Something isn't right thread #2

[FourAndFive]

Thanks so much for all your help and support. I can't believe the first thread is full - there isn’t a huge amount to update on right now, but I am looking forward to the future with my head held high, whatever the outcome. I'll keep posting.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5391850-something-isnt-right-emotional-affair-or-just-friends?page=1

@FourAndFive I would pretty much bet this woman has no idea of the extent of your Hs limerence - a lot of younger people in particular really do genuinely not see the issue if they get over involved with other people’s partners to the extent of making the partner feel uncomfortable - however some blokes would seriously rather ruin a good relationship than lose face and have to admit to a woman that their partner felt they had overstepped the mark by some margin and that the friendship couldn’t continue as it was.

Complete respect for the OP.
Utterly perplexing that some are demanding she give the H an ultimatum. No!
Completely otiose whilst he is still in limerance anyway.

Partly echoing what some have said above about the 28 year-old perhaps being unaware of the damage she is part of, I do think it’s possible that she is not as conniving as some here have made her out to be. It’s possible that she’s just naive and insensitive, due to her age and lack of life experience. I think at that age I was still under the innocent impression that I could be intensely close but ‘just friends’ with men. Plus I think I was lacking the life experience needed to have much empathy to know how it really feels to be the long-term partner of someone having an emotionally intense friendship.
Of course, this ^^^ could be wrong and it might be the case that she actually is cunning and awful!
However, I wanted to make my point to counteract those saying she is definitely planning to sleep with him at the overnight event. It might well be that she’s booked 2 single rooms and is naively excited about their hobby adventure (still not appropriate though, imo to be clear!).

Anyway… I’m just musing, and it doesn’t really matter, as the important issue here is what the OP’s DH’s intentions are. It’s frustrating that he is holding his line about how he just wants his special friendship and how he should be allowed to have friends like this. He would perhaps have more of a point if it hadn’t been for the fact of how he went about it, ie lying and having secrets and deleting things. So really, I think he needs to accept that he is the one who has done something wrong here and he has therefore invalidated his ‘right’ to have ‘innocent special friends’.

OP is making progress as she navigates this bewildering new path. So many of us have been through painful break ups, and have offered advice, based on our experiences. I think we need to be mindful that all marriages are different, we are all different and need to park any frustration that we may feel.

@FourAndFive , take what you need from your thread, that’s all. We’re here for you.

I think there is a vibe that you still want this marriage to work, and that is absolutely your prerogative. Whatever you decide is fine as long as you don’t compromise your values, or settle for anything less than you want. That means you are happier than you were before this ‘friendship’ . We might think, and I certainly do that the sticking point is him cutting her out of his (your) lives completely. I worry that his offer to do anything it takes, - separation, therapy, is his way of trying to walk the walk, without doing the talk. He thinks you will come away feeling you’ve blown this innocent friendship out of proportion. Is he being deceitful over this offer? So be consistent here lovely, she goes, end of. No other solution will work. That needs to happen before any therapy etc has a chance of benefiting either of you.

Just my thoughts as usual. You’re doing well, a few weeks is nothing, it’s still raw and new and scary. I get that, just keep focused on what YOU want, you can only control your actions.

Why?

@FourAndFive what a hard situation to be in, but you sounds like you are finding your own way through...

In addition to limerence, have a read around 'cognitive dissonance'. It's the psychological discomfort someone feels when they are holding confilicting beliefs/actions. So your h believes he is a 'good man' but he also knows his behaviour is at odds with that. It will motivate him to rationalise the conflict by minimising the harm or seriousness, and will motivate him to seek reassurance and promote himself as the good guy (hence trying to conrol the narrative with your df)

Ultimately though, it is hard to hold that inconsitency, and it could be causing him real mental distress. Know that HE is causing his own distress, none of your actions are causing it. And only he can allieve that distress - either by changing his beliefs (that he's not's a good person after all) or by changing his behaviour (and stopping all contact with his 'friend'). He's in a middle place now (which won't resolve his distress long term) where he is rationalising and justifying to reduce the psychological tension, or he is avoiding and denying that any dissonance exists.

I think @ThatBlackCat just means why should OP play the waiting game while husband gets to see where his relationship with OW takes him, when an ultimatum might shock some sense into him.
But I also understand an ultimatum might backfire. OP needs to do what feels right for her and is taking care of her peace of mind. I hope he comes to his senses before OP calls time.
i don’t think anyone here thinks OPs life is a soap. People are just trying to help from afar.

@mumuseli Yes, she could really that naive. I was in my 20s and actually beyond.

When I was in my early 20s I worked in an office and was very good friends with a man 7 years older than me. He was married with a small child and I was living with my partner and engaged. We got on very well and used to sit together every lunch time to do a crossword.

One day I was in the ladies toilets and I heard one of the older women say 'it's disgusting, carrying on like that, she should be ashamed of herself.' I wondered who they were talking about and will never forget the dreadful feeling of shock and disbelief that washed over me when I realised they were talking about me!

I just didn't see him in that way and believed he felt the same. I knew there was nothing in it so I just carried on as normal. Then I got made redundant. On the last day I came in to work and did the usual thing of being first in the office which meant I had to walk through the office in the dark to get to the light switch. Suddenly he moved and I realised he was standing there waiting for me. He sort of lunged at me and kissed me and said 'I wanted to day goodbye properly.' It was just awful.

I actually felt betrayed that he had had these feelings for me all along.

I wish I'd been more aware and savvy and had at least realised it was time to change when I heard the women gossiping, even though to me it was totally innocent.

What a dummy.

Some of the comments regarding how the OP is responding/acting are really bizarre. Whilst 'leave the bastard' is banded around very easily on here, the reality is much more complex for most relationships (where there isn't outright abuse or exploitation of some sort etc).

So true - walking away is HARD, no matter what’s been going on

Totally agree. I’ve been on another thread recently where the OP went from describing an unpleasant situation to realising she needed to leave her partner. All very emotional and draining for her. She has literally been hounded off her own thread by posters saying how disappointed they were that she hadn’t booted him out as fast as they thought she should have done!! As if she didn’t have enough turmoil without the shaming that goes on from posters who think they deserve regular updates, or more details which the OP has deliberately not revealed for the sake of privacy, or that they are owed the sort of resolution they determine as acceptable. It’s all very well chucking LTBs about but it’s not that simple. It can take several attempts to go through with leaving someone. I think some of these posters forget that even if they mean LTB or other very harsh advice in a supportive way, it actually comes across as demanding and shame inducing. Which is obviously not going to be helpful when someone is at their lowest ebb.

And it is irrelevant whether the 28yo is or isn’t complicit in all this. The focus is that the H is refusing to break contact. I’m glad the OP is not going along with suggestions to contact her/warn her off etc. It is not about her, it is solely about the H’s corrosive behaviour.
In my own case, I know that OW was chasing him, but he did not need to respond. It was his response to her and refusal to stop training her (sport) that wrecked our marriage.

He’s staying with her?! The woman he won’t give up? Have I read that right?

@Bo1978 , OP said No, he is not staying with her.

I don’t think anyone is saying LTB , but it is absolutely a fact, he will carry on as he is.
Until he feels , really feels he’s losing everything , he will happily go on cake eating it.
op has fell into place so far.
I mean despite him actually living away from op currently….. he. Still. Won’t. Give up OW.
This is because he expects op to fall into line , as usual.
He can’t have them both… he needs to make his mind up and stop treating op like a cadburys option

Just RTFT, and huge hugs to you OP. What a disappointment, and in someone that you have shared so much of your life with.
I had similar-ish happen to me, though thankfully I wasn't married and had only been with DP for a few years. It took a lot of time for me to accept that he would never, ever change the narrative in his head. She was "just a friend" and I was a bit mental, apparently, and ultimately jealous and controlling for wanting him to stop all communication with her. I can't say that this has gone away completely- Ex and his OW have managed to convince many that I was just a bit mad (those people, of course, didn't see the messages between them.) I am still a bit bothered by this, but not by them any more.

@KimHwn
Did ex and ow get together?

@FourAndFive you sound as if you are focusing on all the right things. Yourself and your DC and parents. I hope your H not being around is giving you time and space to think about what has happened.
Don't get sidetracked thinking about the young woman's motivations. This is about you and your H and what you want from your marriage.

It does sound like limerence or similar. How sad that he’s prepared to throw his family to one side to prioritise a “friendship “. You’ve done the right thing asking him to leave. You should be his priority and the fact that you’re not means whether it’s an affair or not, whether he wants it to be an affair or not kind of doesn’t matter to be honest.

This has been going on for a year. The H is in very deep with the denial about the fact he's not been a good guy here, that he's got feelings and fantasies that he's not going to admit to OP any time soon. I'm not calling him a narcissist in general but he sure is in full narcissistic crisis right now. If the OP is ok with it, then, it's ok to give him some time to let it really sink in : he cuts contact or the marriage is over. He needs to sit long enough to understand that the OP is absolutely not going to do the pick me dance, is not going to back down again leven if the suicide manipulations reappear. OP needed to get her head around the fact that he could do this and he needs to get his around the fact that the OP could and has responded as she has done. That she is saying 'I see you and just, NO. What this 'friend' is thinking and doing IS irrelevat to the OP. That said, this woman is 28, not 8, or even 18. Multiple texts a day and gift exchanges with a married man whose wife you've never even met let alone had a close enough relationship with to know she's A-OK with it. Just NO. Take some reponsibility for your behaviour. A 28 year-old is not a child.

The op is being actively proactive, given the options, seen a solicitor ....that's unravelling fast. For people to claim otherwise, they haven't read the thread.

He comes back fully cleared off the other woman and doing therapy or then ....the op decides ...

He needs to take a bit of time and think

Not officially. OW is married to big money, who has lots of affairs. Ex now has a new gf, I am told that the affair with the OW is still ongoing. Really feel for the new gf.

That’s awful… some strange people about …

You deserve glad times and respect. Bless you. Xx

OP should take whatever decisions she wants in her own time. It's obviously a big change in her life and for her to consider if she still loves him or if she would prefer to be apart.

I’m not a fan of ultimatums. My ex husband criticised me for not issuing an ultimatum prior to starting divorce proceedings. His unacceptable behaviour was different from OPs husband but he was also aware it was causing distress to me (and also our son)

He said if he had known “it was that bad” he would have stopped. But he already knew it was affecting his family, it was only if it was going to affect him (by me leaving) that he was prepared to make any changes.

OPs husbands lack of regard for her distress is not something I could come back from. If he cut off OW as the result of an ultimatum it would seem a pyrrhic victory

Best wishes OP. I hope you find the happiness you deserve