How do you grieve a marriage to someone with Autism and ADHD after divorce?

[Bramble234]

I was married 20 years. In the early days there were a few odd things he said but i was totally in love. After 10 years we had a lot of issues with needing IVF, my health issues, issues with family pets etc etc. I noticed as soon as the hit the fan he ran a mile. When we disagreed we couldn't talk about it. He just didnt seem able to chat. We saw a counsellor and it didnt help. Eventually we got divorced, We coparent our 2 kids. He has severe depression although its somewhat controlled now. I have severe physical health issues, work full time and do 95% of the parenting. He's had a girlfriend for a year or so. I'm single after a 3 year relationship post divorce.

Recently our son was assessed and has ADHD. This has bought things to a head with my exh and he finally got assessed. He has always known he has dyslexia but has now been diagnosed with ADHD and Autism.

We tried to have a conversation yesterday about our daughter and his autism is so so so obvious now. His response to some of the chat was just cruel and heartless. I think back to the last 25 years and he has never said thanks to me, never told me im good at anything, never given me a hug and comforted me through all the trauma we have had. He's had so much therapy that if i tell him now that im struggling with something he says that he 'hears what im saying'. He sounds like a robot. He doesn't feel anything, He's just trying to express the emotions he has been told he should have. I've recently learned i need another surgery and his response was what if it goes wrong and your disabled, meaning he would have to have the kids more.

We divorced 5 years ago but he has lived with me and the kids for the last 6 months because he lost his job and house. He is moving out in March to his own place as he has a job now. I didn't want to let him move back in but he had no where else to go and the kids want to see him.

I just cant get passed the anger at him for being so uncaring, at myself for not knowing something was different all along, for always thinking at some point he would give me a hug and comfort me even after 20 years of him never doing that.

My kids have ADHD and one has dyslexia. I fear so much for them if they grow up like their dad. He is so selfish, self obsessed and cold. He cant help it, i know that now. Its how his brain work. As he has a girlfriend i assume he doesn't come across this way to her.

I just feel so sad. I just don't know how to move on. Its been nearly 5 years and i still struggle to accept that he just isn't the man i thought i married, that he was never capable of giving me what i wanted, that i was so stupid not to realise earlier. The relationship was so one sided where emotions were concerned that I made myself physically ill carrying the load all by myself. I just feel so sad i got it so wrong. We both would have had such better lives if we had been with other people. If he had known 25 years ago that he had ADHD and Autism his life would have made more sense to him and we would never have got together.

And i know people with autism and ADHD can have a wonderful life, i know there are positives and i focus on them for my kids. But they both mean my exh could never be the man i thought and hoped he was. The formal diagnosis has made me so sad.

OP this was a long marriage. Can you think back to when you met and why you chose to marry? Why you chose him, why he chose you?

Why you are still embroiled with a man you divorced 5 years ago? There is something off with not making a clean break and intervening if he struggles. Not struggles as a parent but as an individual. There are many of us who have divorced who would never allow an ex to move back in. Who did this benefit and why? You seem to want thanks. A pay out. You need me so …let this go. He’s just a reason to avoid your own issues. Your DC wil thank you.

I spent just 5 years with someone with ASD and it broke me, physically and mentally. I don't think I will ever be the same person, I can seldom/barely remember who that was!

It's awful. I do buy into Cassandra Syndrome, controversial or not, it helps me to have that solidarity and a 'thing' to put to what happened to me and why.

Ex would acknowledge things, but couldn't change, behaviour was abusive but not done purposely which creates a paradox of 'yes this behaviour is abusive but I can't say it is and I can't address it with my partner because it is caused by a disability'-where do you go with that?

I am not saying everyone with ASD would and does behave like my ex did.

What I am saying is I recognise that ASD is why my ex behaved that way, and that what my ex did to me both in terms of on separate, individual occasions and overall as a whole, and what happened to me as a result isn't any less real, than if the behaviour and subsequent effect of it wasn't down to a protected characteristic.

FB groups for Cassandra Syndrome have helped me.

Therapy hasn't done anything but I do not tend to respond well to therapy overall.

Focusing on myself, self-care, slowing down and learning who I am again has been the biggest help, I would say.

This is harsh. She has explained that if she hadn’t let him move in temporarily he would have forgotten any duty to their shared children and moved five hours away to get his own needs met just at the moment when her health was so bad she couldn’t manage the children alone. Lots of people—men as well as women—make a similar choice when they or an ex partner gets sick, by the way.

You've been through a lot OP in this relationship, and with the current situation with your ex, the diagnosis is just another straw on your back. I think a lot of your ex's behaviour goes far beyond being ND and gets into some weaponised incompetence and manipulation. All of that is a lot to emotionally process and grieve the life you had hoped for.

I don't think it's wrong for you to not want to have another intimate relationship with an ND, just like I don't think it's wrong when ND people say that they'd only want to date another ND person. I think a few of my bad relationships come from neurotype clashes and I don't think my marriage would work if my husband was NT.

I do find it concerning how many, including apparently professionals working with ND people, still buy into the outdated idea around lack of empathy. I think the double empathy problem research has been around for over a decade now and while still young in research terms, has a better way of framing and shows promising ways of working around the issue of neurotype clashes in understanding each other rather than the concept that someone's assholery must be about their neurotype.

I will read all the posts later, but just wanted to mention the empathy gap- you are both failing to connect with each other, not just him with you.

He isn’t uncaring when he doesn’t say you look nice, anymore than a visually impaired person is.

Acceptance and prioritising yourself makes all the difference. You have to stop trying to make a connection and make the relationship work in favour of getting what you want. That levels the playing field and you are less resentful.

Also, your DC will be different because they are being raised by someone who understands and will help them extend their awareness. They will find people whose needs and preferences align with them, and they will be better practised at demonstrating their concern.
DH was raised by people who think it’s totally normal not to greet people when they visit, or speak to them when you are in the same room.

All the understanding in the world won’t change the loneliness.

@Isayitasitis Conversely, I could say the same to you: how do you really know that your masking is more challenging than mine or anyone else’s? I think, from the comment, that there may be an assumption that it automatically is, because you are ND. That doesn’t leave much room for the possibility that NT people have to mask too.

My introversion was crippling in my twenties. University and going out were hard — my anxiety could be so intense that I would be physically sick. I’ve also experienced physical violence; it’s very difficult to function in ‘normal’ society when you carry a lot of fear with you. I’m also foreign and, frankly, being foreign in the UK isn’t always easy. My illness means I’m smiling cheerfully through pain, and not talking about it because people don’t want to hear it.

If I could say I’m ND, it would shortcut the hours of explaining I would have to do to achieve ‘understanding’ from others. I think the reality of what ‘masking’ is far more complicated than prevailing narrative allows.

Ironically, I’ve often wished that my DH could spend some time in my brain so he could experience how things feel for me. There are some feelings and viewpoints he doesn’t seem to understand at all unless he’s felt them himself or articulated them in his own words.

I think the point about gender socialisation is partly true, but it’s also a generalisation. Most of the ND adults I know are women. None of them are in relationships, and I can understand why. However, I could never say that to them — it wouldn’t be acceptable — they would react badly to a truthful explanation of why their relationships fail even if it’s blindingly obvious.

“We are not all like that. Just because you know a few, doesn't mean it is a representation of us all. “

What do you mean all like “that”? What do you think I’m saying?

“To say you would avoid ND people in any relationship form (is that just partners or friends as well?) Is the exact reason why I like to call out people making general assumptions about people with ND conditions.”

For me, partners. It takes too much away from me.

“To me it's no different than trying to label ethnicities together with generalisations, because you've met 3 bad eggs and think this is everyone ND.”

It’s quite different because the view is grounded in experience, struggle and trauma - not prejudice. Could you reflect on your comment about ethnicities and consider whether your response is silencing via the mechanism of stigmatisation.

Also I know many more than 3. NONE of whom I’d ever describe as a ‘bad egg’ - it’s YOUR assumption that they are a ‘bad egg’. They are good kind people, but my experience is their ND traits have a very negative impact on their relationships with me and others. There is definitely an expectation that the NT people should understand and adapt and tolerate. That comes with a cost to some of us that isn’t recognised, and the cost is sometimes too much.

Yes, the compromise is very one-sided.

We are content together but we do live semi-parallel lives in the same house.

I can’t get emotional support from DH. He is very literal and often paraphrases what he THINKS I’m feeling back to me as if he’s read it somewhere. It’s worse than not being heard so I talk to friends instead.

I insulate myself with work.

I don’t feel guilty. It is what it is and is necessary for us to live together without me nagging/controlling/crying etc.

So many adjustments which are about isolating myself from the things that affect me. He’s kind, intelligent, gentle, generous and TOTALLY oblivious to how much I’ve had to bend to cope. I often wonder what it would be like if he wasn’t ND.

This is exactly how I feel.

I won't ever date anyone with ASD again.
It's simply too much for me.
It isnt prejudice, it is based on my experience of being with an ex. I accept that it is possible I may miss out on someone with ASD who is nothing like my ex, and would be great for me, maybe, I accept that. But there's a risk there that I am simply not willing to take.

This is autism symptoms big time I know cause I have them and look it up you are so wrong about because no emotions show and we say things as we see them straight to the point and everything is black or white is not cruelness, rudeness,nastiness it's who we are we are made like that. You need to look at this very very differently and really so some research and actually see there's some very very simple things you personally could change to realise he does care just in a different way. Luckily for me family, hubby and friends never jump on any of what you mentioned once they informed themselves of autism and what it is and means and how to work around it rather than constantly telling me I'm rude or nasty etc etc and since they did not once have I shut off or walked away because things got overwhelming as nobody seemed to get me. The last 2 years have been the best of my whole life just a shame it took till I was 34 to be diagnosed but hey better late than never

@ActiveTiger do you look carefully and do research into how things are for others too?

Thank you for this post. Really helpful and so is the concept of radical acceptance which I now know about thanks to you taking the time to write and link 🙏

Hi @ActiveTiger
could you please say more about this sentence:

“very very simple things you personally could change to realise he does care just in a different way”

”informed themselves of autism and what it is and means and how to work around”

I’m in a similar position to OP although not divorced and no idea whether my relationship is salvageable. I don’t know for certain that he is neuro divergent but any pointers would be very welcome.

Sorry to intrude OP. I do feel for you very much as there is lots I recognise here and it’s touched a lot of nerves in the middle of the night so hope you don’t mind me jumping on.

I have upmost sympathy for OP and all those who have been treated badly in relationships and acknowledge that being NT can make it hard to understand where ND people are coming from. It’s also not the job of the NT partner to continually compromise.
However I find it really unfair that so many posters are being pretty judgmental of those with Autism. Autism is a social communication disorder so obviously those who have it are very likely to struggle with close relationships. DS has Autism and DH almost certainly has it too. You could not meet 2 more kind or caring people. Both show empathy, it doesn’t always come automatically but it can definitely be learnt and it may show itself slightly differently to mine but I have met many NT people who are thoughtless, unkind or mean.
I have a chronic illness which has become much more serious and both DS and DH do so much to help me. I couldn’t manage without them. Both have had to learn to understand how my conditions affect me like I’ve had to learn more about them. I’m definitely not saying it’s always been easy. I’ve often had to compromise and so have they.
I think you have given so much to this relationship OP, I’m not saying you should have tried harder or done anything differently. There is hope for your autistic DC and I hope you get the support you need to navigate their condition. However Autism is a spectrum and many ND people have so much to offer. DS has many strengths, some of them as a result of his Autism , despite living in a world that is alien to him in many ways. I hope you and other posters can see those who are ND as individuals, rather than a general negative stereotype once some of this hurt you understandably feels is not so raw.

Those quotes sum it up pretty well.

@Newbie125

”Autism is a social communication disorder so obviously those who have it are very likely to struggle with close relationships. “

But close relationships are foundational to human existence, enriching life and giving it meaning.

This thread is about situations where one partner is “starved” by the absence of things fundamental to close relationships due to the fact a partner is ND. And it’s about the social expectation that they should accept suffering because their misery originates from a disability and is not their partner’s fault.

Your comment that it can be hard for a NT person to “see where they are coming from” implies that if a NT person understood the disability, that misery would vanish.

The human need for warmth, love, communication doesn’t vanish with understanding. The implication (like the quotes below) is that the suffering partner must accept and live with emptiness - ‘educate themselves’ and shut up.

I also refute the idea that one ND person automatically knows where another ND person is coming from, and that it’s only NT people who are in the dark.

I don’t think this is what I’m saying at all. Struggling with relationships doesn’t mean meaningful relationships aren’t possible, it means a ND person might need help to understand how social communication can mean certain things that are not obvious to them. All relationships are built on communication and both parties always have to negotiate how the relationship works and hopefully succeeds. I have really positive relationships with DH and DS although I’m NT and both do with my other NT DC as well as friends and family members.
Understanding how your partner thinks is vital in ND and NT relationships. Obviously in many relationships, including that of OP and PPs if the compromise is only one way it doesn’t matter how much you understand about your partner, they have to do their bit. I was just trying to say being ND or specifically having Autism, doesn’t mean you aren’t capable of being a good partner or friend.

No they don’t. I don’t know your motive but that’s not a helpful reply. If it’s obvious what are the very very simple things you can personally change?

Apologies. They sum up the thread very well, which has been about how hard and painful it is to be the person in a relationship with someone who is ND and the expectation that it’s on them to do the work, make the compromises, educate themselves, adapt, accept the challenges, and change to accommodate the disability.

Then along comes someone who is ND to say - without any sense of irony - that the solution is for the person living with the ND person is to do the work, make the compromises, educate themselves, adapt, accept the challenges, and change to accommodate them.

I would not propose you change. The alternative solution is to refuse to do any of that if you are deeply unhappy because that is fucking HARD and a lifelong adjustment. I would say LTB and find someone who makes you genuinely happy without the need to adapt yourself.

Thanks @chocciechocface I understand. It’s all so very hard though.

I think that the approach of educating yourself and learning about another person's ASD so that you can better understand why they behave how they do has it's merits but also it's limits.

For example understanding why a person may appear completely unmoved when you are visibly distressed is all well and good for a more distant relationship like a colleague or extended family member but not for a closer one like a spouse or a parent. You might be able to understand that the other person isn't being deliberately cruel but your need is still there and not being met. It's not unreasonable to have some basic emotional needs that are non-negotiable with a partner.

@cupfinalchaos that must be hard with your dad. I totally agree that the autistic behaviour gets worse over time. If exh had been this bad at the start I would never have got to a second date!

@PrizedPickledPopcorn Thanks for your reply. I have to say that getting my exh to say i 'look nice' is a million miles from the problem we have. I don't want a compliment. I just want him to have some empathy and understanding of my view, whether he agrees with it or not. Actually i cant even put into words what i want anymore. But is not extras like saying i look nice.

@chocciechocface I agree masking goes both ways. ND people always want us to understand their view but it seems very little happens the other way. I'm a big believer in fake it til you make it. I have an exec role and there have been loads of times i've had to fake the confidence i have needed to portray. I hate big gatherings but I have to do them so i mask my inner discomfort. But i know what's expected and project that. If that's what masking is then exh hasn't done any masking in all the years I've known him (26). He's never projected what the expected response was whether he understood it or not.
Im afraid i was in your shoes 10 years ago and i went through the counselling with exh. We went through the 'set an alarm every Tuesday to tell you to put the bins out', alarm every morning to empty dishwasher etc etc but he couldn't even do that.

I love you eloquent last post. I hadn't the guts to say it that way! That all the advice from ND people on the thread is to understand them more. No mention of learning more about NT needs.

On a side note I do also know lots of NT people that you can tell why they are single too :)

@Lemonaided hijack away 😁

@Newbie125 I was married to exh for 20 years. 10 years were fine, then 5 years there were problems then covid hit, i couldn't see my friends so i was stuck with him. The lack of opportunity to feel a connection with friends, and struggling to home school 2 kids solo whilst working full time was the final straw for me. You may be able to have a fulfilling 2 way relationship with your ND husband but that is not my experience. He certainly hasn't made any effort to meet me half way. And i don't think that's his fault necessarily as he just cant. But i finally have to stop trying to turn him into a NT person which i'm only just realising is impossible now he has a diagnosis. I'm finally letting go. I wish with all my heart that we could have had a loving, 2 way relationship with his ND and I have done everything and more to make it work. I really wanted my marriage to be for life.

Thanks everyone
I've been on a few of the FB cassandra support groups and they are all for people still in the relationships. I have to be honest and its made me so glad I'm out of the relationship and I'm just now focused on getting him out the house ASAP. Ive finally given up trying to change or train him. I've realised I am not alone, im not a failure because I couldn't make it work with him. There isn't a magic compromise I could make.

If im really honest with this thread im really angry at how much brain space and energy he has taken of mine over the years, and even is now, post divorce. I'm sick of thinking about him, his behaviour's, trying to make sense of it all, trying to figure out what I can do to fix it. I'm just sick of it. I'm done. I'm so sad as I wanted to be married for life and i loved him so much i would have walked through fire for him if he had met me half way.

I am damaged and I hope to meet some people post divorce from a ND person to see how they are coping. I would like to meet someone else but you can hardly write on a dating profile that you will only date NT people can you. My judgement was so off with him and i am paralyzed with the fear of the same again.

Honestly, you ladies on here are wonderful and if i could give you all a hug to say thanks I would. For those thinking of ending a relationship I feel for you, i've been there and know how hard it is and I also know how strong you all are that you are literally turning yourself inside out to make things work. I'm exhausted hearing your stories but i'm so glad you have shared. You have really helped me. I wish you all the best.

I also agree with this. The solipsism that often comes with ASD meant for me that DP couldn't give me the very basics of a relationship. I understood why, I basically became an expert on the behaviour and the reasoning behind it. But that doesn't mean I was unaffected. I am still affected now and we split over a year ago. I went through so many devastating hits to my self-worth and need for a very basic connection that I became nothing. As an NT person I didn't exist as I had to pretzel myself around the needs of the ND person. I wasn't 'allowed' to be upset or ask for an explanation because DP couldn't help their behaviour.

They didn't leave me and walk home in the middle of a date at a festival because of being a nasty git who wanted to upset me, it was because they suddenly weren't happy with something so went home where they'd be okay. But the affect on me, who went from happily dancing and watching my favourite band to wondering what the hell I did to deserve that and being left alone in the middle of the night, is no different.

DP didn't become snappy and dismissive and horrible to me at an all-day event, for the entire event, because they wanted to upset me either. It was because they struggled to have me, who was in one 'box' in their head, around their friends who were in a different box. But that doesn't mean that I didn't feel very upset and devastated that I was somehow a pariah at an event I had been looking forward to, where I knew nobody other than DP who wouldn't even talk to me unless it was with an angry dismissive tone, like I was annoying by just simply existing.

But I wasn't allowed to approach this, as I would have been with an NT person who was just having a bad day or perhaps had some reason for being that way. DP found it difficult to talk openly because of ASD, so it would upset them. I just had to put up and shut up, while DP, happy as Larry, went about usual things and then slept soundly at the side of me. Had I tried, I would have been met with a meltdown or a storming off.

Sorry for thread derail OP. I just think this stuff is important to understand. It does not mean I am ableist nor that I do not have people in my life with ASD who bring good things to it, who I appreciate. But in terms of relationships, I cannot do it and I have learned that the hard way.

You didn’t have to accept this though. Anyone can leave a relationship for any reason including behaviour you find intolerable, regardless of the cause. Where is this social expectation that you should put up and shut up? I see it said far more frequently that illness/mental health/disability etc isn’t an excuse for poor behaviour and that anyone can and should dump someone who makes them feel bad. I’m neurodiverse and have very low empathy, but in the interests of fairness I don’t expect any from other people and frequently tell my partner he can and should dump me if he feels he can’t deal with it.