Slight concerns about my daughter’s relationship

[MiceAsPie]

I’ll preface this by saying that I’m not meddling, I don’t intend to and I’m just starting to think ‘hmmm’ based on a few conversations we’ve had recently.

She’s almost 27 and her partner is 34. They’ve been together just over 2 years. Hes a nice chap and I like him. She is really in love with him, he likewise with her and she’s been really happy to date.

he has 2 children from his first marriage and he lives 10 miles away in a 3 bed house. My daughter has her own 2 bed flat. They decided to start house hunting 7 months ago to buy a place together. They both have good jobs with good salaries. Respective houses put in market and my daughter happened to sell first - they viewed a few places and settled on a nice 4 bed place. Made an offered which was accepted and then just waited for his place to sell - complicated a little as his is a part buy part rent. Burn it an issue as she would have lived in with him if hers happened to complete first

Mortgage all sorted and she’s packed up to go to his when her mortgage advisor flags up a query. To cut a long story short, it transpires he has a CCJ that he knew about but was hoping to not have to tell her. He initially denied it all and then came clean. He’d taken on his 3 bed and just couldn’t manage the bills and had hidden how much he was struggling to her.

she was devastated as she literally had no idea he was living off credit cards and had got in such a muddle. They talked it over, she paid nearly 2k in fees spent to date, she took her flat off the market and lost her buyer of course and he pressed ahead with his sale and he’s about to move in with her now. Perhaps in the next month or so.

they thrashed it all out and she decided to forgive him etc etc. He’s categorically not some secret spender or anything - he had just got in a mess. He is paying her back and all was on track again - and she’s trying to feel positive about losing the house she thought she was getting!

So, all fine. Smoothed over.

Until this week. She’s very busy at work. She works on a specific emergency service and is investigating a huge case right now - one that is taking her to other parts of the country and having to stay away. This is a career defining case for her and she’s flat out but excited. She’s working closely with a male colleague and he’s away with her at the moment. They obvs have separate bedrooms on the hotel they’re booked into but they have dinner together and work alongside each other all day. Her colleague is married - they are genuinely just colleagues working a case together

anyway, she told me her partner had been quiet and off with her for a few days and after a 16 hour day yesterday she rang him from her hotel room to insist he tell her what’s wrong. He cried down the phone , says he feels insecure , weeping that he’s not seen her since last Tuesday but ‘all would be fine when he can hold her again.’

she’s become angry with him now. He cried loads the other month about all the house stuff and now it’s tears again. What on earth does he expect her to do here? She has to work and she’s really in love with him but she’s growing really irritated by these tears and by yet another thing coming up

it all feels a bit red flag to me now and I’m not quite sure what to advise her - his house sales going through and he’s about to move in with her as soon as it does but she was crying last night saying she feels so much pressure now

to reiterate, he is a nice chap and treats her well. No arguments and he does loads of little supportive things for her etc etc but I’m now feeling like I’m not keen on any of this and I think there are significant red flags. Not good with money, lying about it to the point where she thought they were buying a house, and now insecure and jealous about a work colleague.

thoughts?

I’m SO SORRY about the length of all that. Ugh! But I didn’t want to feed it through ChatGPT!

He has to go. Manipulative loser, will never change.

He needs to now become her ex partner.

He lied to her about his finances and she lost money because of it. If her flat had sold, she would have been up a creek with no place to live

Now he's going all dependent and needy and demanding reassurance when she's on a work trip. It's a subtle form of job sabotage, he wants her whole focus on him, not her work.

You are right, he is flying BIG red flags, the huge financial lie and now this.

If it was me, I'd cool the relationship down and scale back. I think he's going to go controlling if they move in. His mask is off and she's starting to see the real him.

RUN RUN RUN.

no. She will feel obligated once he moves in and with 3 kids. wtf is he crying for?? They don’t even live together before

a liar and a manipulator.

she needs to put the brakes on asap.

He probably fuming he hasn’t been able to tie her down with the joint mortgage so has had to change tactics quicker than planned.

@outerspacepotato that’s spot on. She would have moved in with him if his house had happened to sell first and then she wouldn’t have been very adrift

luckily she has her own money. She had a small mortgage but she is financially secure so that’s something

At the very least, he needs to put his house sale on hold and NOT move in with her yet.

Because for starters, how is he planning to accommodate his 2 children in her 2 bed flat?

That’s before we even get started on the fact he’s a liar, a financial fuckwit and a jealous needy whinger.

Yes there are big red flags but also she moved WAY too quickly into house buying with him. She should have given it much longer for these issues to surface.

I will say though that he’s a lovely man. I have no concerns over abuse of any kind whatsoever

I have concerns that he is a big man baby, needy and wet. Crying because he’s insecure , crying because he couldn’t face telling her about his financial issues before she thought they were buying a new house.

and the tears over her being away with a male colleague! What exactly does he expect her to do about that?

@GardenGaff she is sorting a bedroom for his 2 children. She has two bedrooms and two bathrooms BUT of course this was not in any plan.

she believed they were buying a 4 bed property, there was never going to be any question of his children living in the flat.

they live a long way from him so he only has them a total of four overnights a months so it’s doable with the bunk bed they’ve bought

This is awful. I bet that during the whol e house/credit card crisis, he was crying becuase HE felt so bad, and SHE would never love him and she'd probably leave him? So HE was the victim (albeit of his own shit?).

She does need to leave. But there's a good chance she won't because he is already preying on her. And he's probably already found the little chinks in her armour - eg , this career and work opportunity is important to her but any vaguelly normal and empathetic person WOULD be aware of how it's potentially impacting their partner and feel a bit bad about that. So he's exploiting that.

Plus side - you are on HER side and can see these red flags when she brings them to you. The reality is that many many men like this get away wtih it becuase the woman's friends/ family say, "oh but he's just so in love with you" or "don't throw a great relationship away because he's a bit insecure" or "bless him, he tries so hard and you're so successful he probably feels threatened" or "everyone makes mistakes". all actual examples of statements made by PIL in similar situation, right down to the money and insecurity

I would ask her this: After all his tears and drama and upset around the money and the knowledge that he had made an absolutely massive mistake that could have had a huge impact on his life with her, driven in part by his insecurity.... what has he done to address this in a more permanent way? Has he sought therapy for his obvious issues? Has he committed to a specific plan of action to deal with the UNDERLYING issues (not the money in itself but rather his fear and over reaction to things that impacts his behaviour)?

The answer, of course, will be no, he hasn't. That's the springboard for you to say to her that while you understand she feels bad for him, she has the right to expect her partner to be an equal and to actually step up and properly support her, not add additional burdens, and to do the work to ensure he can do that.

Oh, and if she has ANY relationship with the ex, I would highly recommend that you suggest she has a cup of tea with her. men like this don't behave this way only once....

You should have concerns over potential emotional abuse, and financial abuse.

Letting things get to the point they did is highly manipulative. He absolutely will have known that the CCJ will impact the mortgage application. Letting it go to the point of where your DD feels there is no option but to live together in her home is highly manipulative

I have no concerns over abuse of any kind whatsoever

Really? Deliberately lying, or withholding information (if that makes it more palatable), in order to get someone signed up to a joint mortgage. I’d call that financial abuse.

Op, I'm sorry, I'm going to weigh in again because, 15 years later, we are still dealing with the fallout of SIL NOT breaking up with him when these flags first came up and because I truly believe that if PIL had behaved differently, things might have been different.

I will say though that he’s a lovely man. I have no concerns over abuse of any kind whatsoever

Except he is very clearly already, or moving towards, being emotionally abusive and controlling - making it HER problem for his issues and often, leading to her having to restrict herself and curtail/change her actions/reactions/behaviours.

As a side note: I believe that in many cases, these people are not doing it on purpose. Their thinking is disordered and they genuinely do not have the ability to see their behaviours for what they are or to take any responsibility for their actions.

and the tears over her being away with a male colleague! What exactly does he expect her to do about that?

1. Where possible, stop doing this or hugely limiting herself. eg not eating meals with him, stay in a separate hotel.
2. constantly "prove" there is nothing going on - respond instantly to texts/calls, send pictures etc.
3. Constantly reassure him and/or "make it up to him" - extra time together, sex, doing other things she doesn't like/want to do. It can also often take the form of being used as excuse to limit her more at home, eg "because you're always away, of course I don't want you to go out with the girls on Wednesday - I guess if you insist on going i'm right that really, you just want to flirt with other men and spend time with them."

they live a long way from him so he only has them a total of four overnights a months so it’s doable with the bunk bed they’ve bought
Why? this is a huge red flag. Ask her if he has said anything about why? Does he blame his ex? Is his ex "crazy"?. Does she keep him from the children? Is he paying a decent amount of child maintenance?

@MageQueen yep. Exactly that. He was in full victim mode. Felt so awful and terrified she was going to leave him. I said at the time ‘ god this is all a bit pathetic isn’t it?’ Because … it was. Lots of tears. The reality is it wasn’t about the money - it was about the fact him not speaking up until backed into a corner led to her nearly losing her home

I have spoken to her about what he’s doing to show her he’s solving these issues. Because all I see is a man who slips into needy as and when he sees fit.

And as for the current work thing! Don’t get me started. I’ve told her she must never modify her behaviour and she is to have drinks / dinner with her work colleagues as much as she bloody wants.

@MageQueen thanks for the insightful post. Regarding the children - he’s a great dad. Has a good relationship with his ex wife. Pays a large amount of maintenance and pays all petrol to get them. Never bad mouths his ex

so it’s not as clear cut as he’s a wrong un if that makes sense? Hes a good bloke, my only observation of him before all of this was that he was a bit ….. passive? Wet?

I think she had a lucky escape finding out when she did. Hiding his financial situation from her when she was about to go into a huge financial commitment with him is totally irresponsible and honestly, weak behaviour. I'd also worry that his behaviour could start to get in the way of her career. I think he should stay where he is. Your daughter doesn't need this kind of nonsense in her life, topped off with all the stress and complexity of step parenthood too

And she often goes away for weekends with her friends , nights out etc. He’s never said a word and couldn’t care less

he’s rattled by the work colleague because he’s good looking I believe!

@ForgetMeNotRose I’d agree with that

spineless, weak, passive, weeping , victim vibes - that’s what I get from him. Overt abuse? No. But I take on board financial and emotional abuse isn’t as clear cut as someone deliberately being so

Your daughter sounds like a very capable, successful woman.

This wet blanket needs to go before he drags her down and tries to make her feel guilty everytime she has an accomplishment.

He expects her to give up her job and raise his kids - bluntly put.

He needs to find the pair he used to make them kids and put them back on.

Your Daughter needs to continue to love separately from this man.
Just over two years and he wants them to live as a family, has she any idea what living with him and his kids will be like.

His deceit about his debt is a huge red flag to me.

I can understand him feeling embarrassed about his debt because many people are. However, he kept quiet knowing your daughter had put her flat on the market, secured a buyer and was close to sale and said nothing. He kept quiet knowing your daughter was no doubt excited about the prospect of them buying a new home together, a new home that potentially he wouldn't have been able to pay his full share of, and said nothing. Had it not been for the mortgage broker, your daughter would still be in the dark.

Had he grasped the nettle and come clean in the beginning, I would have respect for him. They could have delayed their plans until his debt was paid off and bought their new home together with a clean slate. The fact he chose not to is not a good omen to me. He was weak and deceitful.

Tears.... I'm all for men expressing their emotions in a healthy way, including crying, but this guy is turning into a jealous, clingy mess.

My advice would be to put the brakes on. Let this guy sell his house, sort out his debt and then move in together (assuming he does.)

I may be being overly cautious and a little cynical, but I can't help thinking that this guy may be viewing your capable, hard working daughter as his Golden Goose. Sorry, OP.

Thoughts?

You are oddly overinvested in your adult daughters life. My mother didnt know the ins and outs of my relationships until they were over. In other words once I had decided to end it I told my mother what was up.

You cant control her life or tell her to end it and nor can we.

You keep saying he is a lovely man is the same way many women on mumsnet talk about how their husband is being financially manipulative etc but but but he's a good dad.

He may be lovely but he is not a good partner for your daughter due to his find jail defiet and now controlling manipulative behavioor and FYI his behaviour is abusive. He many not be physically abusing her but he is emotionally controlling and abusing her and if she moves in with him he will wear her down and tie her down and the confident independent daughter you know now will end up being a shell of herself with loss of self confidence and her whole existence aimed at keeping him happy.

He will probably try to isolate her from her friends and family and women get stuck in the loop of trying hard not to make him cray, blaming herself that it's her fault and she has to make sure she keeps him happy so he doesn't cry again.

So yes he may be lovely but he doesn't seem to the right person for her and hopefully she is able to see it and breaks things up, I don't know how close you are to your daughter and if you're able to speak your mind without causing a rift with her. It's a tricky situation because you don't want to upset and push her to him but it's also hard to see what is happening and not say anything. Maybe come at it from the angle of suggesting she slows things down and not move in yet and see how the relationship goes?