A messy wife and children

[Stu01]

Hello,

This is not a new problem. Every solution I’ve tried has failed and left me feeling more and more powerless.

So to the context - my wife and I are full time professionals who do the exact same job. Our hours are mostly identical. She does an extra half hour or so of work more at home in the evenings than I.

We’ve been together for all of her adult life and most of mine. This is not a new problem.

My wife loves to clean - she genuinely gets a buzz out of it (no idea why) but doesn’t do it- and she is very good at remembering birthdays and clubs and knowing day to day things. She is an excellent mother - phenomenal. We have two children, 10 and 7, and the youngest is a challenge. I find myself ignored and derided by my youngest and my choice is to walk away because otherwise I shall be furious.

My wife has been brought up by two loving parents who did everything for her. Her mother did wish me luck when we moved in together. Ever since I have known her, her life has been filled with clutter and love.

In contrast, I have scraped myself out of several challenging home lives and have lived in pressurised, immaculate homes. I was taught from a young age to clean, tidy, iron and take responsibility for myself. I didn’t lack in love, but I knew my mess should be dealt with.

Our houses have always been full of work and possessions. As the children came into our lives, we declutterred and she stayed at home to cook, clean and raise our children. Here is where it began.

For ten years now, our houses have deteriorated into a constant day to day clutter-fest. Children’s toys, shoes, paperwork, washing, clothes, bags, books and whatever else.

I have handled the laundry, half the ironing, cooking and most of the day to day clean up since the children started school. But as time goes by I’ve seen that she and the children don’t really have the tidiness of the house as a priority. I on the other hand find it hard to manage mentally and practically in a messy and disorganised house.

Laundry I have done can be left unmoved for a week until I snap. Ironing I have done is discarded on the floor and crumpled within days. Toys yearned for are trodden and broken. Meanwhile, the TV is on non-stop, the noise grows and I oscillate in a corner.

I’ve raised my feelings, suggested things and even done everything in a passive aggressive fury. No change. I’ve let the carpets be covered and trampled all over it. No change. I’ve bagged it all up and threatened to throw it away. No change. I’ve bagged some up and actually thrown it away. No change. My current approach is to only pick up whatever I have interacted with and deal with my own washing (excepting school uniform). My wife likes it when I iron her clothes - they are quietly languishing.

Resentment builds, I retreat into myself and find the only clear space to sit down and read. But I can’t concentrate. Our communication has deteriorated and she feels lonely.

She’s lonely mostly in the weekday mornings because I get on and organise myself. She on the other hand cannot find the children’s uniforms (we take responsibility for ironing and storing half each in a designated place) or water bottles (we have about 30), can’t decide what shoes to where (48 pairs), makes their breakfast (both children can do it themselves as we’ve taught them), does her hair and make up, and personally dresses our 7 year old (who refuses to do so) who miraculously can do it themselves on weekends. I just can’t bear to berate or dictate to them anymore - I’m just so fed up and isolated.

So I’m back from the gym at 6.45. She’s dressed by then. I eat breakfast, shower and change, and then I wash up and tidy up and wait. If people can’t find things, I tell them where I saw them last (on the floor). If people aren’t doing anything, I point out what is needed. I teach 10-11 year olds and know what they are capable of. The house descends into a fury of lateness and panic - I am still and seething and my children are dawdling around barefoot.

I fear I am being petty and pedantic. I fear we are babying the children. I fear I am unfeeling and not setting them a good example. I fear my expectations are too great and hers too low. I fear I am not being inclusive. I fear for my marriage. I fear for my sanity.

What do I do next?

My Dh makes ‘piles’

So little piles of crap. We’ve come to an agreement that he can have his piles of shit as long as they are hidden down the sides of sofas or chairs.

I feel twitchy when l sit next to them so try and avoid this. If the start creeping out which they do l shove them all back again. He takes action when they get out of control.

He has the garage and a room for his shit. I don’t ever go in if possible.

Yep, I call his clutter spaces his crap piles 😁

If you have tried and can’t keep it tidy and organised alone, and she is taking on the emotional labour with the children and doesn’t have the will/skills/care to tidy and organise then just outsource it. The kids are old enough now that the way you are is the way you are, this isn’t young kids chaos. You just have mismatched skills and expectations. Pay someone to come and sort it out then a cleaner to keep on top of it.

I call them piles o shite😁

Put my DD in the car to go to nursery in her PJs once. She got the message. Didn't happen again.

Good move @Sharptonguedwoman!

Sounds like normal family life to me 😂

@Stu01 read up about ADHD.( your wife sounds like she has it)
Then decide how you are going to go forward. You can talk till the cows come home but with such a mind, if no understanding on both sides, resentment will devour you.
Remember that ADHH is a disability. Still, it does not absolve you of being responsible for your actions.

I couldn’t imagine living in that utter chaos. Stuff all over the floor and not knowing where things are? My home is run by me to military precision. It’s a preference. No one suffers.

It doesn't sound great but it's hard to tell whether there is a genuine problem with your wife's messiness or you just have unreasonable standards because of your background. Is it genuinely cluttered or is it just a 'normal' family hone.

A house with two young children is often quite cluttered. I have two a little younger and staying on top of the mess is a massive daily chore and never stays tidy for long so I can appreciate the attitude of just leaving it sometimes or even reducing standards.

It also sounds like you have your own issues. Your youngest makes you so furious you have to walk away, presumably leaving your wife to deal with it. You also swan off to the gym most/every? Morning presumably leaving your wife to do the majority of the morning prep? My two are relatively easy and I frequently end up getting cross and impatient with them both because they are still faffing after being told to put their shoes on three times. This is (at least to some extent) normal life with children.

So this is a question to ask yourself. Is the house really messy? Where would it sit in the hoarding scale (Google this for example images)

Secondly, is your work load really fair? Your gym trips and anger issues make me wary of wholly blaming the wife for your issues but I may be entirely wrong.

If the house truly is objectively messy, and you are pulling your weight (this may be harder for you actually judge yourself) then yes you need to act.

Firstly, have you discussed your feelings with your wife? What is her response? I'm confused by your statement about her enjoying cleaning but she just doesn't do it, not sure if it rings true. Has she explained why she doesn't do it if she 'gets a kick out if it's as you say?

If pp are correct and ADHD is in play here, could you get your wife to seek help? Medication, counselling, strategies etc.

If l else fails then unfortunately your happiness and sanity count for a lot nd if you would be a better person living seperately (how would you deal with youngest??); then perhaps you need to explore that.

To suggest divorce in this scenario is crazy. I’m married to a hoarder and I’m a minimalist so I really sympathise. I have started to crack down and I now do weekly trips to the recycling centre and every now and then order a skip. I just make it clear that I cannot and will not tolerate clutter, excess stuff and mess. My husband has acknowledged he has a problem and is now trying very hard to do better.

BTW he absolutely would be diagnosed with ADHD but I don’t see how that would help anything. Instead we have both learnt to recognise his issues and develop strategies to help ie he no longer puts his mobile on the car roof and drives off!

Wife is another matter but why are you not parenting your children? Ask them to tide up give them one warning. After that no TV or no new toys allowed out until they tidy.
Stop being passive aggressive and acting furious. You need to sit down with your wife and say to her this is deal breaker and she needs to be serious about finding a solution.

I’m so sorry this sounds really difficult, I would struggle to live with that chaos too. You have my sympathies.

i suggest marriage counselling as I don’t think there is anything you alone can do to make it better.

@Stu01 just out of interest, is that 12 L of vegetable soup that will actually be eaten? Is it going in the freezer for some of it?

Is she the sort of person that goes off on one on unnecessary tasks?

You say you have a cleaner and the house is clean for a week but after that, it's not. Surely a very obvious move would be to have a weekly cleaner if you can afford it? But why on earth do you have 30 water bottles? And is that the only thing you have an absurd amount of?

I have adhd, nd dc and a dh who grew up in a regimented home though we did manage to find solutions to the messy house problem. It helped that we both respected each others contribution and worked together, contempt is a very dangerous thing to take hold in a marriage.

We all panic and project about our dc’s future, but it’s really important to get a grip on this anxiety because when we work out if it, we make poor decisions. And honestly, the way you’re relating to your 7 year old is going to have a much deeper impact than a messy house will.

I was dressing my dc at 7 too. He could dress himself, but facing into school on weekday mornings, he didn’t have access to that functionality. I’d trust her instincts on that.

There’s a lot to sort out here. And while I hear you about the house, you’ve put all your focus on something you can’t fix. You’re letting it damage your close relationships, and you’re using it to justify your own less than perfect parenting.

I’d strongly recommend that you take a look at the possibility of adhd. It’s a bit like realising that what you thought was a malfunctioning iPhone is actually an android, and is using a completely different operating system. I only got to grips with my house when I stopped trying to use neurotypical solutions. ADHD_love on TikTok is a nice place to start.

.

Your seven and ten year old children 'don't have the cleanliness of the house as a priority'.

Do they not?! Shocking. 🤣

Seriously though she sounds like me, ADHD, well more likely ADD. And you're probably a bit OCD about cleanliness so I guess those are two areas where you'll never really align.

Half of me gets where you’re coming from and feels sorry for you. Half of me thinks your wife brings lots of love and care to the table and suck it up that’s she’s not perfect because neither are you. If you have the conversation of what she’s going to change, what are you going to change in equal measure?

For example, does she walk away when the 7 year old becomes difficult? We all have different strengths… the challenge is learning to act as a team.

Yes, I hate to tell you op, but my honest impression reading this was that you sound like an uptight PITA in the way you handle it. Your post drips condescension and PA, while ignoring the fact she probably finds you difficult in your own ways - as you "oscillate in a corner."

She is tackling plenty of the tricky stuff; ironing isn't the be all and end all of family life.

If you love and respect her and don't want a divorce then perhaps you need outside help.

ETA and while orderliness can be nice, it actually isn't "the priority" - as your experience of loveless homes ought to have taught you.

Speaking as a very messy person, I feel sorry for you. I have changed as I’ve got older and while still messier than my husband I have come to realise that my life is easier if I tidy up as I go along. She’s not going to change unless she wants to, so I think your only option is to outsource more. Get a cleaner to come twice a week, get someone to do the ironing every week. Get a declutter professional in to help get rid of excess water bottles etc. Streamline everything and your life should be easier.

What worked for me:
Strip everything out of your life that is superfluous. You don’t need 30+ water bottles. It’s just something to fight. They will not do this themselves, they cannot.

If you’re worried you’ll throw out things of meaning - put it in a box and put it in the attic or the garage and wait to see what they remember to be missing.

When you’ve finished, you should have space - an empty space on a shelf, gaps in the cupboard. This is important because they will fill them.

Write down all the chores. Then write down which ones are necessary, and which ones you can live without. I don’t iron unless it’s a funeral. Life is too short.

On your necessary list, then write down the ones children are capable of. They are capable and you should stretch their abilities.

Once you have your list. Sit everyone down. These are the problems we have, I don’t enjoy living in a stressed out dirty house - Little Jonny how do you feel that your favourite toy got destroyed because Annie stood on it? Little Annie how do you enjoy being shouted at in the morning because you can’t find XYZ that you didn’t put away yesterday? How do we solve them together? Get them to deliver the solution. Create buy in.

Write it down and create accountability, make it visible for all to see. I’m a fan of a funny, slightly embarrassing forfeit as a penance for not doing a task but I live with boys where this is deemed acceptable banter. Find what works for them.

Make it clear that mutual teamwork as a family delivers to them, less stress and better relationships with you both.

They should naturally experience ‘happier’ parents as a result, but put the effort in to spend actual quality time with them now that it exists.

Relate it back to them, thank you for loading the dishwasher, now we have time to play a game of X together. Create a feel good factor for you both.

Meals - buy yourself time. If Monday - Thursday they eat nutritious meals, who cares if they eat pizza on Friday. If you know clubs create stressed dinner times, fishfingers for tea is fine. Don’t be a martyr. Sometimes if your kids are safe, fed and clean, it’s enough.

Things that don’t work for me:

Nagging my ADHD partner. Doesn’t work. They dig in. Pathological demand avoidance turns it into a Mexican stand off. A helpful reminder is fine ‘do you know it’s your mum’s birthday on Thursday’ but it has to be at a time where they are vacant. Don’t ask in the middle of making 12L of soup, I suspect that was a hyper focus task.

Arguing. Seriously, they can’t regulate their response. Often if you just walk away, they’ll come back in ten minutes, rational and over sensitive to the idea that you’ve walked away. That’s your time to talk. Don’t take it personally.

Routine. It doesn’t matter what routine they build as an adult parent, if they do have ADHD it’s so hard to make it stick. One thing changes, on one day only, and the whole thing goes out the window for a week. They typically change their routine around within ‘given’ constraints, one day they may shower, have breakfast, then get dressed, the next day they may have a 45 minute bath, be time pressured and have no breakfast. They have no internal concept of time (I find), the little clock in my brain that says ‘it’s bed time for Annie’ doesn’t exist to them.

What I do to combat that, is give the kids their own routine and especially transitions. When my alarm goes off I make breakfast. When I finish breakfast I brush my teeth. When I’ve brushed my teeth I get dressed. When I come home from school I put my shoes and coat away. You can’t conquer everything all at once, but associating one thing with the next task over a series of weeks and months, works. And in turn it removes the reliance on the adult, who is stressed, living in mess, and barely able to organise themselves. Do it slowly, build up to it.

Children surprisingly do show up when you allow them to be part of the solution. As with any relationship, there has to be fun and love, as well as sacrifice and toil. Make sure you’re not just miserable Mum/Dad, constantly barking orders, who everyone thinks is a bit of a grouch. We do more for people we like, people we want to hang out with. We step up and help because we want them to be happy.

What you should know: it can be better, but they’ll never be you. And if you aren’t willing to meet in the middle, leave now. You’ll end up trying to micromanage everyone into unhappiness.

Sounds like you have a wife and child with ADHD and WAY too much stuff. Why do you have 30
water bottles?

Do the children watch TV in their rooms? (I believe this is at the forefront of the detachment of children from the family). We couldn't afford TVs in rooms so we all had to negotiate TV programmes as a unit (no dad thankfully in my case).

When it was time to put the kettle on we would all do a quick whizz chore, taking rubbish to the bin, tidying, unload/load the washing machine (my kids all did their own laundry from about 10), washing up, hoovering.

I don't iron and I don't dry dishes.

All my kids are ND also.

TV didn't go back on until everyone completed their chore (including the making of tea). We worked as a team and made it fun.

They're all grown now but I do miss a quick whizz.

Stop Ironing

Havnt done it for years