Bullying husband

[noitsachicken]

My life is a mess and I am trying to get on top of it, one thing at a time.

The biggest issue, which has been going on for years is that my husband is a bully and I am only just accepting it.

He has huge mood swings and can become irrationally angry over small things.
It has been this way ever since I knew him, I ignored the red flags and I will never forgive myself for that.

We have three children and in the last couple of years they are showing the effects of years of this behaviour. Angry, lashing out, anxious scared. I hate writing this and feeling culpable in that I have let it go on.

His angry behaviour includes shouting, screaming, swearing, name calling/insulting, door slamming, storming out.

He has never been physical, but has thrown things on occasion, and the children are often scared by his behaviour. I have rarely felt comfortable to leave him with them. I never feel like I can relax in my own home, and am often walking on egg shells. I imagine the children feel the same.

I have spoken to him many times over the years about his behaviour, he had had help before, but the behaviour comes back. We go through cycles of things being ok, then not again. During the ‘ok’ times I would kid myself he could change and the ‘ok’ times out weighed the bad. Also, he’s a good parent in other ways and does lots at home and works hard.

I know that all this is not ok.
I had a very honest and frank conversation with him this week. Told him the things I would no longer accept or tolerate and what I need him to do (get help/therapy).
I have reached a limit and can’t accept it anymore and I am so angry with myself for letting it happen for so long. But we are now in an ‘ok’ period again now and I am worried I will forget the not ok times, not forget, but excuse again.

Is it possible to ‘recover’ from this sort of behaviour? Can he ever actually change?
I have known him 17 years and he hasn’t yet.

Speak to Citizens advice or a womens charity that offer advice. You are in am abusive situation. You will be able to explore your options with regards to possibly topping up with UC even short term while child maintenance is sorted out. You need advice from somewhere.

Talk to Women’s Aid and educate yourself about the divorce process: Wikivorce, Divorce for Dummies, family solicitor websites.

Gather all financial documentation and see an experienced family solicitor.

NB: Your two older children are old enough to refuse to stay with your husband.

My mother was like this. A ranting aggressive bully. Seemingly uncontrolled rage, shouting, threats, deliberately frightening the family, ready to tip over into absolutely terrifying scenes at any moment.

The damaging effects stayed with me for decades and led me to form relationships with abusive & threatening & bullying men- it was what was familiar. I deeply resented my father in later life for not moving heaven & earth to get me away from her. I have a bit more sympathy with him now (in my 50s) but would still categorise his behaviour as cowardly and irresponsible.

I really cannot emphasise enough how lasting the effects of this behaviour can be to a child. Fear of a caregiver - which is what you are describing - imprints on children’s minds & plays out in hugely damaging ways in later life.

I would urge you to leave this man rapidly & not under any circumstances to agree to 50/50 custody (because yes, it will be worse when you are not there).

As a first step I suggest consulting a solicitor who has experience with coercive control and residency disputes (you can call up solicitors firms & ask the receptionist, or look at their websites). It is very difficult to leave (having re-enacted my childhood by living with the Dominator I can attest to this). It won’t be easy! No point in pretending otherwise. You will need the support of your own family, & a decent lawyer.

But it is far far better than seeing the difficulties with relationships & life choices that your children will almost certainly encounter in later life, as adults, as a result of a frightening & insecure childhood- because no matter how hard you try to offset his behaviour, this is what they are currently enduring.

Those of you who lived with parents like this, what were they like at other times?

Lovely. Which makes it so hard. But I went into not one but two abusive relationships as an adult and never had a healthy, boundaried relationship until I was 42. My dc also has to manage a manipulator as a father and that’s on me.

Your children will have 50% of their time in a peaceful house where they can feel safe, rather than 100% of their time not knowing when the next eruption will come. And as they get older they can choose not to see him, or only to see him in safe settings like trips out or at grandparents’ house.

Read Lundy Bancroft’s book Why Does He Do That? It’s eye-opening. I keep my copy so dc can read it when old enough.

Staying is worse. Please do what you can to make him leave (or leave yourself with the kids).

Not to jump in to the OP’s post but as it’s connected. In your case, I am surprised you would consider therapy, or that if there has been abuse, that a decent therapist would take you on.
As you say it’s hard because nice parts, but it’s the bad parts which have to be the deciding factor.

You say he's not hurting you or your DC. I disagree. He's hurting all of you emotionally and severely with his angry and unpredictable outbursts. Your children may never recover if you don't sort this out. Yes it's hard and distressing but you all deserve better. I'm heartbroken for your DC if I'm honest. They deserve so much more

I am the child of this situation. I hold a lot of resentment toward my mum for not leaving. Our life was hell. I left as soon as I could and made a bad choice with a partner following in her footsteps. I got out thankfully but it’s learned behaviour. Please leave.

Please advocate for your children, they have no choice and are having this toxic behaviour inflicted on them, only you can change that

I just wish things were clearer.
The majority of the time it’s ok. It’s just these occasional outbursts.

Before we had children the outbursts were mostly out of frustration at a situation, rather than directly at me.

Once we had children it would be out of frustration but aimed at the children, something they have done wrong/not done/said/spilt/broken etc.
I’ve realised it has always been at our boys but never at our daughter. She is scared of his outbursts, but it’s never at her, she just sees/hears it.

I read about DV/abuse and it doesn’t fit, or doesn’t tick enough boxes.

You and your DC get one life - ONE life! Is this honestly what you want for them or you?

Some, maybe even most of the time it's OK - not fabulous or fun or carefree or silly or spontaneous - but ok. However, when it's bad, it's so so bad that your children are scared to be left alone. Your DS is so scared, he's begged you not to go out so yes, you may have the 'freedom' to go out - but you don't!

As I said, this is no life for any of you!

Keep telling yourself it’s not abuse, for god’s sake your children are scared of their bullying father. Hopefully they’ll tell someone else who can help them.

You cant make me feel worse than I already do, but thanks for trying.

But the more people I speak to, the more opinions I hear and information I read the more confused I feel. That coupled with being in a ‘good’ phase just compounds things.

This is not that black and white.

Please, read about the cycle of abuse. If everything would be bad in abusive relationships, nobody would be staying in it. The good part is always there to keep people trapped in the relationship.

@noitsachicken I was your children growing up, walked on egg shells when my father had a cob on, watched as he turned on my older siblings. My sister has no memory of what he called her but ran away from home at the age of 17 abetted by my mother to live with my granny over in Ireland. He was a delight to friends and work mates but a control freak at home. My mother was an Irish Catholic so divorce in the 1960s was out of the question. I stopped talking to him when I was 16, he died when I was 18 and I did not go to his funeral and have never regretted it. At 67, I am unmarried because I did not want to be trapped like my mother.

However, you are not trapped, you can plan and move out with support, yes your life may not be as comfortable but your children and you will be happier, and believe me that makes an amazing difference. Pls talk to a women’s refuge and get proper advice to move on… talk to a lawyer, as you are doing far more damage to everyone by staying instead of leaving.

I’ve been in a similar situation to you. It’s very hard to have any sort of clarity when you are in it. I seemed to live in a perpetual fog which I think was my brain protecting me from the fear of his anger. I was made to do the freedom program and I couldn’t believe just how many boxes he ticked.
He’s been awful with the kids in the aftermath but they have chosen to see him and not to see him at times. My youngest was 9 when we split and my solicitor said he would have pushed the judge for her to make her own choice should we have needed to.
It’s been difficult but I think my DD’s have done so much better emotionally out of the shadow of his anger. It was dreadful in the beginning for us all but it pays dividends later. It might be helpful to talk to women’s aid to get some professional help.

I so understand where you are coming from. When they are angry and giving the silent treatment it so feels like abuse but when you are in a better place you so question whether it is abuse at all. Coupled with being gaslighted to make you feel like you are at fault and you’re crazy, you never really have clarity what’s going on.

It is abusive enough? Are they doing it deliberately? I’ve come to the conclusion if they can manage not to lose their temper with others that they come into contact with outside the house, why can’t they control it also with the people that they are supposed to love the most.
i think I the anger is basically a form of control. That them getting angry is making you question whether it is worth raising whatever it was they got angry over again. It puts you on eggshells and makes you modify your behaviour not to upset them again.

when he is being angry and horrible for what feels like not good reason or seems like a huuuge overreaction, it’s easier to recognise it as abusive. Then when he is nicer or more normal it is just confusing. I think it’s designed to keep you stuck and I think it just gets worse over time.

I grew up in the household you are raising your children in. I HATE my father. And will never forgive my mother for sacrificing my childhood at the alter of “staying together for the kids”. It was awful. My siblings have both sleepwalked themselves into abusive relationships as that’s the norm. And so the cycle continues. I have my own issues but have fared better. My parents are still married but to all intents and purposes separated. They each have their own peace now as they love independently in the same house. Two nights a week of his bullshit and five nights of security and peace would have been worth it. I’d have known I had a safe space to return to. Your children don’t. Watching him bully and berate and belittle my mother hurt me. A lot. She should have taken us and left. Given us a refuge and safe space where we could relax, where she could relax, where we could all get away from him. By taking on the bullying herself she did not protect us from the bully- we just had to witness and feel terrified of being next on the chopping block. It was a horrible feeling of shame and helplessness and resentment that has at times threatened to over shadow my life. I wish my mother had left. Had protected us even if only for some of the time. Please do that for your children op.

“Those of you who lived with parents like this, what were they like at other times?
Were there good memories?
Do you have a relationship with them now?”
my step dad was like it, he was just not a very nice person and god knows what my mother saw in him, he knew she was too good for him which is part of the reason he tried to ruin her, absolutely crap father to all of his kids, including his own but especially me and my brother the step kids, we were babies and he couldn’t just be nice, that’s all kids want and need is a bit of interest and kindness. we all have commitment issues, only his favourite son can keep relationships, my other brother became a heroin addict, me and my sister are both single mothers, Im in fear of bringing a man like that near my son so I’ve raised him alone.
the only relationship I’ve got with him, I’ll take my sister when he’s dead so we can both piss on his grave, and that will be more than he ever did for me.

I think you need to accept he is violent and physical if he is throwing things and slamming things.

These are intimidating tactics used by abusers. It is a physical warning and act of violence even if you haven't sustained any bodily harm.

Don't minimise his behaviour.

Bad people aren't bad all the time.

That doesn't mean they're not bad people just because they don't commit 100% of their time to being heinous, angry and abusive people.

Google women’s aid freedom Programme. You can do it online though best in person. That will help you understand the cycle of abuse and how it works (when you’re in a ‘good’ phase it all feels fine but it isn’t - your kids are on tenterhooks waiting for the next outburst).

also as per pp read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. You’ll recognize a lot of the behavior in there.

realising, and changing the situation, takes time. It’s not as simple as up and leave. Start with women’s aid, give them a call also, they will help you work things out and figure out how to leave practically. Also see a solicitor so you know your situation.

at this stage it’s all about gaining clarity and knowing your options. Then when you are easy, and when the next cycle of abuse hits - which it will- or when your son heartbreakingly begs you not to go out again - then you will be ready.

He can't change, no. He can modify his behaviour and rein in the outbursts temporarily but it will be a facade. Then when he explodes again it won't be his fault, of course.

Your children will get some say in how often they see him too at their ages. It's not like you can physically force a 13yo into the car.

They would have a safe place at home with you op, that’s life changing. Currently they live on eggshells, if you split yes they’d still have to put up with him but they could come home and their nervous system relax.

while you think about this, start filming him and saying you need to leave every. Single. Time. He starts. Log it. Tell him you can’t actually go out knowing your kids are scared at home without you. Get a friend/family/ babysitter in when you go even if he’s there, he won’t kick off the same way if they are there. Reassure your kids.

Keep your husband accountable and staying with the couselling and professional anger mangement.
If you end up separating any positive changes in his outbursts will benefit your children and how you relate to each other long term.
Has husband looked into whether he is suffereng from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, or Hypertention etc? He should have checkups for any disorders and alcoholism, affects of medications like steroids etc.

Sounds like you don't think he's abusive but has the communication skills of a toddler.

Kids won't understand the difference and your stress about worrying about their perception isn't a good position to be in.

Have you told him to stop behaving like a toddler and act like a grown, adult male who should be a role model to the children?

You asked if anyone we knew was similar and changed? My dad had a temper, and he grew out of it, but that was way after I left home! He mellowed with age.

My MIL acts this way, too. She's 76.

If you wait for them to grow out of it, you'll be waiting for a long time.

I find people who are never challenged, or think they can intimidate or distract those who do challenge their behaviour, just keep doing what they do because there is no social pressure to stop or the pressure isn't consistent.

Once you consistently stand up to these type of people, they will normally back down and re-evaluate the way they act because you leave them no choice.

One of the phrases I've found works is, "You respect strangers enough to not act this way so why do you do this with the people you love?"