Slight concerns about my daughter’s relationship

[MiceAsPie]

I’ll preface this by saying that I’m not meddling, I don’t intend to and I’m just starting to think ‘hmmm’ based on a few conversations we’ve had recently.

She’s almost 27 and her partner is 34. They’ve been together just over 2 years. Hes a nice chap and I like him. She is really in love with him, he likewise with her and she’s been really happy to date.

he has 2 children from his first marriage and he lives 10 miles away in a 3 bed house. My daughter has her own 2 bed flat. They decided to start house hunting 7 months ago to buy a place together. They both have good jobs with good salaries. Respective houses put in market and my daughter happened to sell first - they viewed a few places and settled on a nice 4 bed place. Made an offered which was accepted and then just waited for his place to sell - complicated a little as his is a part buy part rent. Burn it an issue as she would have lived in with him if hers happened to complete first

Mortgage all sorted and she’s packed up to go to his when her mortgage advisor flags up a query. To cut a long story short, it transpires he has a CCJ that he knew about but was hoping to not have to tell her. He initially denied it all and then came clean. He’d taken on his 3 bed and just couldn’t manage the bills and had hidden how much he was struggling to her.

she was devastated as she literally had no idea he was living off credit cards and had got in such a muddle. They talked it over, she paid nearly 2k in fees spent to date, she took her flat off the market and lost her buyer of course and he pressed ahead with his sale and he’s about to move in with her now. Perhaps in the next month or so.

they thrashed it all out and she decided to forgive him etc etc. He’s categorically not some secret spender or anything - he had just got in a mess. He is paying her back and all was on track again - and she’s trying to feel positive about losing the house she thought she was getting!

So, all fine. Smoothed over.

Until this week. She’s very busy at work. She works on a specific emergency service and is investigating a huge case right now - one that is taking her to other parts of the country and having to stay away. This is a career defining case for her and she’s flat out but excited. She’s working closely with a male colleague and he’s away with her at the moment. They obvs have separate bedrooms on the hotel they’re booked into but they have dinner together and work alongside each other all day. Her colleague is married - they are genuinely just colleagues working a case together

anyway, she told me her partner had been quiet and off with her for a few days and after a 16 hour day yesterday she rang him from her hotel room to insist he tell her what’s wrong. He cried down the phone , says he feels insecure , weeping that he’s not seen her since last Tuesday but ‘all would be fine when he can hold her again.’

she’s become angry with him now. He cried loads the other month about all the house stuff and now it’s tears again. What on earth does he expect her to do here? She has to work and she’s really in love with him but she’s growing really irritated by these tears and by yet another thing coming up

it all feels a bit red flag to me now and I’m not quite sure what to advise her - his house sales going through and he’s about to move in with her as soon as it does but she was crying last night saying she feels so much pressure now

to reiterate, he is a nice chap and treats her well. No arguments and he does loads of little supportive things for her etc etc but I’m now feeling like I’m not keen on any of this and I think there are significant red flags. Not good with money, lying about it to the point where she thought they were buying a house, and now insecure and jealous about a work colleague.

thoughts?

I’d say that if she’s going to dump him she should do it asap before the kids move in. It would be really sad and unsettling for them to move out again.

Nowhere has she said she wants to control her daughter and because you're an adult doesn't mean you can't get support or advice from your parents ever.

Because your relationship with your mother was slam shut when you moved out doesn't mean people who still have relationships with their parents after moving out are wrong just different approaches and frankly it's better to have a support system.

Many women stuck in abusive relationships do not have a support system outside their abusive partners so I disagree that a mother shouldn't know what's going on in her adult daughters life, yes there's a balance and extreme on both ends but your approach isn't the right approach.

I think he's so desperate and needy that he's going to turn overtly rather than subtly controlling, likely if they move in together.

He could have majorly screwed her over by lying on the financials. For me, that would have been it.

Now he's trying to mess with her job with his neediness and demands. I think any time she has something come up that's important and takes her attention off him, he's going to smother her with demands for attention, which will affect her job in a negative way.

The desperate neediness and manipulation is going to get worse. This is him trying to keep it in check. He's not lovely. He's emotionally demanding to the point of interfering with her livelihood and he's a liar. I consider what he did over the near house purchase to be financial abuse. She lost money over his lie.

@ILoveWhales I’m not over invested at all. We have a close relationship and she confides in me and asks my advice. I’m sorry that you may not have this sort of relationship with your own kids

He’s a cocklodger in the making. As soon as he gets his foot in her door that will be that. He’ll make himself at home, not paying his way, and there won’t be a house purchase in the future.

He’s manipulative and emotionally and financially abusive.

He’s a shit father that doesn’t even live near his children and only sees them a few nights a month.

He’s a liar that has dragged her into his financial turmoil.

He knows she’s too good for him and is now starting up the controlling behaviour around other men.

And you’re defending him? Take several large steps back. She needs to leave him before he gets his claws any deeper into her and you’re wanting her to stay with him. You’re going to do more harm than good right now. The excuses you are making for this man are shocking. Is this what was modeled to your daughter growing up?

My mother didnt know the ins and outs of my relationships until they were over.

No, because you chose not to tell her. The OP obviously has a very different relationship with her DD in which her DD chooses to confide in her mum. That doesn't make the OP overly invested.

I may sound a bit mean but what is the appeal of a man with children to women who don’t have any of their own. Your dd is much younger than this man, she can find someone without kids and can have own if they like without added issues.

I have nothing against men with kids but they usually come with a lot of complexities and reading here on mumsnet, childless / childfree women do so much for such men and get so little in return.

He's a liar and that had financial consequences for your DD. He's now trying to sabotage her job. He's a crap dad too. He only sees his kids four times a month. I don't have kids and am not a man and even I could be a good dad four times a month. She needs to seriously think about why she wants this, he is moving into her flat, housing him and his DC, how long before he goes for 50/50 so he no longer has to pay maintenance as well as not paying rent.

So far...

He's nearly cost her her home. And now he's crying on the phone about her work.

So he's happy to lie to her, and put her in a poor position to get what he wants. Regardless of what she'd want.

He's also happy to put pressure on her about spending time with her colleague.

The red flags are flying all over the shop.

Now that he's going to have his feet under the table in her home I'd bet you there's lots of "but I've made dinner for you..." or "but I planned a special treat for us..." moments when she has plans.

Crying over his insecurity about her
colleague when he's just nearly cost her her home shows that he's got no fears of using emotional manipulation whatsoever.

Abuse is able to grow and thrive because it's not a punch in the face on the second date. It's subtle. It's playing the victim when you're the culprit. It's using "but it's because I need you" to start changing someone's behaviour.

In your DD's position, I'd love to have a chat with his ex about why that relationship broke down.

People rarely change.

I’d say he’s rattled as her working away with colleagues is AFTER she found out about his debts etc. He sounds very insecure which is probably why he kept secrets about his financials until it all came out - which it was going to!
Your daughter needs to have a frank discussion with him - they’re not teenagers anymore and he needs to stop with the emotional distress/waterworks and learn to communicate his feelings properly.

He's just a bit of a wet lettuce and a weasel. He won't change. Your dd sounds as if she's worth much better than that.

@Shitmonger you’re making up quite a bit there but don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story Don’t mind me ignoring your ‘advice’

I disagree. She’s supporting her daughter, who is expressing her feelings and asking her mum for support. Now OP is asking us for advice.

Just because you didn’t have that kind of relationship with your mother doesn’t mean OP is overinvested in hers with her daughter.

My sons, now in their 20s, come to me for advice and I love that they feel comfortable doing so.

I’d suggest he looks for somewhere to rent rather than move in with her. Then take a bit of space to evaluate.

Thank you (almost) all

I take it all on board and it’s food for thought. I’ll be having a further chat with her. I fear for him ultimately though as she’s pretty ruthless in relationships and doesn’t put up with any nonsense so he can perhaps sense that this is relationship ending stuff from her perspective and that she’s had enough.

Ive already asked her where all this ends. The financial lying that had a real cost for her and now the emotional neediness. She loves him though but I can tell her patience is wearing very thin so what it will take from him now I don’t know. That’s up to her what she chooses to do

Have you read much about vulnerable narcissists? I know narcissism is overly banded around, but I recognise so much of this from my ex who I didn't consider abusive until our relationship therapist told me so.

He always made me feel guilty about working hard, any extra hours etc, when I was really motivated by my job, but he did it in a way that implied love etc and made me feel important to him. And his financial history... All of that he subtly made me feel was all about my privilege etc and he was so ashamed etc. please do a bit of research on that and your daughter is very lucky.

My mum still feels sorry for my ex, thinks he was a "nice chap". The thing is that he was never intentionally bad in any way, and would be horrified to have heard our relationship counsellor say it was abusive. Interesting that she didn't feel she could say it to him, that he was too fragile to hear it, but she was clear she had to tell me...

This isn't nice ...this is being deceitful and trying to control your daughter and sabotage her time at work. You both need higher standards..this does not get better. Your daughter needs to say he isn't emotionally secure enough for a relationship with her as she is going places 🙏✨️ and break up. He has revealed himself to be a liar and a manipulator

You are right to be concerned. Reminds me of an ex during my Uni years, there was always something wrong with him, a sniffle here or a sore arm there, wet is the word I’d use. Massive ick to the point I ended it quite abruptly and the tears made it worse. The jealously would be enough for me to walk or run! This will never change, it’s a feeling and behaviour that is part of who he is, it will only grow

@CuppaTea23 so sorry to hear you went through that.

im veering towards thinking her partner is just as wet as a rainy day in the Lake District. Spineless. Needy. Victim mode type. Too scared to tell her he was struggling financially. Too cowardly to tell her about the ccj. Crying because he feels ‘sooo bad’ about the financial cost to her. And now all weepy because he’s feeling all insecure and has hurty feelz.

She is no pushover and she won’t tolerate this for much longer. My advice to her - on reflection and taking into account reading some of these posts which strengthen my original thoughts - is to finish the relationship. I don’t think she needs this millstone round her neck quite frankly

my second piece of advice to her (if she chooses to give him another chance) will be to not pool any finances whatsoever with him, keep her flat for herself and ignore any further crying or insecurity - that way she’s financially protected and always in a strong position for when the inevitable happens and she ditches him

She's nowhere near as ruthless as you think. She's accepted the nonsense of him hiding a CCJ from her and completely scuppering. their plans. As nonsense goes that's pretty massive.

She's forgiven something a huge number of people would have ended a relationship over, and she's taken on the fixing of his fuck up by lending him money and housing him.

Please be very careful and do not fall into the trap of thinking that because your daughter is outwardly tough, intelligent and no nonsense that this means she couldn't end up in an abusive relationship.

@ARichtGoodDram yes, you’re right. And that resonates as it puts it succinctly. She certainly has ‘fixed’ the problem.

I don’t have concerns about her ending up in an abusive relationship. I’m not blind to it of course but it doesn’t worry me because it won’t happen.

what I predict will happen is she will suddenly ‘wake up’ and dump him. But right now she feels ‘invested’ and she doesn’t want to admit to herself that something she held in high regard isn’t perfect and not only that, but it’s downright wrong in a lot of ways
It’ll come though , of that I’m sure

I personally think these are orange flags. Something to keep a close eye on but not necessarily insurmountable issues.

Money issues after a divorce with 2 kids…not too surprising. Lying about it (or lying by omission) not great.

Being insecure about the male colleague, not great but incredible common if the genders were reversed! & if he’s divorced because his wife left him for someone else/was unfaithful I could understand. It doesn’t give him the right to take any of that out on your DD though. Those are his issues to work through.

The fact your daughter is feeling trapped is the red flag. The very least she should do is not take the relationship to the next stage. She needs to put the breaks on him moving in while she digests all this and they get to know each other better. She should be excited right now, not in tears.

Reminds me of a boyfriend I had at uni who started crying when I said I was going back home for two weeks at Christmas. Said he didn’t believe I would come back, he doesn’t want me to go etc. I was too young to realise how messed up this was but it got worse and he ended up controlling me by being really nasty about me, putting me down, eroding my confidence so I wouldn’t leave him for someone better. Broke up with him after three years of a not very nice relationship.

this is a red flag to me

"He’s a cocklodger in the making. As soon as he gets his foot in her door that will be that. He’ll make himself at home, not paying his way, and there won’t be a house purchase in the future."

This in spades. Once he's in her flat she'll have a hell of a time trying to get rid of him and what about his 3 kids! She'll honestly rue the day she set eyes on him. Please advise her very, very strongly not to let him move in.