*trigger warning* why do so many women have men they’ve just met around their children?

[FlowerPowerShower]

I was reading a disturbing article in the news. A woman was killed by a man she had been dating for 4 months, she was pregnant with his child and didn’t want to have an abortion (it seems this is the reason the man did it) in 4 months she had already introduced him to her children and one of her children was in the house at the time it happened. She was aware that this man had previously killed someone but still had him around her children and continued to date him. (He had also previously assaulted another pregnant ex and had been to prison for both crimes) neighbours said they regularly heard arguing from the property in the 4 months.

I find this story really sad but don’t understand why so many women have these kids of men around their children? This story isn’t a one off and I read so many posts online from women who have brought men into their kids lives that they’ve just met and make all kinds of excuses about why it’s acceptable.

That’s shocking but I’m not surprised unfortunately 😩

You might not do it but lots of women do, I’m on a few single parent groups as a single parent myself and it’s unbelievable how many women think it’s acceptable to have men they’ve just met around their children/round their house when kids are in bed etc

You keep saying this, but aren’t actually reflecting on any of the reasons that posters working in this field are giving you.

And yes, sometimes people put their own needs before their kids. That is sadly very common and isn’t an issue restricted to single mothers. By far the most common perpetrator of this casual selfishness is married men ime.

it really doesn’t appear that you want to know the answer to the question, but simply want a pat on the back for being too clever/principled and an all round great parent.

id be interested to hear why you think women do this…

thanks for sharing your perspective.

I think there’s a huge naivety about certain types of crime and criminal.

Abusers need to get longer sentences.

Selfishness, stupidity, desperation.

Ive just seen a post on another group of a woman who has 1 kid by 1 man and pregnant with another kid and no longer with that father either asking if any men will be interested in her now?! It’s desperation in most cases and anything for a man.

Its easy to judge if youve never been a single mother. God knows I did, but now im in that position I know how lonely it gets and have started to understand why so many single mams are so quick to bring their new boyfriend into their children's lives. Its because they've no significant child care. So your only option is to see your new boyfriend once a week or have him around the kids and see him all the time.

Personally I wouldn't do this and have decided not to date until my youngest is grown but thats me. Im fine by myself, alot of people are not. I do wish more mothers could put their children first but I dont judge so harshly anymore. Is it desperation to want to be loved? To not want to spend 18yrs sitting in front of the tv by yourself every night? To want a little bit of happiness outside of being a mother? Maybe. But i get it.

I am a single mum and have been for 10 years 🙂

You see it right here on MN - any suggestion that a woman shouldn't allow her boyfriend around her children is met with accusations of paranoia, hysteria, and man-hating. A lot of women underestimate how many men are abusive towards children. And society still pushes the idea that a woman can't be happy without a man.

Unfortunately in my job I saw the consequences of women allowing random men around their children.
While the baby was fighting for it's life on a ventilator we would see the mums in the car park secretly meeting up with the men who were the reason for their babies injuries in the first place.
these men were met and moved in within weeks, and mum would leave the baby with them to go to work.
It beggared belief but it happened too often.

I’m a single mum too.
Trust me I do understand the absolute disbelief that a woman could be so foolish.
But, if we put a deer in an enclosure with a game hunter, we wouldn’t blame the deer for not being quick enough to dodge the bullets would we?
Of course, she holds some blame for not removing him the very first time he was violent - she owed her children that, and she has paid with her life.
I see post after post on mumsnet of insidious domestic abuse, and this is a forum for typically ‘naice women’. We are no better equipped than less educated women when a man is throwing his weight around. When a woman posts here for support we don’t say ‘well you were a bit stupid for marrying him then’ and move on with our day feeling superior. We rally around offering advice and support and try to encourage her to be safe.

The systems put in place to protect vulnerable women have failed this poor lady and her children miserably.
Why was he not tagged and his location monitored?
If he had license conditions, why was he not recalled?
How on earth was he released in the first place?
Those are the questions that are important to have answered here.

I’m not excusing it, and it’s not something I would do. However I do get how it happens.

(I’ve been single since my divorce after DA many years ago as I wouldn’t want anyone around my kids. I’ve come to terms with the fact I am sacrificing my own potential happiness for my kids, but it’s hard. I’m lonely.)

I’d bet that a lot of these single mums are vulnerable and recovering from some kind of DA. Abusive men know who to target.

Also, lots of ‘dads’ disappear from their responsibilities and with lots of single mums having next to no free time and limited support networks, it’s possible that they feel the only way they can date and have a social life and some happiness/shared responsibilities is if they introduce boyfriends fairly soon. I’m not saying it’s right, it isn’t But it is also incredibly hard being a single mum with no social life or support network because your child’s father disappeared leaving you as the only parent.

There's a difference between introducing a normal boyfriend fairly soon (a bad idea, but there are reasons like you've described) and introducing a known violent man to your children. For the latter there is zero excuse.

In fact I think the 'traumatised by upbringing' excuse in general is overused. There are so many women who unfortunately had terrible childhoods and yet they are loving, protective mums who would never dream of exposing their children to an abusive partner.

Same with people who commit violent crimes or steal or whatever. So what if they've had a difficult upbringing? Lots of people have and yet magically manage to be decent people. If you're an abusive prick or letting your children be around an abusive prick then that's on you.

This wasn't a boiling frog scenario or anything. She knew he was violent from the start and still decided to date him.

It is overused, and it is stigmatising for people who don’t engage in destructive behaviours. People just broadly apply this stereotype without any nuance. It’s very unfair to just blanket statement in this way, and I would argue it’s actually a form of classism.

I completely agree. If you know someone is abusive, it is always a bad idea. But I doubt strong women in good mental places are doing this. And that was what I was referring to. Plus even the ‘normal boyfriend’ can be not who he seems. I was married for 10 years before the physical abuse started.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Yes, there are many insidious situations where the man starts out ok but then slowly ramps up the abuse. I can understand how it would be difficult (both emotionally and practically) to just up and leave. That's what I meant by boiling frog scenario.

What I judge harshly is when the red flags are waving from the start, you're being told by everyone from day one that it is a bad idea, you have no actual connection to the man and yet you still choose this virtual stranger over your children.

Yeah exactly. It literally states in the news article quote I copied and pasted, that she was a mum of two kids, and the fathers of both had died previously.

I agree. Just because you didn’t go to Pony club doesn’t signify a terrible upbringing.

and lots of people with chaotic upbringings become loving responsible parents.

I wonder if it’s because there is no neat answer? Someone upthread talked about a wide number of variables. I’ve seen people from affluent, middle class backgrounds get into similar situations.

Trauma, for which there are very few effective services.

Messages about who you are and what you deserve start from birth (or even earlier as we begin to understand pre-birth experiences). You grow up in an environment that devalues you, you aren’t anyone’s priority, you might be neglected or abused, or you might see a loved one being abused. As children we have very few psychological defences to trauma, children either dissociate, or find a way for it to make sense - because they can’t leave the situation. That process creates a deep seated sense of shame and blame - it’s their fault X happened (over and over again), and so they believe any relationship they are in will be abusive, because that’s their experience. So when it does happen, they expect it and in some ways feels safe to them, because they know how to deal with being abused.

I’ve decades of experience in working with domestic abuse, you just can’t underestimate how much of a head fuck it - for children and the adults they grow into. It takes way more than a bit of CBT/EMDR to recover, and to be able to feel safe in relationships never mind set boundaries for yourself and your kids.

Be very grateful if you’ve not had that experience and try not to judge something you can never really understand.

That would be me, I had a horrific childhood in some ways, however I was academic so school was a positive place for me, I had some amazing teachers who really invested in me. That allowed me to work when I left school, met a very stable man, got married. I also paid for private therapy for 8 years to recover from the impact of my childhood. It could have gone very differently - I was very vulnerable and was absolutely ripe for exploitation, I can see points in my life that were real crossroads and luckily I had enough of the right people in my life at the right time.

I don’t feel stigmatised by recognising that abuse creates vulnerability, and vulnerability all too often leads to more abuse. I feel incredibly lucky it’s not been me.

Wether you do or not though, it doesn’t change that the fact that sociologically stigmatising is what occurs - it’s a natural consequence of applying blanket statements without considering all the other components of any given situation.

Certain risk factors do create vulnerabilities, but that doesn’t tend to be how people consider it, it is viewed in absolutes by many people.

Whilst I no longer feel stigmatised now as an adult who has an education and healthy interpersonal relationships, I certainly have felt so in the past by the labels of ‘child in care’ and ‘care -leaver’ despite those negative stereotypes not aligning with who I was personally. That is kind of the point though, and we can apply the same logic to any disadvantaged group.

This goes beyond individuals; it’s about what it tells us about the ingrained almost throwaway comments which many people within society hold and what that says about people’s views about people who have had different lives to them.

From a sociological and discourse analysis perspective, it’s about how about how language shapes and perpetuates inequality.