASD, that DP had to always be busy at social events. It was a means of not having to socialise or talk, and this manifested into always pouring people's wine, doing all of the tidying up, being the one behind the BBQ, topping up everyone's drinks, making all the food if we camped etc etc., setting things up, sorting things out.

I think that was part of it for friends and family. To them, DP was 'SOooooo lovely'!
It made me feel very alone, as if I could see something nobody else could and nobody believed me. I will say though, one friend who I know outside of my other friendship groups, absolutely hated my being in that relationship and regularly told me to get away from it. But she was the only one. She'd had experience of people with ASD herself and saw it all happening and how withdrawn I was becoming and how I'd lost a huge part of myself.

I am not saying I couldn't get out of the relationship, I could and I eventually did of course. But it wasn't easy. And the above reasons coupled with my feeling guilty and DP insisting that a lot of our problems would be solved once we lived together (i could see the merit in this) kept me there for too long.

Ive just got some difficult news about an upcoming surgery and I will be in hospital 10-14 days. I am upset, worried for my kids, job and dogs and myself. I have no choice but to rely on ex. I've just told him and he's clearly in a huff about my long hospital stay and what it means to him. Hes not uttered a word about how I feel with the news.

I now have no desire to try and get any emotional support out of him at all, and thats good I will no longer be frustrated by fruitless attempts. But its so upsetting to have another adult in the house and yet I cant get a hug and be comforted when I need it. Its so much harder having someone physically near, but emotionally out of reach, than being home on my own 😥.

Ive told myself I need to get through this surgery then get him out the house and have as little to do with him as possible.

I have also told him about a few things for the kids today like teachers appointment, orthodontist etc and he isnt interested at all. All he did was moan about daughters behaviour yesterday when daughter was with him and his girlfriend. He said her behaviour was so bad and so extreme that she needs an autism assessment as she must be autistic. He cant see the irony that those words coming from some one with ASD!

This is such an interesting thread, learning a lot.

My ex is undiagnosed ASD - has led all his life fairly isolated and designed a career around working alone. Very low energy and very “I don’t know” when asked anything. At the start was extremely helpful and loving, in I think a genuine way. Yet completely avoidant if he sensed anything off with me (seemed like RSD) so would withdraw thus making me anxious. Talking to him about any issues is where it got abusive - he’d not be able to see my point if it was about how is behaviour affected me at all, and would just straight out project his issues on to me (ie anger and being harsh on myself). In a sneery nasty way “ie you spoilt princess” and blaming his mental health dips on the relationship due to his exhaustion from masking around me.
He did a slow exit where he just sort of phased me out, would repair a bit, have another wobble and then have a nasty one-way argument until I ended it.

No sorry or anything since. Just a random and totally inappropriate “happy new year X”

Am not sure where he sits on the abusive/angry man - ASD and really struggling spectrum. Maybe both? The outcome is sort of the same. I sadly can’t help him, I don’t think and am heartbroken myself.

I have always been the one to reach out after ruptures, as he has just assumed it’s over after past (fairly normal) disagreements. So I highly doubt he will be getting in touch any time soon

Oh and to also add, when I was diagnosed ADHD, had bouts on antidepressants and HRT - absolute zero empathy, would take my ups and down personally and have a bigger MH episode

I can’t stand this rhetoric that an opinion you don’t agree with is harsh and shouldn’t be taken any notice of. Ultimately, everyone can make a choice to leave a relationship that isn’t working for them, in the absence of severe extenuating circumstances like abuse or poverty. Being a people pleaser is entirely a you problem - why on an anonymous forum are you apparently expecting the same people-pleasing from others in that you only want nice comments that agree with you that you’re a powerless victim? The sooner more women realise they’re in control of their own lives the better.

My ex was like this. I called him a topper. If I was sad, he was sadder, if I was scared he was more scared. So no matter what I went through I always ended up comforting him.

Your point of view is valid, of course, but this thread is about the effects a relationship with a ND person has on NT person.

A NT person could have different feelings about leaving a relationship than you would. And I think your bias is showing in your response. You cant understand why she didnt just leave. Of course you cant understand as your ND. The same way I cant understand the seemingly heartless approach of yours just to walk away, like its easy. We are all different. This thread has included some people who have succesful relationships both ND/ND and ND/NT. Of course I wish them all the best.

However I am after support from NT people who are, or have been, with ND partners. Hence why I will often resonate more with, and agree more with, them.

Honestly, NT people waste so much time and brain space on what other people think of them. It is wild and incomprehensible to me.

Edited to add that I too have stayed in bad relationships when the obvious action was to leave (but not for 20 years) and now I’ve done the work to become a mentally healthy person I can hand on heart look back and see that the only thing that stopped me leaving was weakness and lack of self esteem. I don’t think that’s exclusive to ND people.

Also the ND/NT thing is irrelevant really. If a relationship isn’t working for you, leave. It really is that simple.