Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Something isn't right thread #2

856 replies

FourAndFive · 21/08/2025 11:18

Thanks so much for all your help and support. I can't believe the first thread is full - there isn’t a huge amount to update on right now, but I am looking forward to the future with my head held high, whatever the outcome. I'll keep posting.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5391850-something-isnt-right-emotional-affair-or-just-friends?page=1

Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends? | Mumsnet

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance. I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair a...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5391850-something-isnt-right-emotional-affair-or-just-friends?page=1

OP posts:
Cruisinforcroissant · 13/10/2025 17:20

Pairs ice skating

CanIgetARosePinkFrappucino · 13/10/2025 19:18

Secondstart1001 · 11/10/2025 04:20

I get what you are saying from your last post. I think most people’s outrage in this post is because your husband doesn’t deserve you. It’s unfair you have been wronged yet you still show him understanding and respect. This would be ok if he in turn showed you transparency to get closure. The more this goes on the more it will chip away at you. Trust me, the unanswered questions though you know the truth in your heart with drive you crazy. You won’t be the same person as you walk out of this storm.

As a divorced person with children I can tell you, it’s ok to keep into the good times, the family pictures ect. Those things don’t become a lie because the present situation has changed. But I think there needs to be a time where you accept he’s changed, his core values and all priorities have changed. And that you can’t do anything about the fundamental change in him.

. My ex was abusive and he also cheated on me with a work “ friend” who also baby sat our children. Honestly the amount of gaslighting I underwent. I became a size 4 at one point from the stress of it all. At some point as I’ve said upthread, you need to start choosing you. There is life after divorce. I’m happily with someone else now, someone that treats me less like the centre of their earth, not an option. But the damage is done for me. Although he hasn’t done anything do doubt him, I have a hyper vigilance about me. Sometimes it comes out in the relationship or sometimes I just sit with it alone. The longer you leave a dark light in your life, it does sadly become a bigger part of you.

This is so true
I sit with things alone, some things don't need verbalising

CanIgetARosePinkFrappucino · 13/10/2025 19:19

Whatever happens, we are privilliged to read , honestly
Some of us have been over various betrayals

Overwhelmedandunderfed · 14/10/2025 07:14

Thewookiemustgo · 10/10/2025 14:48

“He knows what he has done, how it looked. I see him in pain, wanting the future to be okay for us but also wanting his hobby friend in his life, albeit under a totally different set of 'rules'.”
@FourAndFive my husband had an affair. It was full on, physical, so different to your husband. However, I believe that your husband has had an emotional affair with this woman, so to me at least, I feel there is a parallel.
Because I love my husband, even though he was a total shit at the time, his horror at himself and shame/ anguish at what he’d done afterwards, desperately wanting the whole episode to go away and desperately wanting us to be ok, I was moved and saw his pain, even in the middle of mine.
However, his pain, like your husband’s, was a self-inflicted choice and my pain, like yours, was at my spouse’s hands.
I had genuine compassion, but at the same time I was very much aware that he might use that in the same way he used my trust: to manipulate me and the situation.
We are still together, but had he even hinted that he wanted to remain friends with OW or continue to work at the same place, I’d have ended it. His word was worthless and only actions held any weight. It was a non-negotiable for me. Not because I thought if he stayed there or talked to her that it would start again, I’m wise enough to know that nothing would prevent that happening if he wanted to, but because at the time her being in our life or him wanting her in any possible way, was out of the question for me, forever.
He was different in that it was a no brainer for him, he wanted out of the affair himself and nothing more to do with her or any of it.
Until your husband accepts that his relationship with her was totally inappropriate and takes full responsibility for that, understanding that in the light of that, any more contact is totally unreasonable and unnecessary, he is not a safe partner for you. Until he demonstrates in words and deeds that to him, you are more important than her and the hobby, he is not a safe partner for you. Work this all out together, absolutely, if that’s what you want to do. It is possible if he does his work on it and shoulders the weight of the load he put on yours.
Just bear in mind that to me, his pain appears here as him wrestling with how to maintain what’s good for him, not wrestling with the shame of the impact the realisation of what he has done to you.
Until that changes, you need to be aware that the penny still hasn’t dropped and although you feel sorry for his pain, it is his to bear, work through and also to set aside, to help you heal from yours.

Edited

I love you for writing this. I don’t think a lot of women are honest about what they would do and we need honesty or it’s pointless.

JimmyGiraffe · 14/10/2025 08:52

I don’t think a lot of women are honest about what they would do and we need honesty or it’s pointless.

Absolutely. 99% of people state they would walk away, but when it happens to you .......

NettleTea · 14/10/2025 09:21

I love you for writing this. I don’t think a lot of women are honest about what they would do and we need honesty or it’s pointless.

absolutely this

How many times have we read an OP saying ' I know what I would advise my friend if she told me this, but......"

Its easy to see what needs to be done when you are not emotionally involved. But when you have years of shared history, when your heart is involved, its a very different thing, even if that heart is currently broken. Add in the complexities of children, mortgages, outside support - this is the system that has kept women in unsatisafactory relationships for millenia, its better than it was, but its still not as easy for a woman to walk away (often with kids) than a man, she is still likely to have less money to do so - she is more likely to earn less and will be responsible for more, and need a bigger house. And there is a very big threat in trying to get a man, who is physically larger and stronger, to leave, if he doesnt want to.

OP knows her situation best. The bloke is a shit. he has been self indulgant to the extreme, in many more ways than this latest, BUT OP knows what she needs to make the decision as to whether this thing still has wheels, or they have truly come off the cart. Whether he is actually truly remorseful, has learned from the experience, and is likely to change in his considerations and outlook if it carries on. Or whether fundamentally he is who he is, selfish to the core, and is just hoping that OP will stop harping on so that after a period of feigned change, he can just get back to the status quo. Or a balance of each, that only OP can decide. She is at least, in the driving seat having got him out of the house.

Untangling all this takes time. its sticky and messy and there are many strings to follow and untie.

Thewookiemustgo · 14/10/2025 09:27

@JimmyGiraffe I would have bet my house that if my husband ever had an affair he’d be out of the door immediately to join all his stuff in bin bags on the front lawn. The right or wrong of it is absolutely black and white but deciding to stay or leave never is.
But then again me and everybody who knows him and us as a couple would have bet our houses that he would never, ever in a million years be ‘the kind of guy’ that would have an affair either.
One thing I’ve learned is there’s no ‘kind of guy’ or ‘kind of woman’ who you would guess might be unfaithful but the rest definitely aren’t. There are just men and women. Maybe it feels safer to believe that there is a definition or a ‘type’ to help us avoid being betrayed, because the players are easier to spot so we can avoid them. The vast majority hide very well in plain sight.
The vast majority are ordinary people who never thought they’d ever do it either.

OchreRaven · 14/10/2025 09:47

Thewookiemustgo · 14/10/2025 09:27

@JimmyGiraffe I would have bet my house that if my husband ever had an affair he’d be out of the door immediately to join all his stuff in bin bags on the front lawn. The right or wrong of it is absolutely black and white but deciding to stay or leave never is.
But then again me and everybody who knows him and us as a couple would have bet our houses that he would never, ever in a million years be ‘the kind of guy’ that would have an affair either.
One thing I’ve learned is there’s no ‘kind of guy’ or ‘kind of woman’ who you would guess might be unfaithful but the rest definitely aren’t. There are just men and women. Maybe it feels safer to believe that there is a definition or a ‘type’ to help us avoid being betrayed, because the players are easier to spot so we can avoid them. The vast majority hide very well in plain sight.
The vast majority are ordinary people who never thought they’d ever do it either.

See I find this terrifying — to think there are no red flags and someone you trust could lie repeatedly to your face without you picking up on anything wrong. When your husband had an affair did you not think there was anything going on with him / wrong before he confessed? Did he have any of the red flags?

Thewookiemustgo · 14/10/2025 09:49

@Overwhelmedandunderfed I live by honesty. I can’t think of anything more damaging to a relationship than lies. If anyone had asked me what I thought the most damaging thing you can do to a relationship is to have sex with somebody else, I would have agreed in a heartbeat.
It’s never been that or the OW for me that did the worst damage, it was the lies and betrayal.
If you haven’t got mutual honesty and accountability in a relationship you haven’t got trust, and that’s no way to live.
If you are able to lie to yourself to excuse yourself for things you have done which you know are wrong, or lie to yourself to give yourself permission to do what you know is wrong and avoid personal accountability, you are not even in a real relationship with yourself, let alone a partner.
Lies cause terrible damage in every area of our lives.
There’s a book called “Mistakes Were Made, But Not By Me.” by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson. Fascinating read, ultimately about lying and deception in all areas of life: relationships, politics, business, scientific studies commissioned by drug companies…..it explains how morally upright and ethical people can (usually little by little) find themselves doing and saying the most unethical and dishonest things, and never, ever thought they would.
Lying always starts small, whether it’s to ourselves or others and doesn’t feel so bad in the beginning, but any poor behaviour that is tolerated will continue, and what is allowed to continue, escalates.
Honesty with ourselves and others is harder and takes discipline, but a ton of clear conscience feels far lighter than an ounce of guilt.

3luckystars · 14/10/2025 09:56

Thewookiemustgo · 14/10/2025 09:27

@JimmyGiraffe I would have bet my house that if my husband ever had an affair he’d be out of the door immediately to join all his stuff in bin bags on the front lawn. The right or wrong of it is absolutely black and white but deciding to stay or leave never is.
But then again me and everybody who knows him and us as a couple would have bet our houses that he would never, ever in a million years be ‘the kind of guy’ that would have an affair either.
One thing I’ve learned is there’s no ‘kind of guy’ or ‘kind of woman’ who you would guess might be unfaithful but the rest definitely aren’t. There are just men and women. Maybe it feels safer to believe that there is a definition or a ‘type’ to help us avoid being betrayed, because the players are easier to spot so we can avoid them. The vast majority hide very well in plain sight.
The vast majority are ordinary people who never thought they’d ever do it either.

I totally agree with this.
i saw a video once and the psychologist woman was saying that of course there are absolute dogs that have constant affairs and cheat, but (and by no means was she excusing affairs) she said most people who have affairs are not cheating dodgy, obvious creeps.

They are actually happy in their marriage but are ‘people pleasers’ in the extreme, and afraid to show their real self in their marriage to please their spouse. They stop speaking up, they silence themselves to keep the peace and not rock the boat, but then eventually they go elsewhere for this need to be met. It’s extreme ‘people pleasing’ and trying to keep the peace, and an inability to be their ‘real’ self in a relationship that makes them seek it elsewhere. I thought it was interesting anyway.

Thewookiemustgo · 14/10/2025 10:32

OchreRaven · 14/10/2025 09:47

See I find this terrifying — to think there are no red flags and someone you trust could lie repeatedly to your face without you picking up on anything wrong. When your husband had an affair did you not think there was anything going on with him / wrong before he confessed? Did he have any of the red flags?

Show quote history

It’s terrifying and I can’t begin to describe the shock. To have no grip on reality is appalling.
Nobody believes you if you say “Nothing” but it’s true. Nothing, absolutely nothing, was different. I turned no blind eye because there was nothing to ignore.
Your husband gets a new job, in a city sixty miles away from home and commutes by train. He leaves in the morning, smiling, kisses you as usual, disappears to work, gets in in the evening, smiling, kisses you. Chatty, eats dinner, phone left where it usually is. Chats to kids/ watches tv etc. Sex life normal, takes you out as normal, books holidays, routine normal.
Rinse and repeat. Nothing.
Ot was only about a couple of weeks before I found out, that odd things started to appear. It had continued undetected for a year because she’d always acquiesced to his timetable and he could completely shift from one compartment of his life to the other.
The rules were she could see him during the day and early evening or nothing, with the odd random later evening, which could be explained away as ‘somebody’s leaving do’ or ‘somebody’s birthday drinks’.
The affair had got crazy by then and he had started taking more risks to appease pressure put on by her to go on holiday with her. He bargained her demands for a holiday together down to one Saturday night in the city they worked in.
Because it was a Saturday the two worlds collided. He couldn’t deal with that. It forced him to see what he was actually doing. Somehow because it all happened at work he could separate the situations and not see the impact. That Saturday morning, leaving us to specifically be with her, held up a very uncomfortable mirror to the reality of it and he couldn’t stand it, guilt finally killing him, he was acting really weirdly, something was ‘off’ and I could see it. He said retrospectively that the guilt he was forced to feel was killing him and what he had been looking forward to became a trap he’d chosen, designed and constructed all by himself. Nobody else to blame.
Either I was going to want to kill him and blow his life up if I found out he went to the hotel, or she might decide to tell me and blow his life up if he pissed her off and didn’t. The fateful decision was to go, please her and hopefully get away with it so that I never found out, then he could end it quietly with no revenge or drama involved. If that had happened I wouldn’t have known to this day what he did.
The pain of realising he was a prize shit was amplified by the fact that it was all his fault and he deserved whatever he got and he couldn’t hide it very well that morning. That’s the weird stuff I was seeing but I didn’t know at the time.
By the time I went to bed after the kids had gone to bed I just knew. No evidence other than him not being himself. Don’t ask me how, it just popped into my head whilst I was watching telly. I wasn’t even thinking about it.
Possibly the most hellish night of my life.
It could happen to absolutely anyone. I’ll never say ‘never’ again.
Trust is always a risk but you can’t have relationships without it.

Thewookiemustgo · 14/10/2025 10:58

Anyhow, apologies that this thread is getting a bit derailed.
Just hope some of it helps OP to see the mechanics of what’s going on.
None of it, however, no matter how much we understand it, or can see the whys/ hows of it, ever excuses a darned thing.
He needs to get honest and accountable.

Keyhooks · 14/10/2025 11:07

Lots of good points above and indeed I do think some marriages can survive infidelity.
I certainly wouldn't end my long marriage on a skirmish, I definitely think you can look at the whole person.

I suppose my deal breaker would be the children, that they were protected from this.

OP has been amazingly level headed and forgiving herself, but her children have had all her efforts for a good childhood blown up by a deeply pathetic selfish man.

Their children have seen and heard far too much.

THAT is what I believe to be the deal breaker in all of this.

I think the OP needs to carefully decide on what she wants HER long term modelling to be to her children.

Overwhelmedandunderfed · 14/10/2025 12:02

Keyhooks · 14/10/2025 11:07

Lots of good points above and indeed I do think some marriages can survive infidelity.
I certainly wouldn't end my long marriage on a skirmish, I definitely think you can look at the whole person.

I suppose my deal breaker would be the children, that they were protected from this.

OP has been amazingly level headed and forgiving herself, but her children have had all her efforts for a good childhood blown up by a deeply pathetic selfish man.

Their children have seen and heard far too much.

THAT is what I believe to be the deal breaker in all of this.

I think the OP needs to carefully decide on what she wants HER long term modelling to be to her children.

Hasn’t she just? She’s doing great IMO. Holding it together for her children, being level headed all whilst hurting. I’m genuinely proud of her whatever she decides to do.

Crikeyalmighty · 14/10/2025 12:32

@Thewookiemustgo I know we have spoken about this before as I too stayed - in my Hs case it was completely out of character and like you no red flags - the only factor was that we had a lot of personal stuff going wrong at that time, business issues, his mum dying and he admitted it was something ‘pleasant going on’ that gave him a lift at generally shitty time and when it came out ( and it appears to have been purely an emotional affair although I guess I will never know) he was utterly disgusted at himself -

Secondstart1001 · 14/10/2025 14:29

@Thewookiemustgo thank you for sharing that and it’s really scary how you found out. You must have been beside yourself that night. It’s a lesson for all of us really and sadly :(

Original poster
FourAndFive · 14/10/2025 16:55

Please do continue to share your stories, they are exactly what real life is. I am constantly inspired and lifted by these shared experiences. They give me, and I'm sure others, certainty that life is bloody tricky to navigate sometimes and it is okay.

So so many of you are helping me more than I could ever tell you - thank you. Sending you all my love, you are badasses. Make no mistake.

Today is a bad, sad and angry day. A day where I've read all the messages again to help to help shake me up - I feel passive (someone up thread mentioned this), and that is so unlike me. I am tired of it.

I am sick of his self indulgent bullshit. His excuses "but what if she's there" - his fucking untouchable hobby, and his fucking wonderful seemingly untouchable hobby friend.

Today is a day where I fear he will end up with her regardless of our years and our promises to each other.

A day where I want to call her and tell her what a prick he has been to his wife and kids, and if she could just kindly leave him alone never speak to him again, thanks - or just have him actually! Jolene can keep him, right? Even Dolly said so.

A day where I am sad that my lovely home is in limbo, that he isn't in it because of another woman.

Like posters have said - this is the new him, completely selfish and blind to what we actually had. He will never be the same to me again. It was never just a bump in the road, a lapse in judgement. It was a sinkhole and we can't seem to climb out of it.

I never, ever saw it coming. Not until it was here. Not him. No way. What a shame.

Sorry. This is a pity party isn't it? I guess we all need one now and again. They happen to the best of us, don't they.

OP posts:
Shalimarsdream · 14/10/2025 16:59

FourAndFive · 14/10/2025 16:55

Please do continue to share your stories, they are exactly what real life is. I am constantly inspired and lifted by these shared experiences. They give me, and I'm sure others, certainty that life is bloody tricky to navigate sometimes and it is okay.

So so many of you are helping me more than I could ever tell you - thank you. Sending you all my love, you are badasses. Make no mistake.

Today is a bad, sad and angry day. A day where I've read all the messages again to help to help shake me up - I feel passive (someone up thread mentioned this), and that is so unlike me. I am tired of it.

I am sick of his self indulgent bullshit. His excuses "but what if she's there" - his fucking untouchable hobby, and his fucking wonderful seemingly untouchable hobby friend.

Today is a day where I fear he will end up with her regardless of our years and our promises to each other.

A day where I want to call her and tell her what a prick he has been to his wife and kids, and if she could just kindly leave him alone never speak to him again, thanks - or just have him actually! Jolene can keep him, right? Even Dolly said so.

A day where I am sad that my lovely home is in limbo, that he isn't in it because of another woman.

Like posters have said - this is the new him, completely selfish and blind to what we actually had. He will never be the same to me again. It was never just a bump in the road, a lapse in judgement. It was a sinkhole and we can't seem to climb out of it.

I never, ever saw it coming. Not until it was here. Not him. No way. What a shame.

Sorry. This is a pity party isn't it? I guess we all need one now and again. They happen to the best of us, don't they.

I disagree, I think today sounds like a strong day for you.

Sometimes getting angry about things does clarify a situation. So take from today what you need.

You are doing a fantastic job of navigating this on your terms.

marketday · 14/10/2025 17:00

Having been in this position, I'm glad you are getting angry. Anger is a great motivator and I got a lot done to organise my new life without him whilst I was still livid! Not telling you what to do, just saying you can get a lot done right now whatever you decide.

Allthegoodonesareg0ne · 14/10/2025 17:04

You're allowed a pity party @FourAndFive - I'll even bring the wine!

Everything you've said is true. Be mad, it's ok. You can be mad, sad, hopeful, furious frustrated, happy or all of the above in any given day or in any given moment.

If he hasn't realised by now how dangerous it is for him to let you see for yourself what a strong amazing woman you are then he's a fool.

Each day you're in this new life, even though I know how much it hurts to be there, you're showing yourself and the kids just how strong you are. You'll be happy again, really really happy, with or without him.

Today's bad day is showing you that there are aspects or being with him that you are better off without, so either he does better or you certainly will.

You're brilliant.

Secondstart1001 · 14/10/2025 17:08

I was thinking of this thread off the back of another one where the husband has become infatuated with a female younger gym goer. A hobby is meant to enrich a life but all I’ve read on here is devastation and it’s mainly because men are not loyal. I am not going to say they have no self control as this is an excuse we make for how pathetic these men are!

@FourAndFive what has caused these floods of feeling and fears? Has something happened over the weekend or is it the lack of activity on your husband’s part to fight for you . I do fear we this point when he says he misses you, it’s as a friend :( I am so angry for you.

Thewookiemustgo · 14/10/2025 17:30

Crikeyalmighty · 14/10/2025 12:32

@Thewookiemustgo I know we have spoken about this before as I too stayed - in my Hs case it was completely out of character and like you no red flags - the only factor was that we had a lot of personal stuff going wrong at that time, business issues, his mum dying and he admitted it was something ‘pleasant going on’ that gave him a lift at generally shitty time and when it came out ( and it appears to have been purely an emotional affair although I guess I will never know) he was utterly disgusted at himself -

Absolutely. There had been a shit ton of stuff in our lives before this, and stuff in his which I won’t go into but it absolutely caused the need for validation thing.
Thing is, I was there the whole time supporting him emotionally and during the ton of crap going in in my life at that time (lost a best friend who unexpectedly passed away, lost a parent after dementia, sibling had cancer) I somehow managed to keep my knickers on when other men were nice to me, sympathised and gave me validation.

Secondstart1001 · 14/10/2025 18:01

Also @FourAndFive your threads are not for only your updates. It’s here to provide emotional support and I think up to this point you’ve kept your emotions contained as you’ve been protective of your husband, even if it’s subconsciously. A lot of us understand how you feel. Your husband was your safe place, he was part of helping you heal when you were upset and now he is the main cause of your distress, you have found yourself without your constant, your rock.

I do think the stories help. It’s sad that the price we pay for love is betrayal. I sometimes think marriage is not a forever thing anymore.

Beenwhereyouareagain · 14/10/2025 18:10

@FourAndFive

"A day where I want to call her and tell her what a prick he has been to his wife and kids, and if she could just kindly leave him alone never speak to him again, thanks - or just have him actually! Jolene can keep him, right? Even Dolly said so."

Best idea yet! ♥️

Thewookiemustgo · 14/10/2025 18:27

@FourAndFive honesty about how you feel, self awareness and a good understanding of one of the shittest shit sandwiches served to you from life’s buffet is not a pity party. You are justifiably angry, hurt and unutterably sad. It’s ok and totally justified to say it out loud. Easy for me to say, but if he wants her over you and the life and home you have together, let him have her and she’s welcome to that version of him. Tell him that loud and clear. Boundaries need teeth.
If my husband had chosen or moped about anyone or anything after his affair that wasn’t me or the kids, then he could bugger off and have them and I told him so. He’d made more than enough choices which sidelined us already. I told him if he wanted her he could have her, no fuss about it, I’d even pack for him, but there would be no coming back, ever. Not even if he changed his mind within an hour. I told him “Choose to go through that door and you won’t ever be coming back as my husband again. Consider yourself divorced.” I’d be done with him and I meant it.
These things are too huge to ever be a bump in the road. A bump in the road might damage a tyre but it rarely totals the car.
You are absolutely right to call it a sinkhole. Superb analogy which with your permission I will immediately steal. Just like a sinkhole, his behaviour around the hobby and his stupid ‘friend’ have been slowly carving out a huge hole under the foundations of your marriage. It’s finally given way to expose the gaping hole in his priorities and his soul.
My husband’s affair was a one off, but it certainly wasn’t a ‘bump’ either. If it was a bump, he chose to drive over it repeatedly and chose it over me and the kids time and time again until the solid, real life he was undermining collapsed. He fortunately came to his senses himself when he looked up from where he landed at the bottom of the hole he’d created and saw how far he’d fallen.
You’re right to have had enough of what you correctly refer to as his selfish and self indulgent bullshit.
The sinkhole you are in is of his making. He’s the one who should reach in, pull you out and save you and then he should be the one to fill in and fix the hole, not you.
The good news is that getting out of the sinkhole doesn’t depend on his choice to pull you out. You can decide you’ve had enough, climb out yourself and leave him to look for you in the now empty void his life will have become without you in it. I think he is still in La-la land about what he’s done and doesn’t think you’ll follow through. Tell him loud and clear now and please don’t be scared, you are amazing and you can do it, you really can. If he wants something else nothing you could do or say would ever stop him anyway, so hard boundaries won’t change his mind. The sad truth is that dithering from him shows that he really hasn’t thought about what he stands to lose, or he thinks you’re bluffing so he has time to fence-sit, hope you’ll eventually cave in and let him have Holly bloody Hobby and his crochet group or whatever it is that’s so sodding important to him. Stupid, stupid man and brilliant, brilliant you.