A messy wife and children

[Stu01]

Hello,

This is not a new problem. Every solution I’ve tried has failed and left me feeling more and more powerless.

So to the context - my wife and I are full time professionals who do the exact same job. Our hours are mostly identical. She does an extra half hour or so of work more at home in the evenings than I.

We’ve been together for all of her adult life and most of mine. This is not a new problem.

My wife loves to clean - she genuinely gets a buzz out of it (no idea why) but doesn’t do it- and she is very good at remembering birthdays and clubs and knowing day to day things. She is an excellent mother - phenomenal. We have two children, 10 and 7, and the youngest is a challenge. I find myself ignored and derided by my youngest and my choice is to walk away because otherwise I shall be furious.

My wife has been brought up by two loving parents who did everything for her. Her mother did wish me luck when we moved in together. Ever since I have known her, her life has been filled with clutter and love.

In contrast, I have scraped myself out of several challenging home lives and have lived in pressurised, immaculate homes. I was taught from a young age to clean, tidy, iron and take responsibility for myself. I didn’t lack in love, but I knew my mess should be dealt with.

Our houses have always been full of work and possessions. As the children came into our lives, we declutterred and she stayed at home to cook, clean and raise our children. Here is where it began.

For ten years now, our houses have deteriorated into a constant day to day clutter-fest. Children’s toys, shoes, paperwork, washing, clothes, bags, books and whatever else.

I have handled the laundry, half the ironing, cooking and most of the day to day clean up since the children started school. But as time goes by I’ve seen that she and the children don’t really have the tidiness of the house as a priority. I on the other hand find it hard to manage mentally and practically in a messy and disorganised house.

Laundry I have done can be left unmoved for a week until I snap. Ironing I have done is discarded on the floor and crumpled within days. Toys yearned for are trodden and broken. Meanwhile, the TV is on non-stop, the noise grows and I oscillate in a corner.

I’ve raised my feelings, suggested things and even done everything in a passive aggressive fury. No change. I’ve let the carpets be covered and trampled all over it. No change. I’ve bagged it all up and threatened to throw it away. No change. I’ve bagged some up and actually thrown it away. No change. My current approach is to only pick up whatever I have interacted with and deal with my own washing (excepting school uniform). My wife likes it when I iron her clothes - they are quietly languishing.

Resentment builds, I retreat into myself and find the only clear space to sit down and read. But I can’t concentrate. Our communication has deteriorated and she feels lonely.

She’s lonely mostly in the weekday mornings because I get on and organise myself. She on the other hand cannot find the children’s uniforms (we take responsibility for ironing and storing half each in a designated place) or water bottles (we have about 30), can’t decide what shoes to where (48 pairs), makes their breakfast (both children can do it themselves as we’ve taught them), does her hair and make up, and personally dresses our 7 year old (who refuses to do so) who miraculously can do it themselves on weekends. I just can’t bear to berate or dictate to them anymore - I’m just so fed up and isolated.

So I’m back from the gym at 6.45. She’s dressed by then. I eat breakfast, shower and change, and then I wash up and tidy up and wait. If people can’t find things, I tell them where I saw them last (on the floor). If people aren’t doing anything, I point out what is needed. I teach 10-11 year olds and know what they are capable of. The house descends into a fury of lateness and panic - I am still and seething and my children are dawdling around barefoot.

I fear I am being petty and pedantic. I fear we are babying the children. I fear I am unfeeling and not setting them a good example. I fear my expectations are too great and hers too low. I fear I am not being inclusive. I fear for my marriage. I fear for my sanity.

What do I do next?

We see this time and time again on threads but it’s usually the woman in your situation, and they rarely pull back from managing the house just because no one else does. The kids absolutely should be taking on more responsibility for keeping their things organised and tidy, which they need to be consistently taught to do.

A lot of people jump to divorce, and that’s probably why the rate is like 50%. A serious conversation is needed with your wife but you also need to work with what you’ve got to an extent. She’ll never be as on top of it as you, but you could set aside 20 minutes as a couple each evening to work on getting the house in order together. Then at least you’re facing it as a team and it’s manageable

The difficulty and I might cite my ex wife as an example is that she needs to understand that this is something she needs to address.

This of course is also something women often complain about 'he doesnt listen to me'

My ex was certainly taken by surprise when I left despite many many things that might have suggested that all was not well

I just couldn't bear the clutter and noise - it would drive me mad. You have my sympathy.

I feel for you tbh, and I’m the messy one in our relationship. I feel bad for what I used to put my late husband through; I’ve got better. Tbh it does sound as if there is a bit of ganging up on you going on. Stamping on stuff you have ironed is horrible.

I was surprised to find ds got tidier when we had a cleaner. How often have you got someone at the moment? Could it be weekly, twice a week? I know it’s expensive but boy it would be cheaper than divorce. But I’m worried there was no change when you threw some stuff out. That’s usually the nuclear option suggested on here.

It sounds more as if your wife is pushing back and deliberately making mess; as if she has made being messy part of her identity or passive aggressive action against you. It’s also very concerning that your youngest appears to be reacting to the stress in your relationship?

More cost, but you do need to find a way to stop the conflict between you and some couples therapy might help. This part of family life isn’t easy but it should be more fun than this. Do you think there was some major change along the way?

@Stu01 Hiya! I can sympathise too. I found the only way to relieve yourself of all the mess and clutter, is to get rid of 'stuff.' 26 water bottles can go for a start. what else gets opened and left and not used? Chuck it. Games, puzzles, broken toys. Chuck it. Clothes that don't fit. Chuck it.
Chuck it
Chuck it
Chuck it

Soon you wont have stuff to fall over on or get angry about - get the kids tp help as Christmas is coming up. Tell them they cant have new stuff if they cant chuck old stuff.

Just. Do. It

And stop ironing stuff

Is there room in the house for you to have a study/ peaceful spot where no one else enters?
Mornings seem to be the biggest problem. Could you get a pop up wardrobe hanger thing from Amazon and sort all uniforms/ sports gear etc on Sunday night and teach them to lift off it each morning. Shoes and water bottles underneath.
Everything into laundry for weekend.
As you are a teacher read up more on ADHD and see if there any tips as no doubt your wife has it. Understanding that may help. The soup was part of that: all or nothing!
Get rid of loads of stuff. Make it a game with the kids at midterm to pack up stuff for the charity shop and plan to live a bit simpler.
My dh is extremely messy so you have my sympathy. But having my own peaceful spots throughout the house keeps me sane and now the kids are grown there is less to sort. But his ADHD means there is never a dull moment so that has kept me going.

@LillyPJ What would you advise the OP to do about it?

The cleaner fixed my ADHD husband. He panics when she's coming and tidies up his mess. Doesn't seem to work for the OP though.

I wish everyone luck who lives with this.

Jesus i don't blame you... i cant imagine anyone wants to live like this.
And it must get old with you always being the bad guy / monster / fun sponge.

Its bad for you, her and the kids....and you get entrenched in bad dynamics / unhealthy scripts.

If you have the money in order:

• professional declutterer (or take a weeks annual leave and you do it). Involve the kids Gameify it.
• introduce systems - gameify it for the kids
• marriage counselling
• reduce the kids clubs increase their down time

As a perfectionist, bin off ideal and get comfortable woth workable (btw what you have now is not workable imo), but also where you care / shes cant/wont just do it yourself / have a deal with the kids where they help and then farm put other tasks shes good at

So I’m the other way round and what I have done is fully taken over. I have decluttered the whole house. We now don’t have much in. Everywhere has a place and yes my family just drop everything and I’m the one who moves it. It doesn’t take long - 10 mins max and everything’s where it should be. It’s really less is more. We have 2 water bottles , 1 each. Now I’ve taken over and organised the house how I want it and decluttered it’s so much easier. I do spend a good few hours a day on it tidying , making beds etc but it’s worth it.

I would agree with this. I feel like my DP could say this about me (and I am actually a really tidy and organised person but with working full-time, gym and DC it gets a bit much). I think you need to take full responsibility for a task - so laundry includes putting it away (I would skip ironing). Declutter massively. I can't really tell if your house is an utter disaster (one friend's house is so messy and I definitely couldn't like that) or if it is just hectic with busy family life. I think (though maybe I baby my children) that you are expecting quite a lot of them and for them to run their lives they way you would. What does your wife say when you have a serious discussion about the issue in general?

This was my thought too.

THIS!

With bells on.

Do you want to be right or kind? If you choose 'right' you'll end up divorced. Start considering that your wife may be neurodivergent and may not be able to deal with the house.

Do you want to make a difference or do you want to keep score? If you choose keeping score, you'll end up divorced. Start picking up the slack with good humour, and stop keeping score on whatever unworkable 50/50 arrangement you had. It isn't working. It makes no sense for laundry to be done in stages by two people.

You are the author of your own fate here. You are the only person you can hope to change.

Before you start making any demands on others, get therapy and start examining your own family of origin and the impact your upbringing had on you.

If you think the kids are in too many clubs and activities, sit down and see if you and your wife can agree on dropping some.

Another vote for cleaner. Get some better storage and a cleaner. Look at how much they cost and have a trial.

She may be converted/inspired to keep it up.

You are a germophobe

I simply could not share a house with anyone who did not value tidiness and organisation and household routine /systems -as it were -around getting everything sorted for food/ washing/ school etc. Would send me do-lally especially with six kids and a full time job (now all adults but back then when little )
I could live with a bit of dust and a lick and a promise round the bathroom and not moving the sofa too Hoover - but mess and disorder would have tipped me over the edge.

I see it in my DSD house and I think it hampers the kids a lot. Clutter, lateness and panic about finding shit all the time

stressful to watch

theres probably a compromise somewhere in the middle. In your shoes I’d get a decluttering professional in to help declutter and arrange storage, working their way through the whole house.. I’d have a weekly cleaner. Establish a basic routine, dirty clothes in their own personal laundry bin, setting the table each night.

If the OP’s DP was a bloke people would be calling him a lazy twat who needs to get his shit together and stop allowing the children to berate her.

Of course a 10 and 7 year old don't prioritise a tidy home.
Instead of going to the gym then watching chaos unfold why don't you help get the children ready for school?
My DH and children are messy but my house isn't full of clutter or in chaos. If you're working the same (well you say you do even less) hours as your wife you are always there when the DC are around so you could be tidying with them instead of retreating into your book. You could have been setting the standard of what is expected but it sounds like you just sit back and watch your wife struggle to manage the DC.

It sounds like you are entrenched in your set ways and you need, as a couple, to learn the art of compromise. It really does sound like your wife has ADHD traits and it's possible you have some autistic ones. The two often do end up together, which you'd never think, but it happens! I say traits, because diagnosis by Internet forum isn't possible. But I can definitely hear the struggle of very different nervous systems and needs trying to coexist!

Are you being overly perfectionist? Probably a bit. It is possible to improve things, as it sounds awfully stressful as is. But you may need to accept that the kind of standards you want may not be realistic.

Is she overdoing things for and babying the kids? Probably a bit. But sometimes, particularly when you have a ND kid, you have to give more structure, otherwise the morning routine just doesn't happen if you wait for their executive functioning to kick in.

Your wife sounds overwhelmed, hence the losing things, buying duplicates, and probably being overwhelmed by, but unable to sort the clutter. If she is anxious about getting rid of things, boxing up some of the duplicates and putting them in the loft/garage/basement/spare room might help as they will still be accessible if she runs out of water bottles! Gradually, maybe they will be forgotten about.

I agree with the suggestion of a cleaner. We have an entirely ND household. I'm AuDHD and hate clutter but struggle with the executive functioning of housework and keeping order on top of a stressful job. Even though it upsets me to have a messy house, I can't always prevent it, especially with DS2 whose ADHD is very dominant. Pre kids, I could manage, but once we had 2 DC and I was back at work full time, it was impossible. The house was chaos. It took me having an epic meltdown for DH to realise I couldn't cope and that paying for more help was the only answer.

Oh and fuck ironing except for special occasions!

Relationship counselling, family therapy or relationship coaching with someone who understands neurodivergence may be useful if you can't find common ground.

@Mondaytuesdayhappydays Probably! But I think that the practical suggestions ppl are offering are most useful to the OP.

The initial posts saying ”divorce” were daft given that he clearly states that he adores his wife (except for the messiness). You can love someone and dislike one thing about them.

@BruFord I'd advise OP to read the other comments. I think there's been a range of advice and some of it would be useful to OP. I realized when I wrote my comment that I wasn't being helpful but I just wanted to sympathize. My brother was in a similar situation and in the end he had to leave, but OP has young children and that makes it very hard.

You should leave so she can live in peace with the kids xx

I love orderliness, structure and routine @Stu01 but when my head is a mess, I can’t function and if you want to know what’s going on in my head, have a look at my surroundings- could neurodivergence/ depression be at play with your wife as it has been for me?

Agree completely x