Cold war with DH - what to do?

[Potatohead2]

It's been 3 days since it started. My DH did something really silly and I snapped and yelled at him. I think I did overreact and it made him very angry but I just couldn’t hold it at that moment.

He said I always complained and got angry at him and it’s better that he stops talking to me.

Later that day after I picked up my son and saw him outside the house, I said to him I’m sorry for shouting. He ignored me.

We have 2 children, 4yo son and 10mo daughter. My life right now is all around them. I’m breastfeeding and cosleeping with the children. And DH and I haven’t had much intimacy since the baby was born and I feel this could be something contributing to this cold war too.

we’ve been married for 9 years and it’s never been like this. Usually we would make up after a fight quite quickly. This time, after my first attempt at saying sorry, I tried to engage again a few times but received the same response. I’m just fed up and find that we both try to avoid each other now.

so now I’m thinking what a point of trying? During the last 3 days while I’m busy with the children, DH gets to stay up late playing his game, waking up late (no helping with getting DS ready for school in the morning, etc…), playing with the children sometimes while I’m busy doing something. No help with chores. Usually he would help, if I ask. I think now if I ask he probably would do it but I don’t want to ask anymore. ive told him so many times that I’m tired of asking for help. Why can’t he just do things around the house without me asking?

by the way, the silly thing he did that made me snapped was also a household chore that I asked him to do, he did it but it was like creating more work for me to do after.

im just fed up. I don’t know what to do. I’m annoyed of having to do everything with the children while he gets to do what he wants. I know I was wrong for shouting at him but the way he’s behaving right now annoys me so much that I couldn’t bring myself to ask him to have a talk or apologise again.

what should I do? I thought of separation but it breaks my heart thinking about the effects it may have on our children.

exactly. Everyone is so quick to make their own narrative and declare him an abuser, a psychopath, a narcissist when they don’t know anything but one side of the story. It’s bonkers. This is why I don’t run to the internet, I speak to friends, advice lines or work it out with my husband somehow. All these women so keen for you to leave your ‘abuser’ husband won’t be there for you when you’re struggling as a single Mum. The OP herself said things have been good for 9 years, but now people want her to leave him based on scant information.

Agree.

I admit that I shouted at him a few times but it’s definitely not an every day thing. I used to nag a lot (posted about this before) but I stopped for a while now because I have realised there’s no way I could change him. I just asked him to be a good role model for our son and do not let ds see him vape/smoke/eat junks etc…

i think his reason being that he did do chores around the house, like tidying up ds toys, cleaning toilets, etc (again, I need to ask) but I always focus on what he did wrong and snapped at him.

i know it takes 2 to tango and i knew I should have tried to stay calm.

Yep. I had one of these. He got physically and verbally aggressive eventually. You can't communicate with someone like this because they don't want to. They just want you back in your place. Mine would say all the right things in couples counselling then berate me as soon as we got home. I definitely wouldn't recommend that.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this OP. You deserve better.

Both of you should read The Seven principles for making marriage work’ by John Gottman.

You speaking to him afterwards was you making a bid. Bids are important. At the minute you have the four horsemen clip clopping into your marriage.

He also has a dates book - which is worth reading and doing.

Personally I think Gottmans books are excellent and I wish I had read them aged 18. Even being able to call out a horseman helps the relationship.

He may not be interested in reading but it’s still worth you reading them. It will also show you if he wants to make it work.

By the way, since I posted this, a mum privately messaged me telling me to contact her on WhatsApp because she was in the same situation. We messaged and this lady now keeps asking me to leave home and she can let me stay at her spare home to see how I feel etc. Another number now contacted me and asking about my relationship with my husband too. I feel that something fishy is going on here. Maybe some scammers are targeting vulnerable women on mumsnet.

OP I've reported your post to MNHQ so they can take a look and try to figure out what's going on. Sorry it's made a bad situation worse.

On your original point, did your DH ever do chores etc around the house? Is this new since children or has it always been the dynamic and you're just more resentful now that there are two children in the mix? Not blaming you, just trying to see if he's changed or if you're just noticing it now.

Yes he did chores around the house, but mainly after I asked him. I think maybe he’s fed up because I keep ordering him around? And I’m resented because I keep having to do it.

i messaged him about something else (his family’s business) a few minutes ago and instead of responding to me, he responded in the family group chat

i really think he just wants to do this for the sake of annoying me now.

Ignore the poster who seems tot hink YOU shouting is the problem.

This is clearly a man who doesn't think he has to do any of the hard work at home and with the chidlren and is resentful if you insist he does. You have not stopped asking so he's ramping up the behaviours so that you will stop asking. I guarantee that when he finally starts talking to you again - after he feels you've had enough time to blame yourself for shouting - you will find yourself hesitating to ask him to do anything.

I would also be very calmly telling him that if he wants to behave like a child by sulking, by refusing to pull his weight and not contributing, then he should go and do it somewhere else.

Of course, you can only do that if you mean it.

…but….but…if he did things without being told you wouldn’t need to “order him about”!

Why can they not see that???

The only reason you have to keep doing it is because he keeps not doing housework without being told. It’s really fecking simple.

Who do you have telling you what jobs need to be done? Who tells you when to feed your DD or change her? How on earth does your DS get home from school?!

If you know that something needs to be done and how to do it, then he can do the same.

You will continue to resent him because he will not start doing all the things he needs to because they are boring and he doesn’t want to. He will resent being “nagged” the whole time as it just gets in the way of his me time. He will continue what he’s doing, you will probably split up (sorry, but it might make things easier), he’ll get to game and eat take aways and you’ll look after the kids 80% of the time and he’ll continue to be a useless dad who complains his kids don’t love him but won’t realise that’s because he’s never bothered to get involved in their lives.

Hmm...just like to point out that 'stonewalling' or silent treatment is considered to be an act of abusive behaviour in itself @Potatohead2
So, by replying within a family group and not to you directly, he's is showing that he is 'displeased' with you and this is to make you fall back into line. He wants you to put up & shut up and to grovel for forgiveness into the bargain.
You apologised and in a mature adult relationship this should be the basis for a mature conversation about what went wrong and why you got to the point of frustrated shouting.
What is your perception of what his parents/family relationships are like?

He just sounds like seriously hard work, do you really need this kind of relationship? It reminds me of my ex, he used to punish me with the silent treatment. These men don't have the emotional intelligence to communicate properly, it's terrible role modelling for your kids.I'm so glad I walked away from this kind of treatment - I've never looked back to be honest.

We’ve probably all given our partner the silent treatment or been on the receiving end of it, but I do think if it’s going on for this long it counts as an abusive act.

However, reading the OP’s update, it sounds like there is a really unhealthy dynamic at play, and he may simply have had enough of being shouted at/ordered about/harangued.

DH and I found the early years with two small children awful and I think we hated each other. We were tired, our communication was terrible, and it’s a large part of the reason we don’t have three kids. But we came through it and our relationship improved markedly when our youngest was 3. If this isn’t your usual dynamic, I would urge you to seek counselling and not make any rash decisions about separation at this point.

Silent treatment is so destructive to relationships. How does his parents handle conflicts? Silent treatment is often learned behaviour from childhood and takes significant effort to break.

Unfortunately silent treatment is often a sign that the partner has checked out of the relationship. It's extremely short sighted of him as you are in the difficult years. I hope he wakes up to handling his emotions more maturely as his current approach isn't going to work for any relationship.

I don't agree with everyone jumping to accusations of abuse or narcissism. It could be but a one off situation after 9 years isn't likely.

I think that arguments need to be talked through and worked out.

But the instant someone gave me the silent treatment I would leave. No if’s, no buts. It’s the one line that IMO can’t be uncrossed along with violence.

And I would tell him that. “Look, as you clearly don’t want to talk to me our marriage is over. I suggest you find a lawyer, and somewhere else to live. We can hopefully come to an arrangement between ourselves re the kids.

Obviously only do that if you’re prepared to follow through with it, personally I would, but it’s your call.

I think his dad is very similar, he was mainly chilling while his mum would run around with housework, childcare and cooking etc… his mum is a very traditional woman and always think that it’s the woman’s job. We had this conversation before about his parents and I did say I expect him to NOT be like his dad. I don’t want my son to grow up to be a man like that.

But did he agree when you said you expected him to be different? Because he's not acting like he agrees with you.

It can be very hard to escape from what you saw in your family of origin, but it's possible if he wants to. If he's happy to let you do all the work that's not promising.

For those who think that it’s acceptable for the husband to stonewall his wife, if you have never experienced this you don’t understand. It’s a terrible dynamic which will affect the children and even if he has a point of view he’s not handling it in an adult and civilised manner. Silence is controlling and abusive.

Does he want out, OP? Because right now he's living a single life.

This action of his is abuse, pure and simple. Been there.

I would be planning in the back of my head how to separate. But write him a long email saying that this is abuse, that you both need to go to counselling.

But this is a catastrophic way of handling conflict on his behalf.

Stop doing his washing etc. Until this is resolved. He wants to live as a single pe4son, then he has to do it fully.

@Potatohead2
I think that this is still 'fixable' with decent couples therapy if (and only if) your husband is fully on board and prepared to fully engage.
There are several things that you need to decide about what YOU want for yourself within your marriage.

• Do you want to live the ongoing years with this behaviour continuing (even if periodically) as a means to put you back in your box every time you assert your wishes/opinions/complaints?
• How do you, realistically, see your 'partnership' looking like in 5 years time once the DC have gotten older and you're back at work? Be honest with yourself as to whether there will be a proper/fair division of household tasks/childcare. Try to imagine the reality and not how you wish it to be.
• More importantly - you're own DC. In 20-30 years time do you wish to see your DC mirroring the same behaviour and dynamic, that they see at home growing up, in their own relationships? Do you want to watch a future DiL/SiL struggling like you or indulging in much of the same as you do now?

You told your DH that you expected different in his behaviour within your marriage from that of his parents and you are receiving much of the same - which I would guess is increasing slowly? In your DH's mind he probably does think he's modelling different behaviours because he does do some 'stuff' that he probably never saw his own father doing. By doing tasks sloppily or incorrectly he's trying weaponised incompetence in the hope that you'll stop asking this shite from him. In doing so he is firmly placing you, your needs, your DC and your relationship firmly below his own wants - where he believes they should be.

Therapy can help with his mind set if he fully engages but in his mind he's probably thinking that he's deserves subservience & obeisance because that's 'normal' and I earned it. If he refuses therapy or engages poorly then that tells YOU all you need to know - that it's time to end your marriage....unless of course you can't face that. If you choose the status quo then at least get yourself some therapy to bolster your esteem and teach your own DC that having a vagina does not warrant subservience to anyone.

@Potatohead2 Just like to add that I would never suggest therapy with an abuser but this is currently on the cusp or tipping point I think. What he says to the suggestion will tell you all you need to know. If he does go and then turns it on to you then disengage immediately and go for individual therapy with a view to building up your own resilience and ending your relationship.
Also be very aware of DARVO going forward as that usually the first line of attack when trying to assert yourself.

Hello @Potatohead2
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MNHQ

I’m doing all the cooking but he got takeaway and ate at different time. I’m currently on mat leave.

Just a small thing, but how was the takeaway paid for? From the joint account?

If it was NOT from his own designated 'personal luxuries spending' account, then you have an issue.
Assuming you are not rolling in money, and don't get takeaways multiple times a week, this action is telling you "I am entitled to spend money on myself, regardless of whether the family can afford it".
Selfish to the core. He does not want to be in a 'team' with you.

Do you get a 'personal spending' amount each month? How are finances arranged? How is your access to money during maternity leave?

Personally, I think you would be better off splitting up.

OK op so the takeaway meal for one, that's bad enough, what he's saying here without saying it, he's making a point op,

Today/ tonight's meal cook for you and children only, because of course you won't know if he brings in another takeaway, you not reading his mind so fuck him and don't provide a meal for him tonight,

Your not a mind reader,

Let him be childish, but this is not healthy for any of you,

This is him controlling this situation, please don't let him

Why did you message him about the business? He doesn't want to engage with you so it works both ways. No more washing, cooking or whatever else you do for him.
Don't continue to try to appease this man, he doesn't deserve you. Once oldest DC is in bed tonight, go out with the baby, don't tell him where you're going, even if it's for a walk. Once you act out the character he'll be worried.