WTF is this behaviour?

[SquirrelsAreNuts]

For background, DH and I have a combined income of about £150k but he earns way more than I do. I have a minimum wage term-time job because I do all the childcare for our DC and DSC. We also live in one of the most expensive parts of the SE. Wouldn't be my choice, but it's so we can be close to DH's DC (my DSC).

We're comfortable but not rolling in it. I mention all that just because what triggered this thread was money, but it's not really about money IYSWIM?

We've had next year's holiday reserved but not paid for since the summer. It was coming up to the time we have to confirm everything and start putting deposits down and booking flights, etc. DH has been fully up to speed on all these plans, the timings, the costs, everything. I've managed the admin but have kept him informed of all the details at each step. As far as I was concerned he had signed off on all of it. I don't know what more I could have done, which is why I'm baffled.

Last night DH and I sat down together and spent about an hour searching the best flights in terms of price and time and figured out the most cost effective way to do it was fly out to one airport on a one way ticket and fly back from a different airport on a one way ticket.

We booked the outbound flight together and then he lost interest and went to sit in the front room. So I carried on and booked the inbound flight on my own (but with his agreement, I thought).

Once it was done I went into the front room and told him I'd booked the flights back and he started freaking out. Saying that now we're committed to the holiday cost and he didn't realise it was going to be so much. How much was I going to pay towards it, etc, etc. I was floored. What did he think we'd just been doing? It was such a weird reaction from him I didn't know how to respond other than WTF.

He freaked out so much he insisted I cancelled the whole thing. So this morning I've wasted a load of time cancelling the flights and trying to get our money back. The kids are going to be so upset.

He sort of has form for this. In the past he's agreed to having work done on our house (which is a fixer upper). Has let me put in a load of time and effort contacting builders and getting quotes, etc, only to say no to everything at the last minute.

I feel utterly powerless in this relationship in terms of finances. I don't think he's being controlling as such, it's more his extreme anxiety at spending any money. But the net effect on me and the kids is the same. House and garden is crumbling around our ears and we never go anywhere.

For the first time ever in our marriage I am wondering what it would be like to leave him as this latest holiday reverse ferret feels like one too many. But the thought is terrifying. I'm sure if you asked him, he'd say I'm a wasteful spendthrift who just wants the high life. But to him, the 'highlife' is putting the heating on, or having the dishwasher on anything but Eco setting.

I haven't been able to stop crying this morning but I can't put my finger on why. It's not just the cancelled holiday. It's the weird behaviour - letting me do all that organising and spending an hour booking flights with me then completely changing his mind - I don't even know what to call it.

and have him go on a holiday he will not enjoy and likely ruin it ? likely her contribution is minimal so I do not think this is wise/

Trouble with that is that I started in the same (actually higher) income bracket, but with kids that changes.

Because again, he was full of reasons why his career should come first, and like an idiot (and knowing I would do fine, but he seemed to be struggling) - I kept putting him first.

These men (and again, I still don't know if it's actually intentional) are very good at skewing things to take advantage of the women who love and care for them

I have just seen your other post explaining that he was refusing the pay the balance on your card after finding out the total cost, leaving you with no other option but to cancel yourself or pay maximum interest on minimum monthly payments which you can’t afford.

OP, this man is a pig. He is shameful. What sort of man would put his wife in debt when he earns 7 X her salary. I think terms like “financially abusive” can be thrown around a bit too easily sometimes but your case is textbook example.

Do you ever spell things like this out to him? Or do you sweep it under the carpet?

Is he so pigheaded he can’t acknowledge his selfish and inconsiderate ways?

Did you argue back Op? I can’t imagine this nonsense being thrown at me and me not standing up for myself and telling him what for. I think it seems clear though as others have said that you are in a coercive and controlling relationship so you may not feel able to fight back. I don’t buy ‘poverty trauma’ or other such nonsense, he is stringing you along then cutting you off as a power play then making you feel like it is all your fault.

Please consider leaving.

Who said anything about him going, the miserable fuck can always stay at home

This sounds like anxiety to me in all honesty. Have you ever tried sort of talking him through it like getting someone who's afraid of heights across a wobbly footbridge?

"Yes, I know it's a large amount of money, yes, it's scary, but it's what we discussed, it will be ok, we can afford it, we want to do something nice for the kids, it will be fine..." all in a calm and unflappable voice?

My DD has severe anxiety and I spend a lot of time doing this sort of thing

So what happens when you take maternity leave or work part time post children?

That's when most abusers start showing their hands. As in the OPs case by he sounds of things. And it’s all too late then

He grew up really poor and has hoarding mentality when it comes to money in particular. It's incredibly draining.

Apologies, I haven't RTFT but there's the problem. Has he ever had, or would he consider, therapy to fix this mindset?

If the OP has a credit card with her name on it, but her husband is the main card account holder, he's responsible for paying the card bill. Only if it's a totally separate card account in her name is it her responsibility. It's not like a debit card on a joint account. The fact she earns so much less than him points to this being likely - having the credit limit to book flights for everyone using this card suggests her husband is the main card account holder.

If you met me you would know I don’t any crap from anyone. But I was ground down to practically dust by manipulative hateful ex.

A lot of what the OP is describing very familiar to me. It has nothing to do with what people are like.

It is the result of years and years of insidious manipulation. Most of which you don’t even recognize at the time. And the OPs emotionally abusive upbringing made her vulnerable to it.

But once you see it, as the OP maybe now is, there is no going back.

He is happy to pull a holiday his children are looking forward to, to assert control.

For me that would be game over

Well it suits him just fine doesn’t it?

It's my card in my name. He's nothing to do with it.

I agree, @SquirrelsAreNuts - this life - it's not a rehearsal and what is the point of "living" miserably. What is his hobby and what does he spend on it? Also how old is the child/children who you have care for? Irrelevant of the wage you earn you are I gather contributing financially as well as with your time with the children and also I would assume with cleaning and cooking the majority of the time. Are you sure he does not have any other hobbies or vices? He could be gambing online or spending money on pornsites. He may not be but surely if you have responsibility for his children - yours between you and any from his previous relationship, then you should have the right to know where the money is going. I think £150K is a lot of money and only you know how much the mortgage is and how much the everyday bills are but to think you cannot afford one family holiday just seems strange as from what you say you are not extravagant and also don't live on takeaways so where is the money going? I was brought up poor so always promised myself that I would never limit myself unnecessarily. Sometimes I save other times I might have a bit of a spree as there is one thing for sure I can't take it with me and no pockets in shrouds. If your DH is worried that if anything happened to him you would be left destitute if you overspend then you both need to discuss this properly as it just sounds a very controlling relationship. I have never been reliant on a man financially and always worked and contributed - in some cases I have been the one with a house and a steady job. Please you really need to have a talk about the future and what you are expecting and hoping for. Don't be a spendthrift but also don't be a tightwad and deprive yourself and the family of the good things in life. My Mam worked all her life - sometimes 2/3 jobs and my Dad worked but my mam handed her wages over to my Dad who took charge of all finances. She was never short of money but to me it was controlling as she never, ever seen his wageslips and he had some high paying jobs when he was alive. He died a month before State Retirement age of 64 although he had retired a couple of years before due to Chronic Emphysemia(some of the places he worked in as a young man were deadly on many men's lungs) but there was no payout - people just accepted this as a hazard of working in some places. There was no big life policies but as their small house was paid off years before, Mam still had her own SRP - she too died at 64, - a month before her 65th and before receiving her NHS works pension - it died with her. What was it all for?? Don't let that be you.

I didn't argue back in the moment because I was so utterly WTF, I was a bit stunned at the bait and switch as a PP put it.

But I'm not a shrinking violet. We have had humdinger rows before over similar situations and if I have to have one again, I will.

But he does spend frivolously - Amazon and supermarket lunches just on things that he considers to be important for him

i would seriously first off talk about how unhappy you are and how you can’t live in a world where all the sacrifice is on you becuase he does spend frivolously on himself

and legal advice

Isn’t this what’s known as “ gaslighting”??

My ex was great at this and it took me years to figure it out ! I thought I was in the wrong all the time.

Although you absolutely need to have a big conversation with him about all of this (and I think he needs to go to therapy…), when making decisions like this could you create a ‘contract’? Literallly document all the decisions and costs and get him to sign it? As it sounds like he only freaks out when you press ‘pay’.

So, you work a minimum wage job and have no control over family money.

He earns a very good salary but wastes money on his hobbies and fritters insane amounts away on bits and bobs from Amazon.

He stashed a significant inheritance in a current account, earning zero interest.

He does not do any financial planning or investing for the long term future.

I expect there are no ISAs or other financially savvy investments.

You probably have no significant pension and are likely to be poor in your old age.

And that’s before we get to the cruel and controlling behaviour with regard to home maintenance and holidays.

This is your life, @SquirrelsAreNuts - and it will stay that way unless YOU do something. However, the only thing you can change is what YOU do - because HE WILL NOT CHANGE. Talk to him by all means, try and discuss EVERYTHING (not just the holiday!) rationally, because I can sense that you are not ready yet to pull the plug.

But ultimately this is what you need to do unless you are prepared to continue living like this. Here are some useful resources - do your research, collect all financial documentation, and see a competent family solicitor.

• Wikivorce
• Divorce for Dummies
• family solicitor websites

The underlying problem is that you don’t have equal access to the marital assets. Not cancelling the holiday would not have been such as issue if you could simply have transferred savings to pay the CC off.
I also would have an almighty row about this shit show and either equal access to the marital assets (including his income) are sorted - even if you discuss and agree every penny before it is spent - or I would tell him I need to go back to work as ‘I don’t have access to money and I’m not prepared to live under financial abuse’. I’d stop paying for anything at all from my income ’I need to save it as I don’t have access otherwise to money in case of an emergency’. I’d also state that once I found a job, I’d be happy to pay 50% towards costs of running the home and he would need to pick up 50% of home responsibilities. I’d ask him to let me know which 50% of the school drop offs /pick ups he wants to be responsible for to help with my planning.

Oh and I forgot to add. I’d also state step children are 100% his responsibility starting immediately and you be providing no further child care at all on that front

Do NOT continue to give up your earning power for a man like this.

This is very, very good advice. Prioritise looking for a new job/undergoing training; it might not be easy but you sound like a smart person and you WILL be able to do it.

You mustn't entrust your financial future to him

💐

He is a miser, and he can’t change unless he wants to, which he doesn’t.

He needs therapy, you need to decide if you can live with this disorder.

is he generally rubbish at communication?

Yes

If you’re confused that’s a massive sign it’s abuse.