Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ND: support thread 17

[SpecialMangeTout3]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5355546-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-16?page=10&reply=148665446

I do believe that ASD in the version that used to be called Aspergers presents as the outer edge of "normal masculinity". Men in general simply aren't programmed to read emotions like women are, never mind scan for them. It isn't that they can't be bothered, it isn't innate.

I agree and disagree with this. It very much is dependent on the upbringing and what boys are taught. I’ve known some really lovely men and I’ve some friends raising some lovely emotionally aware and empathetic boys. society has a lot to do with it. Emotions are seen as weak women things so men are taught to hide theirs I feel. It’s about recognition of strengths. I think many men recognise their wives are better equipped perhaps at being and understanding emotions. ASD men perhaps don’t see any need as they don’t recognise it. It’s a balance of strengths and weaknesses in a relationship but you have to have a baseline understanding of the parameters which i
don't think they do because they don’t experience the same world.

I wonder if ASD women find relationships as challenging or if they fair better or worse then the men?

Intellectually be knows this, and we had year of monthly sessions with a therapist about this. But emotionally it all goes out the door when he's angry and he starts accusing me of just wanting to be 'fluffy' which will cause DS to fail and I tell him that no, this is about what is actually shown by experts to be effective. And he gets angry because he says he is the only one trying to 'help' DS and then he get tearful that he thinks DS is failing and 'years and years behind' (he isn't, he's probably about average really). Some facts have helped a bit, such as him telling him that 7 and up at GCSE are all A equivalents so a 5 or 6 is not a bad mark - he just hadn't realised that and thought 6 was a really low grade. But he still seems to forget that sometimes.

DH is about to get some therapy himself and I am going to ask him to talk about this and addressing his fear of DS not achieving and how much this has to do with, TBH, his own lack of professional success.

I can talk from my experience with my ex.

But I know she has found it incredibly hard in past relationships and was treated very badly.
I think a lot of men are less understanding, tolerant and supportive, and will likely move on at the first sign of any issues.

I was with her for nearly 6 years before it reached point where I was emotionally and physically run down.

We have a child together (main reason I stayed with her so long) and am doing my best to support her still through her struggles, but it’s tough.

I do fear for her though in future relationships.

I was thinking it must be so much harder as it’s almost a given that women are emotional and empathetic.

If you don’t mind me asking what did she struggle with? (Perhaps it will help me understand my mum)

My view might be bleak but I feel most people are nowhere near as emotionally aware and mature as they think. It’s very visible on the MN threads for example.
And that certainly apply to men and their ‘inability’ to do the emotional work needed in a relationship (NT or ND)
I also think that this is the reason why so many men are now ‘single’ or women don’t want to marry or even have children. Women got financially independent. Theyre even EXPECTED to be financially independent. But men haven’t changed their behaviour. They haven’t learnt to be supportive. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

So yes if I compare dh to other NT men, There’s a lot of things in common 😳😳 behaviour wise - the lack of support, the emotional load etc… A lot of that is coming from society ideas of what’s acceptable to do as a man.

But Some of it isn’t. The lack of small talk, the inability to be vulnerable, to talk about feelings at all. It goes deeper than the mere inability (chosen or not) of many NT men to support.
Like dh telling (years after) that he expected me to stay at home with the dcs because that’s what women do. I looked at him baffled - did I ever tell you that’s what I wanted to do? No but that’s what my mum did. You mean your mum who worked as a farmer, moved bails until she gave birth to you? The one who never stopped, never had a hols, and covered for your dad each time HE got injured?? You call that not working and staying at home with the children 🤯🤯
There’s some black and white thinking + rigidity, scripts that things are supposed to fit in and when facts don’t fit said scripts theyre either ignored or made to fit.

On the other side, autistic people are less likely to adhere to ‘societal rules’. It made things much easier between me and dh on a lot of other areas - he certainly was and is much more accepting of me and my own differences (eg being a foreigner, I’ve never fitted where we live - small town on the north of England but none of my ‘quirks’ have been an issue to him)

A lot!

Time management (and she needs a set structure / schedule to function. We couldn’t do anything impromptu)
Decision making (even simple decisions like what to make for lunch she struggled with),
Forming and maintaining friendships,
A constant feeling of being overwhelmed and needing to shut herself away to journal / make lists.
Hyper focus on her interests. Always puts her interests first (even before our child’s well-being),
Being unable to control anger, and lashing out at people.

When our child became a toddler she got worse, and would shut herself off from our child. She’d put them in front of the tv, put her headphones on and would turn away / refuse to interact with our child when they approached her. She said she didn’t have a ‘bond’ with our child, as she couldn’t understand them / what they want and why.

Oh I’m so sorry that sounds really awful for you both. That last bit is so sad. I know I was strapped in a car seat so they could do what they needed to do as if I was just in the way. Most doubtless screaming my face off. I don’t know what my kids want half the time and I suspect it’s mostly because they don’t know what they want either. But you just be present and show them that what they want is important and you’ll stop for them.

My impression from knowing one really well and others through a forum is that some don't mask and just behave like men. My best friend has zero understanding of emotion. Interestingly it makes her a really good shoulder to cry on as she doesn't try to join in with my upset. The rest mask much better than the men, but when the mask drops they are banjaxed and can't function until they've had a reset. The masking really takes its toll.

I'm sure that's to great a generalisation, it's just what I've come across.

How does she validate and make you feel better? I’m just wondering if she can’t understand it what does she do with your emotions?

I’m just going to throw in here my DS (AuDHD) does feel other people’s emotions and does get emotionally distressed himself. He is very aware of his own emotions and behaviours. He doesn’t sweat the small minutiae of friendships so much, doesn’t understand why people get worked up about minor stuff but does genuinely care about his friends and their well-being. I’m aware we generalise a lot here but I think the environment you’re raised in makes a huge difference and hopefully this generation of autistic kids will be able to handle their emotions better and learn to consider others even if they don’t necessarily get the emotions, because they have parents willing to listen and help them understand themselves.

She just listens without judgement. She doesn't do the typical thing of "yes mine does that too" or even worse try to cap my experience with a worse example of her own problems as so many women do. She doesn't minimise it as men do. She doesn't start crying with me, like many women do. She's just there for me.

That’s nice. Mine always trys to lower how I feel (tells me how I shouldn’t, it’s not that bad etc) basically so I stop feeling it so she can get away. It’s all for her and not for me, so I don’t bother and we have no emotional safety and no relationship really.

“The rest mask much better than the men, but when the mask drops they are banjaxed and can't function until they've had a reset. The masking really takes its toll.”

Definitely agree with this that @Imdunfer said.
They can present at work and in social settings fine, but it’s when the mask slips which is when the worst of it is exposed. That’s mostly at home and around those who love them most.

The person I'm taking about was a police officer for a very long time. I think she probably had a lot of listening training and experience.

It probably goes to show that both women and men can be moderated by training to some extent.

My OH faked empathy and seeing other people's point of view really convincingly until he retired and gave up work. Then epilepsy blew it apart altogether and yesterday he was berating me for not avoiding a pothole that I had to point out, twice, that he had a view of and I had none!

So really in social situations what are they masking? I dislike social situations, I find it loud and I’m bloody awkward as I can’t do small talk. My ADHD just shuts off with small talk and conversations that it finds boring. Not because I think the person is boring and I’d never be rude, it’s all on me. I would never try and steer a conversation away just because I feel awkward or downplay it. Do ASD brains just switch off when people start to talk about emotions? My mum will steer the conversation away, end it, move it on, but I find I really offensive. I’ve had to listen to things that don’t really interest me so what’s the difference?

My very good female friend who is AuDHD actually is an excellent shoulder to cry on.
When she was working, she’d manage to have people open up to all sorts. They felt safe with her. Why? Yes she wasn’t taken over by her own emotions. But also she had spent a great amount of time learning about psychology agd people’s behaviour. Like a special interest so her outlook was always great.

Many ASD women are making psychology/understanding people’s behaviour & emotions a special interest, Not the least to fit in better. But it also makes them much more mature and supportive too.

@Pashazade i agree with you re empathy as in feeling other people’s feelings. I found people on the spectrum are very empathetic in that way.
And yes, the environment theyre brought up in will make a huge difference. Not sure it can erase alexithymia but it sure is easier to recognise your feelings when you’ve been taught about it and have been allowed to feel too.

I found where it doesn’t work well with the people I know is to translate that into ‘putting yourself in someine else shoes’ which I feel is a very different meaning of empathy.

@Theydontwantme yes my dh brain switches off. He can’t cope with my emotions, esp strong ones. Too overwhelming for him.

I think they don't understand, and can be very afraid of making inappropriate comments so switch off instead. One of many mechanisms going on, I think.

So they can unintentionally deny your reality because they don’t know what to do or say? If it doesn’t exist then they don’t have to acknowledge anything or acknowledge their own short comings. So my mums defensive behaviour to deny and steer away has just handed me all the weight of responsibility. Plus made me feel stupid for having emotions and needing people to talk to to regulate.

I feel like I’ve been denied a part of life I’ve needed to exist, just because she hasn’t needed it. I’ve tried to live in a world without emotional connection and people to talk to and people in general really.

Sadly I think this is correct. While they can learn to behave "better" under ideal conditions, they aren't choosing their behaviour and they really can't behave otherwise esprecially when under stress.

This is what I observe, anyway.

We moved house 4 years ago.. it blew my OH apart and he began to refer to "my house" when we had been joint owners for 44 years. He had a mental breakdown (i will never forget seeing him stand in Tesco and begin to panic over a choice of cheese) followed by 4 years of a succession of serious health problems. And he is triggered by medical situations and by being out of control.

All that ended on January 6th this year.

This week, he has suddenly been able to remember what he needs to do to make me feel valued and human. I can't trust it, it may disappear at any time, but I'm hanging onto it for grim death right now!

And when it disappears, as it inevitably will, I will remind myself that he doesn't choose to be how he is.

I'm so sorry TDWM, I hope you can find your soul mate somewhere.

This is my mum. This is helping me understand what has happened and why I feel like I’ve been failing at life being affected by things and needing support when in actual fact I’ve been “normal” I’ve just never been shown emotions and what to do with them or that it’s completely normal to not live life with logic.