Bullying husband

[noitsachicken]

My life is a mess and I am trying to get on top of it, one thing at a time.

The biggest issue, which has been going on for years is that my husband is a bully and I am only just accepting it.

He has huge mood swings and can become irrationally angry over small things.
It has been this way ever since I knew him, I ignored the red flags and I will never forgive myself for that.

We have three children and in the last couple of years they are showing the effects of years of this behaviour. Angry, lashing out, anxious scared. I hate writing this and feeling culpable in that I have let it go on.

His angry behaviour includes shouting, screaming, swearing, name calling/insulting, door slamming, storming out.

He has never been physical, but has thrown things on occasion, and the children are often scared by his behaviour. I have rarely felt comfortable to leave him with them. I never feel like I can relax in my own home, and am often walking on egg shells. I imagine the children feel the same.

I have spoken to him many times over the years about his behaviour, he had had help before, but the behaviour comes back. We go through cycles of things being ok, then not again. During the ‘ok’ times I would kid myself he could change and the ‘ok’ times out weighed the bad. Also, he’s a good parent in other ways and does lots at home and works hard.

I know that all this is not ok.
I had a very honest and frank conversation with him this week. Told him the things I would no longer accept or tolerate and what I need him to do (get help/therapy).
I have reached a limit and can’t accept it anymore and I am so angry with myself for letting it happen for so long. But we are now in an ‘ok’ period again now and I am worried I will forget the not ok times, not forget, but excuse again.

Is it possible to ‘recover’ from this sort of behaviour? Can he ever actually change?
I have known him 17 years and he hasn’t yet.

This sounds like my father. He never changed, though he did soften with age - though I’m talking around 80. He’s 87 now, and our relationship has hugely improved, in large part because I have a toddler he adores.

I desperately wanted my mum to leave him but she couldn’t bear the idea of breaking up the family, having been a child of divorce. With hindsight, I’m glad they have each other now, but I think she sacrificed a lot of happiness — things are calmer now, but ultimately she’s bored; I just don’t think he’s the person she should have done the vast majority of life with.

I think he: 1. Had a traumatic childhood (including boarding school - so corporal punishment and a fucked up relationship with parents), 2. Had tendencies towards really depressive swings (at one point wondered if it could be bipolar but I don’t anymore); 3. He has type 2 diabetes (diagnosed in 60s, I think) and I think his blood sugar swings really contributed - huge blowouts were almost always at the end of or just after a meal, and alcohol - not enough to be drunk but again to give a sugar spike. He would never have therapy.

It’s a complicated picture, but I think it’s a therapy and facing issue head on problem or you should prioritise your future happiness. If you wait for the kids to be grown, that will always be more years down the line.

He wont change. Get rid. Live a happy peaceful life op. Your kids will thank you

OP, I was in your position for years.
It is emotional abuse, he won't change.
They're v rarely assholes all the time - they take their feelings out on those closest bc they believe we'll put up with it. The fear of the next outburst is immensely damaging.
Get some therapy for yourself (NOT with him) and ideally your kids.

I understand completely the fear of the kids being alone with him. That kept me with my exh for ages too.

Start making plans. Feel free to pm me.

The kids will benefit hugely from having a safe home, even if they have to spend time with him. They will also be listened to if they don't want to do so. Mine did eow for 5 years, tons of late night texts and tears, SO hard all round but had to ve their choice. At 21 and 17 they are now pushing back, very emotionally detached from him, and youngest has just called him out on all his behaviour.

They agree 100% I was right to leave. The contrast between our home and Dad's is very stark and they struggle more with him during those times BUT they have a safe space to retreat to. It's incredibly sad and I loathe that I couldn't protect them 100% from him. They are gradually stepping away from him. None of it is easy but living full time with this, even with you as a buffer, is worse. Take care.

Final thought: they need you strong to deal with him going forward, whether together or apart (and it's not feasible to never ever lesve them alone together). Staying in that situation is weakening you. Start getting advice. None of it is easy. X

I’m in exactly the same position. And then on top of this you lose them 50% of the time and you’re not there to take them away/step in. It’s really not as easy as people make out…

As you know your husband unless you act there's a good chance that your daughter will choose a similar husband and the boys will become your husband. That is not meant to make you feel bad. Sending you strength its not going to be easy but the alternatives are horrific. Ps if it was the red mist coming down then he would also target your daughter. He is choosing his behaviour.

So I have been on the recieving end of this it's my DW that loses her temper and a lot of the time I don't know know when they will happen either.

We met 15 years ago. She tries to say she's not like her her mum but unfortunately due to her bad upbringing (Mums boyfriends came first) Not to mention her not valuing her as a person shouting at her and swearing at her sadly that's rubbed off.

I believed I could make a difference and change her outlook on life but I have learnt the hard way she's never going to change plus she wants another baby but there's no way I will bring another baby into that environment.

My daughter 14 isn't showing the signs I can be very understanding with her I give her as much freedom trying to balance it out my son 9 is a different story completely.

I also get the door slamming and often if she's having an argument with my daughter I will get involved to take it off so it directed at me I ignored warning signs too but only started once we had kids.

My dh and his siblings lived with a father like your dh, and it has thoroughly screwed them all up. My dh is the oldest of the three siblings, and despite being the main target of his father’s nastiness and temper he is weirdly the least affected long term by it although he had his own awful anger issues in his teens and early twenties. He managed to get that under control in his later 20s and he is now the calmest man ever. He’s now early 50s and I’ve been with him for 20 years and Ive never once experienced an angry outburst from him. His brother and sister however have both been left with huge emotional problems which are still massively affecting their lives (they’re both late 40s). They both saw how my dh was treated by their father when they were young and they became terrified of getting the same treatment from him. They must have lived under constant stress as children, in fear of their father and his temper.

My SIL can’t cope with life at all. Anything that goes wrong causes her to have emotional breakdowns, days when she can’t get out of bed, being signed off work for weeks and weeks. She flies off the handle about minor situations, can be controlling of other people and their decisions, and cries very easily. The only thing that is really keeping her on the right track is that she has a very steady, calm, rational dh who has been her rock for the last 30 years.

My dh’s youngest brother is the worst affected. He is very much like his father personality wise. Very quiet and withdrawn, but prone to angry outbursts. When he does get angry (I’ve been on the receiving end on a couple of occasions and it’s awful. We’re now lc/nc) he literally growls nasty hurtful words, he clenches his fists, he’s intimidating and physically threatening in his stance and demeanour. He can’t cope with any form of conflict at all, so even if you disagreed on something quite minor with him, he would struggle to deal with that. He refuses to open up to anyone, tell anyone how he’s feeling, admit he’s finding anything difficult. The only emotion he ever shows is anger and it’s becoming increasingly frequent. He has a wife and a toddler, and he’s lovely to his child, but his behaviour towards his wife is becoming increasingly worrying. His wife needs a lot of physical and emotional support due to a condition she has, but he’s become completely shut off from her, refuses to speak to her about anything other than their child and mundane topics) becomes impatient and unkind towards her, and then randomly explodes with anger at something she does. She lives in a constant state of confusion and worry, which then exacerbates her condition making her harder work, which then further exacerbates his frame of mind and his outbursts. Everyone is worried sick about their situation but no one knows how to help him because no one can get through to him (they’ve all tried).

Anyway, what I have described is the tip of the iceberg of how they’ve been affected by living with a man like your dh. Their whole lives have been deeply affected by it and always will be. I know you’re scared to leave him because your dc will still have contact with him but something has to give. In reality, you would most likely have them living with you the majority of the time, and as they get older they can choose to see him or not. Surely it’s better for them to be away from that situation the majority of the time rather than living in it all of the time?

OP, I’m in a similar situation, but just recently moved apart from ex. I also have the same concerns in terms of how my kids will cope, especially as teens, during their time with him, without me to smooth things over. My ex was similar to yours, less slamming of things, but quite hurtful things said, a domineering and controlling attitude, quick to anger without taking time to understand what was going on and not much self-reflection afterwards. A bit narcissistic really. But also good moments with the kids too, could joke and clown around, good provider etc. So it was a really hard decision to take and it took years to make it. Lots of anxiety for me. How it seems to be working out with my preteens is that they are 60-70% of time with me (he didn’t seem to want 50%). So that is about two days a week. On those days, things invariably come up where he seems controlling and quick to anger but his behavior has improved, I think because he wants to look like he is being a great dad. Also my not being there has also calmed him down because there isn’t a tense dynamic to set him off further. And very importantly, there is a safe calm home with me where communication is always open and they can be relaxed here. Our kids will have to learn how to get on with difficult people in life, example future bosses, that’s just life sometimes. So they will adjust their behavior accordingly. But the main thing is they have an example through my decision, of valuing yourself enough to reach out for a more peaceful life, so I hope that is something they will keep with them for the future. Anyway this has been my experience so far so I can only speak from that.

I’ve been reading ‘Why does he do this’ and some of the Freedom Project.

There are elements that I recognise - but in these examples it’s always worse, it’s always more than I am experiencing.

I’m trying to understand what is abusive and what is bad parenting, and incompatible personality traits

i have left someone like this. What people forget on here is that bad men get worse when you leave them so it doesn’t always solve the problem. Life can become harder. That has been my experience anyway. Think it through. The first step to me is that his behaviour is visible to others - friends and family - otherwise he will deny it when you leave.

the examples are only that, it’s about how someone makes YOU feel. Only you can decide if that’s something you want to tolerate, but at what cost?

My dh was like this. Before we got married. Eventually I realised I couldn't marry him if this would be my life, and the life of any dc we had.

8 weekd before our wedding i was ready to call it odd.

A few years later when ds was about 2, he started back sliding. He threw a chopping board snd it smashed against a doorframe. Ds was in the other room.

I very calmly told him if he didnt go straight back to therapy the relationship was over as ds could have walked in as he did that and be hurt.

He has done a lot of therapy and a LOT of work and we dont have these issues anymore. But ot was work. The second time particularly as I think realising how easy it would have been to hurt ds was a real incentive to dig deep. Needless to say? A lot of it was based k
on his childhood And family issues, including the fact that his temper had been indulged as a child and teenager.

Your dh
, whether he acknowledges it or not, likes the effect of his temper on the rest of you - perhaps it means his life is easier or he doesn't have to do the hard things. Perhaps he gets to avoid the work to actuly parent his children when they behave badly. Perhaps yiu and the children lower your expectations. This all works for him.

But one day he WILL hurt you physically, even if just indirectly. And hes hurting you all emotionally and mentally in the meantime.

How is it not enough that your children are scared of him? Do you need him to start physically battering them as well?

Weekends are often tense.
Yesterday of the boys was being a bit rude, H spoke to him, dealt with it ok, but DS always reacts badly when H speaks to him (which is why I asked him to let me deal with the children at the moment) after I said to him, please let me deal with them. He was cross and stormed away, I was calm and went after him and reminded him what we had agreed. He said he thought he had dealt with it well and he deserved ‘some credit’ for not shouting recently. I said he had dealt with it well, but DS can’t take any negativity from H without getting upset. He was frustrated, he has been dealing with things better this past week or so, but it’s only been a week! And I said ‘it’s not about you’ maybe that was harsh but I need him to understand that the children are the most important here.

Later there was a bigger upset around dinner time, I can’t remember now but ended up with lots of shouting (from him and older DS) DD is upset and DS2 in the garden. I said I was going for a walk, I needed to get out. I took my bag and genuinely intended to just keep walking. I got as far as the bench across the road and just sat there crying, trying to think what to do, I wanted to keep walking. I thought through options in my head of where I could go, how I couldn’t be found. Not long after DS2 appeared and sat on the wall outside our house, he didn’t say anything (was too far away) but just sat there where he could see me. After a while I called him over and he sat with me, he was worried, he didn’t know where I was. We stayed for a while then went home.

@noitsachicken im sorry this happened. My weekends are often tense too. What happened when you went back inside - did H apologise or try and talk through the situation?
does H know how unhappy you are? Sending a big hug your way.

No, I just watched TV with the kids. He didn’t say anything

I have adult children and my exH was the same. Including cycling of nicer and never stopped money etc.

How it impacted my children was they weren't free to be themselves, to have a bad day, to be angry, wrong or unfair etc, all typical human experiences. They had to surpress emotions constantly. They had to appease him and make no demands on him. They could never challenge his opinion or his narrative. They lived fearfully and this made their lives small.

As adults this has played out in many ways. One has never had a relationship and never intends to. Another turns themselves inside out to appease partners squashing their own likes to match they partners, each partner means a new version of my child.

Another struggles to manage conflict (they all do) and won't work through differences of opinions.

The damage will last a lifetime. My youngest was 9 when my ex left (no I did not leave for reasons). My ex also was violent so that's is also a factor.

Living with an ogre damages you. Just because they don't hit you or stop you doing things doesn't change that.

Separating will give them respite at least half the time rather than none of the time. Courts will ask what your children want and if they don't want to see him they can't be made to.

Prepare savings (store vouchers, premium bonds, cash, anything. Replace your car, washing machine etc). We lived in utter poverty for years but this was better than living with him.

@noitsachicken- that’s heartbreaking to read.

You don’t need to reach a particular score on a checklist or exactly match your life to someone else’s story of abuse to know it no longer works for you and your children. You can make the decision for you and that’s ok.

Your husband, even on his best behaviour, has ruined everyone’s weekend again. You all deserve to live in a happy, safe (or even just neutral) home.

It doesn't even have to qualify as abusive. We all have the right to end a relationship if it is making is unhappy.

You appear to be thinking, oh, if its not abusive its OK to stay. But you're clearly near breaking point and your children clearly know it and they watch you in case you do. And if you break, the children really will be left with their father full time. It doesn't seem from your posts that you've taken any professioal.advice. At least do that so you know what your options are. Is it abusive? Its the wrong rabbit hole. Its the damage its doing to you and your children that matters.

I know I’m at breaking point, but I’m in a bit of a confused fog.

I am not happy. I know that, the children, especially my son, are showing signs of emotional distress.

I haven't been happy for a long time, but made excuses and carried on. The last couple of years I feel like I have started to see how I could be happier, and have been. This was by doing more of the things that made me happier, but this in turn led to things being harder at home and I have gradually gone back to not really doing any of those things. He never directly stops me from doing things, but I’m made to feel guilty, and it’s my fault things at home aren’t done, or that he has to do them because I’m ’never here’ for example.

I also became too close with someone else. It was dangerous and has stopped, but it helped me to see that I could be happy again.

I feel so overwhelmed with life, I get up and carry on, I go to work and make everyone else happy. But not myself.

A few weeks ago I hurt myself, it was an accident, but I made it worse on purpose, I’m not sure why.

I want to leave him, I want to be happy.
But the children are settled, they have a nice life, I am scared of the practicalities and the reality of divorce. I have no idea what happens, what it would look like for me.

He is going to therapy, I’m pleased. But it feels like it’s only because I said he has to go. I don’t know if things will change. And I also feel like I’m done, I don’t really care and that’s hard to realise.

I want to be happy, be loved, be in love. Be with someone I want to hold and touch and kiss and have a close and intimate relationship with. I know that will never be the case with him again. I flinch when he is near me. It’s been almost a year since the last time we had sex, and that was the time he continued when I didn’t want to (I have another thread about this). I have tried to get past that, but I mostly push it to the back of my mind.

It’s so easy for everyone to say leave, I know that’s what I want and is the only way I can see myself being happy again. But the reality isn’t happy either, especially for the children. I know they would be better out of this toxic environment, but they would also loose out in so many other ways.

I’m so sorry your situation has not improved, but you know only you can change it.

Gather your financial documents and see a competent family solicitor.

Make it real. It’ll be easier once it feels real.

Your children may have 'a nice life' on the surface, but you know they're already being damaged. Please don't use them as an excuse to delay leaving. I know it's not easy, but your life and their lives will be better.

Let him go to therapy but don’t let that change what needs to happen. Your children are terrified of him! They are also getting to an age of making choices for themselves of where they’d want to spend time. By getting divorced you’d be labelling his outbursts as intolerable and unacceptable, which teaches your children that they should never themselves accept this treatment or behave in the same way.

Your children are nervous wrecks and I choked up reading about their reactions. See a solicitor about the likely outcomes of divorce and financial situation. The fact that you are the lower earner doesn’t mean you’ll be destitute, and he won’t necessarily be looking at 50:50 care either. The children must see that you’ve chosen them over convenience and comfort. Getting divorced is very disruptive, but being emotionally abused will destroy their psyches! Even if you divorce and they still see him, it’ll be under the understanding that a) they won’t be forced to, and b) dad’s behaviour isn’t ok and they don’t have to be treated like that.

My EHX started turning his behaviour from me towards my kids and he was absolutely fucking done for. He screamed at my son once and I called the police, he’s never once set foot in my house since then. Divorce yes was disruptive, but when we were all alone just me and the kids and we could all stop walking on eggshells, their whole personalities opened up. That really broke my heart because I thought I’d borne the brunt of his misery, but as soon as they were free of him my kids became different people. Your children sound quite far gone in that they are already showing anxiety directly related to their dad, and telling you openly that they are scared. You must act! Start getting official documentation on all of this. Take your kids to the GP and get them support for anxiety and tell them it’s because of their dad. Record all instances of them being frightened by their dad. Contact women’s aid, by email. Say what you e said here. See a solicitor and start divorce proceedings. Don’t have your kids living like this for any longer than you have to.