Something isn't right thread #2

[FourAndFive]

Thanks so much for all your help and support. I can't believe the first thread is full - there isn’t a huge amount to update on right now, but I am looking forward to the future with my head held high, whatever the outcome. I'll keep posting.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5391850-something-isnt-right-emotional-affair-or-just-friends?page=1

Good for you. What a prick he is.

Well done for being so strong @FourAndFive !

I'm so glad he's coming to his senses but that's really only day 1 of your new marriage (if you want it to be), he's got a lot or work to do.

I often say to my dh that there's a lot of work to do just to get back to zero in terms of trust and feeling really loved. The sad fact is that the old relationship is gone and the new starts on a deficit .

Your dh will have to prove to you that he really understands his issues, the damage he's done to you and is willing to put the work in.

Don't feel bad that he's sad. It's a consequence of his own actions. You've treated him with more love and kindness than he ever deserved x

@FourAndFive , you are amazing!. Well done you.
Stay strong!

"she has to know" - yes. He could just block her number or perhaps text something like I feel this friendship has become inappropriate and therefore it is better if we have no contact going forward before blocking her number.

Unfortunately your trust in him has gone, It will be hard to rebuild from here and perhaps the counselling should focus on whether you can move on from this.

I'm glad you were able to tell him properly. Good for you.
Interesting how he responded to your indifference, no longer being seen as the main character obviously rattled him.
In my experience dealing with a "main character," once you've seen their true flawed nature, all their charisma/ whatever just drops away, you see right through them and they just seem pathetic. Not sure if that will apply to you, but from that moment on I had no feelings for them at all, I felt like I had loved a fake persona. They weren't who I thought they were.
However hard he tries, you'll see him differently now. He'll find that hard to understand hence him saying "you've gone backwards," when actually you've gone massively forwards.

It’s the indifference really that gets me. And him
thinking you would give in over time. You were in so much pain and still are. Please stop feeling sad for him though. He doesn’t deserve it. Start writing down what you need right now to feel safe and secure and explore that in marriage counselling.
Don’t let him home without concrete agreement and actions.

@FourAndFive I am happy for you but it’s bitter sweet as it should have happened months ago. I really hope he makes it up to you and that it’s worth it in the end.

The reason I asked was not because of guilt. It’s to show how completely reasonable you are and how entirely unusual this situation is that you needed to ask him to stop seeing her.

You are 100% in the right here. You have never acted like this before in 25 YEARS.

You are doing it now because their relationship is inappropriate and is interfering with your marriage. You are allowed to do this. It’s YOUR marriage too.

Also it’s not some pattern of behaviour
of some crazy jealous wife, people know you. You have shown yourself to be a reasonable and supportive wife. Letting him off to do whatever he likes.
If you now suddenly put down a boundary, anyone who knows you will know you are doing it with good reason. Don’t let him get into your head any more. He hasn’t a leg to stand on.

You are right.

Do you still like, admire and respect him? If not now, do you think you could in future?

The elephant in the room is that events like these usually change the way we see our partners. We see their flaws and sometimes those flaws feel pretty repulsive. Its also a slippery slope where you find yourself noticing more flaws and irritations that you hadn't noticed or hadn't bothered you before.

You might be able to rebuild the trust, you might not. But in my experience, trying to love this new (worse) person is even harder.

Of course, we are all flawed humans, and maybe it sounds unfair to give up on a marriage because your spouse isnt' 'perfect' any more. But its so sad when that cornerstone of a relationship - the admiration and respect you feel for each other, is damaged. Its so hard to repair.

What a horrible experience you had. It mst feel like vomiting up poison.

Well done you for fronting up to his continual gaslighting and DARVO-ing.

It’s interesting that you will likely now see all his next manoeuvres as 100% self-selfing.

He comes across as a grandiose, delusional, arrogant and entitled buffoon with a significant capacity for manipulation.

Keep observing and attending to your feelings - these are a barometer of your core ‘knowing’ - I suspect you have inadvertently forced down your true feelings to support/indulge his over the years. Your feelings will ebb and flow between hurt, anger, rage, confusion, fear, obligation, guilt etc. Allow yourself to explore and express these emotions and then trust that over time they will settle and clarity will emerge as to what’s the best way forward.

You are working through this - focus on you and what’s tolerable to you.

@TennerTuesday It's a good question. Yes and no?

I'm a bit scared of the question, actually. I smile when I think of him, but then scowl when I remember what is going on. I think to tell him something I know he'll find funny, but then I don't because we're not on those terms at the moment.

There is so much stuff to work through if we get that far, but honestly I think the first elephant in the room is the obsessive, self-indulgent hobby that has been woven into every facet of our lives - the reason he lost his mind in the first place. How I deal with that, I don't know. But I'm jumping too far ahead. One step at a time.

I'm absolutely exhausted.

He actually thought he was giving you time to come round!
I know it feels exhausting but he needed to hear it all from you.

You feel guilty because you've probably spent years feeling responsible (being made to feel responsible) for his emotions.
Both sociatal and personal conditioning that says:
Keep the man happy, don't rock the boat, he means well etc

You are reclaiming your own life and how you want it to be. It may be with him in it or may not, but you are not responsible for how he feels about it.

All of that @Madchest - its so simple when it's written in black and white.

I suspect you have inadvertently forced down your true feelings to support/indulge his over the years.

I think this is spot on. Subconsciously, this is exactly what I have done. Wow.

It's not real life and he needed a kick in the bollocks a long time ago.

I think it’s important though they are intertwined that you deal with both issues separately and specifically. The first one being the hobby friend and the second the actual all consuming hobby itself.
It sounds like you made a lot of sacrifices for him and likely did all the heavy lifting when it came to the dc. Probably at the sacrifice of your rest and leisure time.

It's the frog in the hot pot @FourAndFive . The temperature goes up gradually so we don't feel the danger.
If you decide to move forward with dh, this could be one of the positives to come out of the situation. When you look back at how much you bent and compromised and put up with for his benefit you'll be horrified - and that's taking his 'friend' out of the equation.
You'll be able to set new boundaries and gain new freedoms for yourself now - with or without him.

Oh OP, he's more tjan a husband, I think he is a bit of an addiction, in the unhealthiest way.

He is such a vain, self important twat, who really believes his self serving bullshit to you.

He clearly believes you and your children deserve to be no more that bit players in his great Act.

A good therapist, one with addiction within relationships would serve you well

You will only see the true him when you have gone cold turkey on this toxic relationship.

You are worth 10 of this pathetic sad loser, chasing a younger.

Every tennis and golf club I have played at has more than one of them.

They are easily spotted. No doubt his pitiful behaviour has been noted.

I really, really hope so. I can't get ahead with the 'clean slate' just yet, but things will be different thats for sure - either way.

Just had a jolt of positivity there too, so thank you. Things will be okay, either way. I wont except anything else.

I think his ‘hobby’/obsessiveness and selfish behaviour before this situation with the OW needs to be ‘seen’ and addressed as part of your decision about your future.

Has he agreed to continue couple’s counselling? Or has he bailed because the counsellor didn’t say what he thought they’d say?

If he is still all ‘main character’ and DARVO about the hobby , including his woe about not being able to do it to the extent he wants, you can likely expect more of the same treatment from him.

Well done OP for getting all that off your chest. Time will tell if it makes any actual difference to him and his behaviour. Step back now you have told him exactly what's what. You need to see if he can lead you both to a new beginning in your marriage. He will need to step up, make decisions, be honest and transparent, and work hard to regain your trust.

Don't step in and do it for him. Don't tell him what he needs to do. You need to see him take responsibility for this or you'll never be able to trust or love him again.

And honestly, maybe even if he does step up, it'll be too late. Do what's right for YOU, OP. His sadness or grief is self-inflicted. And he wasn't bothered when you were the one drowning in sadness and anxiety, was he?

@Dozer the counselling will continue. I'm sure our therapist will be overjoyed at this new development.

I want to hear him say everything he said to me in front of the MC. I need to hear it repeated to a third party, what he is going to do about it. It gives it roots, and validity.

@FourAndFive no wonder you are exhausted.
Ot sounds very positive and I admire your strength in sticking to your boundaries and setting your stall out for what you want your new relationship with him to be.
DO NOT feel guilty. I understand it completely, I had never, ever asked my husband to give up anytime his career before, never thought it was a fair thing to do to anyone. But I had to have proof that I was worth more than the fancy job (he could easily get another) in a fancy city and the fancy (in his head) affair version of him. The only way he could prove it was to make a gesture that was the opposite of selfishness and self-serving: I needed to see him do something that made me the priority, not him. Giving up the affair was easy, he was in the process of doing it anyway, it wasn’t enough. I wasn’t asking him to give up his career, just that job. I felt terrible at first asking for that, he loved the job and the kudos that went with it, but he told me I shouldn’t feel bad, he admitted he had ruined it for himself, could absolutely see why I needed it and that it was more than fair considering what he’d done and he deserved far worse.
I hope there’s a chance for you and your husband, I’m hoping that his attitude and focus is shifting to where it ought to be, on you and in his marriage. Don’t feel bad either if you decide nothing is ever going to mend this, sometimes even an about-turn just isn’t enough.
If you want to give this a try, then do, safe in the knowledge that you can change your mind any time you like, you would never need any more justification. He’s bloody lucky he’s even being spoken to.
Think through carefully what you want going forward and tell him it’s that or nothing. I had to make my ultimatum in the knowledge that I’d be kidding myself that I could have stood him going back to that job. Make sure you know and he knows where the goalposts are.

Also be prepared for the rollercoaster of push-me-pull-you. You go from I still love you to I still hate you in seconds. It’s normal.
Michelle Mays “The Betrayal Bind” explains attachment theory beautifully, that’s what’s at work with the crazy wanting to be near/ pulling away stuff.

Well bloody done for giving him what he needed to hear OP! Just goes to show his attendance with counselling and taking space was never being done with the right intentions- just waiting for you to backtrack.

I'm glad he's realised the gravity of the situation but talk is cheap and actions need to follow. As you say talk it through with your MC but his message to cut contact with her ought to take accountability and not just "the wife is making me do this".