Something isn't right thread #2

[FourAndFive]

Thanks so much for all your help and support. I can't believe the first thread is full - there isn’t a huge amount to update on right now, but I am looking forward to the future with my head held high, whatever the outcome. I'll keep posting.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5391850-something-isnt-right-emotional-affair-or-just-friends?page=1

He is a man who has not put his wife first and has not cared about hurting her if that's what you mean?
He has done some impressive mental gymnastics to justify his behaviour and convince himself he is a good guy. It is difficult to stand your ground with a man like this because they sound so reasonable and make you doubt yourself but no, he is not a good guy.

I mean that this behaviour really pointed out he has never been the man he portrayed himself to be, as I know someone similar but in another situation

I think his character is the same as it ever was, it's just now a situation has arisen for it to be highlighted

Male in my 40s reading this @FourAndFive. I don’t usually read Mumsnet, but I was doomscrolling through trending topics and somehow found my way here. I’ve spent hours reading this and wanted to share my reflections in case that’s of any interest.

Firstly, thank you. I’m happily married to my DW, but I’ve never really stopped to think through the implications or consequences of something like this. Honestly, it hadn’t occurred to me, probably because I like to think I can avoid trouble.

Reading these threads, your replies, and your thought process has been a real education. They’ve made me realise how naive I’ve been about what I have and how easily it could all fall apart. It’s made me feel a bit childish for not appreciating it more.

This thread has also made me look at my whole world differently. I feel more determined to put my DW and DCs first, deliberately and consciously, rather than just assuming I already do.

It’s easy for men like me to think we’re the “good guys” because we work hard and invest so much time. But reading both the replies to you and your responses has shown me how that can become a story we tell ourselves, while forgetting that DW has agency and will not tolerate nonsense. It’s comforting to believe she would always be there, but this thread made me see how easily I could lose everything and how much I’ve taken for granted.

I hope it’s not inappropriate to share this here, and I’m sorry if it feels like I’m inserting myself into your situation. That’s not my intention. Your story has been a wake-up call, and I’m grateful for the perspective it’s given me. I hope you get the best possible outcome, whatever that looks like for you. All the best.

Love is blind.

You might know someone a long time and they can still surprise you. A new situation arises and you see a different side of them and you realise that you never really know anyone.

Plus, both partners have aged, have hurt and let each other along the way too. The fight for the relationship might be gone.

I saw something this weekend that said:

• Love needs action
• Trust needs proof
• Sorry needs change.

And I thought of you @FourAndFive . I hope you're holding up ok.

Thank you so much for this. I wish you well. Don't fuck it up.

@SBGM247 your wife is fortunate to have you, too. Notice how this thread made you feel and never, ever forget it.
You had exactly the same stance before you read it, as my husband pre-affair:

“It’s easy for men like me to think we’re the “good guys” because we work hard and invest so much time. But reading both the replies to you and your responses has shown me how that can become a story we tell ourselves, while forgetting that DW has agency and will not tolerate nonsense. It’s comforting to believe she would always be there, but this thread made me see how easily I could lose everything and how much I’ve taken for granted.”

It was thinking like this that turned into a sense of entitlement for him, which helped brush off guilt and allowed him to give himself permission to cross boundaries until putting himself first and lying to himself about why he ‘deserved’ it, became a habitual practice. And the habit slowly eroded conscience.
He was and still is “one if the good guys”. He always was. He’s a good guy. Because not all guys who cheat are “bad men” and not all women who cheat are “bad women”.
They’re just ordinary decent people like you and me who for whatever reason, given the ‘right’ circumstances, choose badly and use their ‘good person’ entitled narrative to justify it.
Don’t ever trash the life you cherish or take it for granted. Marriage is hard, can get mundane and humdrum and routine, but don’t let it. Find time for yourselves as a couple as well as a family, to keep alive the reasons you married each other in the first place. Children should obviously be the priority but don’t let that take over or think “we can pick up where we left off when they get older.”
Somebody else might step in to fill that gap, or look as if they can. They can’t. They can be new and exciting, something you may not have felt for years, become an obsession because of the highs, but that is fleeting, borne of novelty. It always wears off, it cannot replace the beauty and value of loving someone who loves you deeply and the building of a life and a home together.

Thank you @Thewookiemustgo . I will bookmark this and read it again. I'm guilty of the pattern you've described and want to kill that part of myself now.

@SBGM247 you clearly have good insight, kill it now before it kills you.
The image your wife has of you right now would be changed forever, infidelity and untrustworthiness of any kind kills that image. For good.

How are you doing, OP? Hope you and DC are having a calm week.

How are you doing @FourAndFive? Have you moved forward at all? Thinking of you.

Found this thread and wondering how you are getting on OP?

Thanks for checking in. Things are okay when they are okay and then not when they are not. It hits you in waves, as I'm sure some of you are painfully aware of.

He is back doing his hobby, but not where they will cross paths. He's unfollowed, blocked and deleted everywhere possible. They are both a part of a semi regular organised hobby event that can't be avoided. He said he will ignore her, but I don't think that is viable, honestly. No catching up, no personal chat - non negotiable.

Counselling has been excellent for me, not so great for DH. Our counsellor validates my feelings continuously. The friends that know have been incredible too, as have my parents. DC's are amazing. "It's up to you, Mum" continues, I'm so grateful for all of them.

He is the penitent man, doing everything he can. We've talked about a break away, and him coming home - just not quite yet for me. But it is what we need to do next to move forward. Sending love to all those going through it.x

Has he actually said 'Oh my goodness what was I thinking? How could I be so vile to you? I'm totally in the wrong - I'm so sorry'?

If he's still getting challenge from the counsellor then it sounds as if he could still be seeing himself as the victim here and some way from being truly sorry.

Have been thinking about you all often. I am pleased to hear that your family, friends and especially your children are very supportive of you. That’s a testament to your love, loyalty and connection with them over a lifetime - reaping what you sow. It’s important that they are not holding judgment and you know that if you were to rekindle your marriage it would be solely because you loved him and desired to - no sacrifices for children or saving face with friends and family.

There is no rush to any of this. Prioritise time to recover, settle, explore your needs and trust that in time your mind and body will instinctively know what it needs. You have huge individual wounds to heal first before you can even start to even entertain rebuilding trust with this man. With that in mind I would propose a ‘gap year’ - that you need to continue to live separately so you can both explore what you need and want from the next chapter of your lives and if this marriage can deliver it.

I would practice saying ‘No’ to him as often as suits you just to see his true colours. He seems like a man who has lived in an entitled, arrogant and delusional way for many years - putting all of his needs first. I wonder if he has any capacity to sustainably adapt.

IMHO she is not interested and he has done the maths if you separate - and they are his motives in seeking to rekindle the marriage.

I do feel like we are moving forward. And he has said words to that effect, but I tend to agree with you here, sadly. Food for thought.

DH thinks his role in MC is to clarify and justify that was nothing, it meant nothing, and it is just the hobby blah blah at every opportunity - the counsellor will remind him that it doesn't matter what he thought it was, but it looked like XYZ to your wife...

Someone posted in this thread that "he will use kindness as a weapon" and they were spot on. BUT I BRING HER TEA IN THE MORNING, LOOK, SEE, SHE IS MY PRIORITY!! This was challenged by the MC too, and honestly it's been a real eye opener for DH, for both of us actually.

Been thinking of you @FourAndFive . Lots of positives in your updates but I think you're right that his insistence on justifying rather than taking responsibility and being accountable is a bar he's yet to reach

A trip away is tricky as it'll either help or magnify things. For us it really did help. We went off for a quiet break the four of us about 10 weeks in. It gave us space from all of the day to day grind and we kept it a very quiet break so no sightseeing just hanging out just the four us and enjoying each others company. There were still moments of lots of tears from me but also new happy moments that we desperately needed.

@Madchest Sustainably adapt - love that. Has he got what it takes? Have we? We managed for years - I have supported him, he has definitely supported me - so much to think about here. Thank you.

IMHO she is not interested and he has done the maths if you separate - and they are his motives in seeking to rekindle the marriage.

I wont tolerate a marriage built on this, if there is any whiff of this, I'm out.

I am glad you're ok OP, or as well as you can be. I really hope he appreciates your patience in putting up with all this and the immense effort you're putting into keeping your marriage.

I am anxious - but positive. We need it - the break away from the daily grind, some sea air and quiet.

Do we want this? Is this the right thing to do? These are the things I can't ask with any meaning alongside all the other noise.

I think with the break away there will be that pressure… the sharing of a room after so much physical and emotional distance. It will almost be like going away for the first time with a new person in a way. I think it is the next step though before he moves in.

I think before you take these next steps you really need to ask if you want him anymore? After all the work you’ve done and all the sadness you experienced, you’ve kind of won the battle but do you still want him anymore? The waves you get are betrayal trauma … they will be triggered by music, memory, a comment and very likely his bloody hobby! Good luck x

I think its especially hard to make any decisions when everything around you reminds you of whats happened and the pain of it and puts all the memories you've built together into question.
I still stand firm that I had a marriage before and a marriage after and the two are independent of each other in my mind now.
Part of making the new marriage worth working for was starting to build those new memories that belonged just to us.
I know the decades of old memories were just us too but they somehow feel tainted by his choice. The new ones are just about us.
And sea air is never a bad thing!

Do you both need a break away from the daily grind? Maybe you do - you are the one who’s trust has been shattered and who has then worked hard to keep the family and household plates spinning whilst he is off living the single life gazing at his navel.

Why don’t you take a week or two away on your own to walk in the beach, swim, read, rest and eat nourishing food? That would help replenish and rebalance you before you start investing your depleted and finite emotional energy in rebuilding the relationship.

Maybe also go through the exercise with him about how you would allocate assets if you were to split - it’s an academic / paper exercise for you but it would be revealing to see how he reacts and deals with it.

@FourAndFive I wish you all the luck in the world but I fear this will always hang over you. It will come back in waves and you'll never feel the same about him again. I too think you need to get away on your own. If he's with you he'll be like a performing seal trying to prove his love for you. He doesn't deserve you. Again, good luck in what ever you decide to do.