A messy wife and children

[Stu01]

Hello,

This is not a new problem. Every solution I’ve tried has failed and left me feeling more and more powerless.

So to the context - my wife and I are full time professionals who do the exact same job. Our hours are mostly identical. She does an extra half hour or so of work more at home in the evenings than I.

We’ve been together for all of her adult life and most of mine. This is not a new problem.

My wife loves to clean - she genuinely gets a buzz out of it (no idea why) but doesn’t do it- and she is very good at remembering birthdays and clubs and knowing day to day things. She is an excellent mother - phenomenal. We have two children, 10 and 7, and the youngest is a challenge. I find myself ignored and derided by my youngest and my choice is to walk away because otherwise I shall be furious.

My wife has been brought up by two loving parents who did everything for her. Her mother did wish me luck when we moved in together. Ever since I have known her, her life has been filled with clutter and love.

In contrast, I have scraped myself out of several challenging home lives and have lived in pressurised, immaculate homes. I was taught from a young age to clean, tidy, iron and take responsibility for myself. I didn’t lack in love, but I knew my mess should be dealt with.

Our houses have always been full of work and possessions. As the children came into our lives, we declutterred and she stayed at home to cook, clean and raise our children. Here is where it began.

For ten years now, our houses have deteriorated into a constant day to day clutter-fest. Children’s toys, shoes, paperwork, washing, clothes, bags, books and whatever else.

I have handled the laundry, half the ironing, cooking and most of the day to day clean up since the children started school. But as time goes by I’ve seen that she and the children don’t really have the tidiness of the house as a priority. I on the other hand find it hard to manage mentally and practically in a messy and disorganised house.

Laundry I have done can be left unmoved for a week until I snap. Ironing I have done is discarded on the floor and crumpled within days. Toys yearned for are trodden and broken. Meanwhile, the TV is on non-stop, the noise grows and I oscillate in a corner.

I’ve raised my feelings, suggested things and even done everything in a passive aggressive fury. No change. I’ve let the carpets be covered and trampled all over it. No change. I’ve bagged it all up and threatened to throw it away. No change. I’ve bagged some up and actually thrown it away. No change. My current approach is to only pick up whatever I have interacted with and deal with my own washing (excepting school uniform). My wife likes it when I iron her clothes - they are quietly languishing.

Resentment builds, I retreat into myself and find the only clear space to sit down and read. But I can’t concentrate. Our communication has deteriorated and she feels lonely.

She’s lonely mostly in the weekday mornings because I get on and organise myself. She on the other hand cannot find the children’s uniforms (we take responsibility for ironing and storing half each in a designated place) or water bottles (we have about 30), can’t decide what shoes to where (48 pairs), makes their breakfast (both children can do it themselves as we’ve taught them), does her hair and make up, and personally dresses our 7 year old (who refuses to do so) who miraculously can do it themselves on weekends. I just can’t bear to berate or dictate to them anymore - I’m just so fed up and isolated.

So I’m back from the gym at 6.45. She’s dressed by then. I eat breakfast, shower and change, and then I wash up and tidy up and wait. If people can’t find things, I tell them where I saw them last (on the floor). If people aren’t doing anything, I point out what is needed. I teach 10-11 year olds and know what they are capable of. The house descends into a fury of lateness and panic - I am still and seething and my children are dawdling around barefoot.

I fear I am being petty and pedantic. I fear we are babying the children. I fear I am unfeeling and not setting them a good example. I fear my expectations are too great and hers too low. I fear I am not being inclusive. I fear for my marriage. I fear for my sanity.

What do I do next?

When it’s the wife - practical suggestions when it’s the husband - knob head , mummy’s boy , needs to step up.

Running a home is not rocket science and the idea of having to ‘outsource’ this out of your hard earned cash from the family pot when both are not in agreement over it ,
for someone to come and organise or ‘declutter’ you is bonkers. As I understand it decluttering is bagging up shit you don’t need for the tip or charity shops on a Sunday when not at work no?

A lazy DH is always vilified as needing to step the fuck up and so they should.
Any parent allowing the kids to berate their partner is shocking

Why are you going to the gym in the morning?
send your wife out at that time. She can either start work early or go to the gym.

you get the kids off to school.

see how it works.

and yes. It does sound like a ND household. All of you.

you need
a cleaner.
less shit!!!!
1 water bottle per person and a single spare are all you need. Throw out the other million.

and yes. Marriage counselling.

I can't work out from your post what the split of responsibilities in your house is. So you both work full time, I think? You mention her staying home, but I'm assuming that was when the kids were younger.

So your work hours are broadly similar?
How much parenting do you both do? Who collects from school? Who does clubs? Who supervises homework? Who helps your DC pack their school bags, listens to them read etc.? Who buys presents and takes the kids to parties?
And then there's the chores. Your post suggests a fairly even split of chores in theory, with you doing more day-to-day tidying and your wife not doing her "share" to your standards. Is that correct?

My immediate reaction to what you've written is this - you guys are busy. Both working full-time and young kids. Something's going to give. It does sound like your wife has ADHD and potentially your DC too, at least the younger one. I also have it, and it makes getting stuff done harder, especially getting started and keeping up with routines.

If she's doing a full-time job + being a present and active parent (while, forgive me, it sounds like you've zoned out a bit on the parenting front) + doing some chores AND she has ADHD, then she probably doesn't have capacity to get to grips with the disaster that your house has slowly become. She's at capacity and at risk of burnout already. She probably has very little left to give.

What do you do when you're overwhelmed, if you're sensible? You prioritise. And your wife may have prioritised her job and the kids over having a clean house. Would you prefer that she prioritized the house and ignored the kids? What would you say if she said she was going to cancel all their extracurricular activities to spend the time cleaning instead? Or didn't bother with homework or talking to them?

That's not to say that what you feel is unimportant, but you need to consider what is most important to you in the grand scheme of things. You can implement changes that will make a difference to your routine, but you need to do it in a way that works for both you and your wife, and for your kids, or you'll put a lot of effort into making changes and see no results. As a starting point, I suggest that both you and your wife listen to a few podcasts or watch some videos on YouTube about organising with ADHD to get some ideas. And then see if you can change things together one little step at a time. But it really is a trial and error process. You and she will fail and sometimes you won't have your shit together. Let go of the blame, let go of the shame, accept the kids will be late for school sometimes and think about how you can organise for going forward in a way that works better.

Oh, and your kids aren't going to be enthusiastic about chores and tidying up unless you get them on board and make a game of it. Put on a song. Get them both handheld vacuums. Set them a challenge to see who can put 10 things back in place the quickest. Get them to jump on the recycling to flatten it. Get them mop slippers to dust the kitchen floor. And write their chores on the fridge or the window so you can cross them off as they do them and high five them. Every time you walk into the house after they've done something, say "See, isn't it nice that things are a bit tidier. You guys are great. And tomorrow we'll get things a little more tidier". The problem with ADHD is that we need to be "on a roll" to make things happen. You can help to create that roll for your family and, if you do, more shit will happen.

Running a home is not rocket science

Maybe not for you. But some of us don't find it easy. I have a doctorate and am not daft by any means, but I really struggled to keep on top of running a house, a full time job and 2 DC.

Also don’t describe your wife and children as messy.
it’s your house.
your house is a mess.

and you and your wife are not communicating or working well together.

if you go to the gym instead of being there for the morning rush, or sit back with a book when the kids need to be fed , do homework and get to bed, then your wife might as well struggle as a single mother rather than one allegedly married.

to conclude - either work out a way to work better together or ship out .

If what you say is true, and we have only your account, I simply couldn’t live like this. A continual messy cluttered house is not a relaxing enjoyable place to be.

I wonder if ADHD is a component here, your wife whilst you say has many wonderful qualities, seems to struggle with structure and certain disciplines.
Does her thinking seem scattered at times, is she easily distracted?

How you go forward I don’t know, but the present state of things are already a sizeable irritation. You and your wife need to talk and seriously, soon.

I couldn’t live like this.

48 pair of shoes? 30 water bottles?

I’m messy and chaotic and the only answer is to have less stuff. Way less stuff than normal people have. It’s honestly the only way that messy people can cope. A cleaner isn’t going to help, she needs to hire a professional declutterer to work through and chuck out a load of stuff.

I’d also threaten divorce so she takes you seriously and understands the impact it’s having on you.

Do you have a loft where you can rotate toys for the children.Can you keep the kids things in their rooms in an organised way?
Setting 10 minute timers where all family members tidy up several times a day could work.

Your wife sounds just like me and I'm currently overhauling/ decluttering each room in my too large family home.The soup story is really familiar to me and makes me laugh.
I'm struck by how you complain that clothes you iron aren't put away but I'm puzzled that you don't put them away yourself.I'm assuming that I have ADHD but I'd really struggle with completing someone else's tasks.
Life sounds so busy and you seem to be on the periphery of a very busy chaotic household watching on in horror.Simple things like always packing the dishwasher at night, having a clothes bank bag and charity shop bag always sitting ready to fill has really helped me but I'm never going to have a perfectly organised home.
Perhaps you need to focus on small wins, life is messy and you're never going to have a perfect home.

I've just remembered some friends both lovely exceptionally clever. They had three children in 18 months. Twins+1. When the mess got too much they hired a skip. Bought many bin bags. Every room was gone through ruthlessly. Outgrown clothes, outgrown toys. All went in the skip which you can keep as long as you need. Paid the cleaner extra time to deep clean and carpet cleaner for every room. Then the garden toys, shed, etc. finally downstairs, kitchen, utility. Sitting room Etc. again all deep cleaned. It looked fabulous.

Now they do it on a smaller scale more often and visit the tip .

I'd be interested to know what a normal weekday morning looks like for both of you. Who gets the kids up, makes sure they're dressed and have had breakfast, checks they have everything they need and gets them out the door and off to school?

Weekday mornings are the biggest stress points in most people's family lives imo. Everyone needs to pull their weight.

How do you divide weekday mornings?

My home is a bit like this it can be annoying not being able to find things and sometimes I amazon for things like tweezers. I am naturally messy and then I have a two year old who moves everything and I need to look after him while doing things around the house without screens so it never ever ever looks tidy or finished, I can’t stand to spend my few hours off ever othwr weekend sorting things out I need to be out of the house seeing people as it’s my only chance.
we actually get on fine and my son is thriving and happy. If I had a man around telling me off and complaining at me I should be tidying up for him though I would be so stressed.
I think you need at least one calm clear room.
amd I think you need to teach your kids some systems - what to do when (eg folding and putting away clean laundry) and make a system for remembering to do it and reward them when they do (as this I think your wife would struggle to do but you sound more organize) parent them

I think also a big basket or bin method like a laundry basket size that things can get put away in to reduce the visual clutter

putting things into storage to see if any of it is missed?

lots of women have the ‘job’ allocated to them of being the inventory keeper of kids toys and clothes and Knick knacks etc. if she’s not taking this on to the standard you want, you will just need to do it yourself.

Ps if you split and had the kids true 5050 / one week off and on, do you truly think you’d be able to do the standard of nurture and parenting that your wife does while simultaneously keeping a decluttered tidy clean home?

He goes tot he gym!

I haven’t read the full thread and just wanted to sympathise with you.

Personally I can’t function in mess and chaos. I actually can’t stand it.

Has your DW got to a point where she’s totally overwhelmed by it all?

Sounds like a massive clear out is needed to reset.

I hope it works out for you 💐

I would talk to her about it and set time aside together when the kids are at school for a massive declutter. She needs your help to get systems in place. Perhaps let her go to the gym in the morning whilst you talk the kids.

Book a Friday off work. Tidy everything. Arrange a babysitter, go on a date and reconnect.
Once the house is organised ask your wife to do a specific list of things each day, message it to her so she can easily see it. Don't make it too much at once, she sounds equivalent to most men so it's lucky you're tidy to counteract it.

If my DH sent me a list of things to do each day, I know where I'd put it to tidy things up!

Well, therein probably lies a bit of the problem. I can't imagine having the time for the gym and a shower every morning, yet my kids being late for school and not having the stuff they need.

Throw away inessential toys clothes shoes and other stuff. Stop ironing. Get a cleaner.

This may be an oversimplification of your problem (forgive me if it is) but if your wife is just naturally not a tidier/organizer, and you yearn for a tidy organized home, can you not take on the entire responsibility for these tasks? It sounds like she is amazing in other ways. This is just not her thing so why make it into a battleground?

Even if she doesn't have a diagnosis you need an ADHD organisation book.
The 30 water bottles is part of the problem.
You need as much open shelving as possible so you can actually see what you own, with labelled boxes.
Everything in the house needs a place to live
Avoid deep bins of toys or clothes that need dumping out to find anything
In the kitchen don't stack different things together- only dinner plates, only cereal bowls etc - have a specific basket for water bottles that's easily accessible
The shoes - 44 of those pairs need to go or go in the loft
Can you have an area by the door with hooks with everyone's name? One coat there each, school bags etc
After ironing where do you put the clothes? Is it possible to have a rail downstairs in a utility etc for clean?
Living room needs to be reset at the end of every day

What you've said about the volume of belongings makes me think this is just an overwhelming task to her, not as simple as tidying

My only practical suggestion is that I’m also responsible for laundry in my home and I find it helpful to put everything back in it’s place straight away.

I often see people posting about clean clothes left folded on beds then being strewn about by children or piles of ironing on the stairs being stepped over by the DH and wonder why the clean / ironed clothes aren’t just put straight into wardrobes and drawers rather than being left out for other people to deal with when they are running on their own schedules etc.

I think that probably your children are not as mature as you think they should be. Partly that’s because we remember the chores we did do ourselves as children, whereas much of the work our parents did was invisible to us.

I would suggest:

• put the ironing away yourself.
• pack up the excess shoes and water bottles into boxes in your loft or whatever, and pull the next ones out when the first ones are lost.
• don’t sit around and wait in the mornings! Be proactive.
• schoolbags packed and next to the front door before bedtime.
• school clothes laid out before bedtime. You can do both these tasks. Focus on reducing the conflict, not on having them meet your standards.
• on the weekend, take each kid in turn for 5 mins. “Pick up those shoes and put them in the bottom of your cupboard” is an understandable, specific, two-step task. A two-step sequence is enough at this age. “Tidy your room” is overwhelming. Kids at school behave very differently for a range of reasons. Praise for every task completed. Family fun as soon as 5 mins is over.
• No more rages! Your wife is a valid, full human with a different attitude from yours. You don’t have any right to try to frighten her into compliance.