Something isn't right thread #2

[FourAndFive]

Thanks so much for all your help and support. I can't believe the first thread is full - there isn’t a huge amount to update on right now, but I am looking forward to the future with my head held high, whatever the outcome. I'll keep posting.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5391850-something-isnt-right-emotional-affair-or-just-friends?page=1

Thanks for posting your update. I'm not exactly gloating - I think that's your perogative after how hurtful he as been to you - but I am nodding sagely at how things have turned out for him. He thought he was being so clever when really he was being selfish and self-centred. It was never going to end well for him, and it's unfolded rather more quickly than expected.

In your opening post in thread 1 you spoke about his hobby being a genuine obsession. That kind of interest outside of his relationship/family/work/life is selfish - even if it didn't involve any particular other person. Will he continue with the hobby once he's recovered from his injury, or will it prevent him from joining in in the longer term? If he does return, or if he transfers his obsession to a different hobby, what then for you? Will you tolerate that level of distraction when he prioritises his interests above any other? In the current situation, it was a young woman with whom your husband formed a dependant bond, but it could happen with any other hobby enthusiast, and it might feel just as threatening to the closeness of your relationship with him.

My dsis was a tennis 'widow'. But it wasn't just that her dh played a lot, it became his whole life, and his community. One of two key people (similarly middle-aged men) from the tennis club became like gurus in his eyes - not just about tennis, but he aligned his opinions and politics with theirs, was endlessly messaging them. He'd look for memes he thought they like, jokes they'd find funny. He bought expensive hobby equipment to impress them. It was like an infatuation. Eventually it became unsustainable for their marriage, and my dsis left.

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

This is one of my biggest fears, honestly, the impact on our DC. Is what I am doing enough to teach them they don't have to just put up with anything if they're not happy? Or does it show them I am a pushover...? I've been very clear with them about why I think this is the right thing to do and they know if things did escalate again (or if I find out it was physical) I will divorce him without hesitation.

They've told me that they're happy not to be hearing her name, the constant discussions, the gaslighting from him or me being so sad and angry - I'm doing so many things for myself that they love for me (more like forcing myself), and they seem to be thriving.

Preserving relationships during a separation is really hard. I hope they'll come out of it stronger, like their mother will.

It’s very tough and all you can do is take decisions as they arise and the situation evolves. You are 100% doing the right thing by being calm, open and transparent with your DCs (in an age appropriate way) - is your DH doing this?

Its positive that they are expressing their relief not to hear about his obsessions - and they have seen you calmly state a boundary, with a deadline and a consequence which you then enacted so that’s great role-modelling.

Whats the timeline and criteria for his return to the family home?

Exactly! I agree with you. That kind of interest outside of his relationship/family/work/life is selfish - even if it didn't involve any particular other person. Will he continue with the hobby once he's recovered from his injury, or will it prevent him from joining in in the longer term? If he does return, or if he transfers his obsession to a different hobby, what then for you?

Like your dsis being a tennis widow - my H has woven this into every single part of his life, it is constantly discussed wherever we are or whatever we do. At his level, it impresses people, and he LOVES that, he is proud of it - so it will be difficult to navigate. I think he will absolutely find something else to obsess about if injury stops him returning, he can't sit still.

It's not normal. He needs it. She is the same as him. It is/was infatuation.

Given your most recent post it might be worth exploring if your marriage is emotionally fulfilling at all. Maybe the girl was a step too far and he has not been present, connected or sustaining any of your inner life anyway - which you stoically tolerated - but to see him then miraculously find that capacity for emotional intimacy and priority with this young girl must be a deep blow.

I wonder if your own upbringing trained you to expect and tolerate crumbs, not identify or express your own emotional needs? Maybe the girl situation was the straw that broke the camels back for you in that to that date you were tolerating his emotional neglect but after that date you were then burdened by him.

I think you might be at a point where you have nearly raised your DCs - which I expect was a solo effort with this obsessive character always MIA at his hobby - and maybe you might want to think about your emotional wants and needs going forward in the next chapter of your life.

He sounds insufferable, even before this infatuation,
I think too, that as you analyse it now; how he lives, breathes & dreams for his sport, whilst leaving your family by the wayside, Plus, the odious “Lording” about it, his success & performance..
I’d be done.
I’d say , “Oh bore off, Permanently”.

Yeah, I don't really get why you'd even consider taking him back, honestly. You could be single and enjoying spending time with people who respect and like you. Maybe you could meet someone who is capable of loving you. I don't think I would be able to forgive him for his behaviour and honestly I do think it makes you a pushover if you forgive and forget.

Having said that, you are the only one who knows your relationship and if you think it can work, then that's your call. From what you've said, I'd be out. But it really only matters how you feel about it, OP. You're the one who will have to make the decision and live with it.

God I’d just dump him. Life is too short. Sounds like he’s only changed his tune either because of his injury or because she’s blowing cold. I get the impression if she clicked her fingers he’d go running.

At this point he hasn’t made a definitive “choice” so for me I would be done now. It’s been weeks and he’s still been given the priverlage of “choosing”.
As pps have said, maybe you should reevaluate what you’ve accepted in the past. Even if he drops her today, would you still really want him after his emotional intimacy with another woman?

To them he is supporting me and my decision for space and marriage counselling, loves me, wants everything to be okay, things will be different, we just have to work through it etc. Although, he did said to them that he thinks a man of his age can't tell someone else they cant be friends any more... I can't remember if I've mentioned that up thread. My response - in these circumstances it's the only thing you can do prove that we come first. Thankfully the DC's thought that was rubbish too.

Whats the timeline and criteria for his return to the family home?

When it feels right. When the fully penny drops. When he takes full emotional responsibility for the damage he has caused. When he starts to show empathy to me and not her or his hobby. When he does everything he possibly can to distance himself and cut all contact with her.

@FourAndFive he’s really had enough time to consider the above. The penny should have dropped when you asked him to leave. He shouldn’t have a seconds hesitation to chose his wife over a hobby woman. He’s been given weeks and weeks to mull over it: I think you refuse to see that when he had to chose you, he didn’t ( I’m sorry if that sounds harsh but it’s the reality).

What's the reason he's given that she's been cooler with him? (If you can believe anything he says at this point).

I hear you, I do.

I'm no pushover. I'm doing what I think is best for now, and that is all I can do.

In all our years together he has never done anything like this before, we've had a solid, fun, adventurous, loving marriage. If we do reconcile, and the damage caused turns out to be too much, and we ultimately divorce, then I know I did my best.

OP, from what you have written I would think it is honest and realistic to realise that your children have been hugely impacted by your husbands behaviour.
I think it would be best for you and them to be honest about that.
Your husbands behaviour is really dreadful and will forever impact your children and their memories of their childhood.

That is 100% on your husband.
Best for your children if you acknowledge that.
Best for them as they try to process all that has happened, by acknowledging their upset, disappointment and stress.

Long term acknowledgement by you will help them.

He's a tosser.
As they mature, they will increasingly realise this, painful though it will be for them.

My dad did not take any responsibility emotionally or otherwise. he actually told me his therapist said his behaviour was understandable because I had a teen pregnancy and a chronically ill child. So basically it was my fault he had a midlife crisis.
When my mum was dying he called me bossy as had a random woman at my mums bedside.
Your DH saying to the children I can't be told who I am friends with is so damaging. He is just saying your mum has made a big fuss over nothing. So even though they can see his poor behaviour their dad is blaming you for it. If they call him out in it they have to accept part of the fault for making a fuss.
I wish my mum and dad had separated as I could have built a relationship with my dad away from the complicated marriage. It wouldn't have been perfect but it would have been independent from the blame.
Now my mum is dead and I have a dad who I resent and who I'm terrified will blame me for something else he does. So no closeness no connection just boundaries it is very lonely

You have to do what you think is best OP. You’ve been very dignified and strong so far. I wonder if he would have given you this much grace, had the situation been reversed?

Totally agree that the OP’s asking him to leave should have shocked him into his senses. And when someone spends more than a nano-second considering their options, it doesn’t sound positive. However I respect the OP’s stance on this, she’s got to do what’s right for her.

@FourAndFive if it helps my friend was having counselling with her husband. They didn’t see eye to eye on many issues and he spent his time in the sessions justifying his point of view. It was only when the counsellor suggested that if they weren’t making progress then maybe they should start talking about what divorce would look like. My friend agreed as she was at that point. He was shocked. He really didn’t believe his wife was at breaking point. That shock made him do whatever possible to stay together and was more open to being wrong. They now have a much better relationship and my friend believes it saved them.

It doesn’t sound like your H thinks this is make or break and that you are just taking time to come to a compromise that he is happy with. He needs a jolt of reality. It might be worth suggesting in your sessions if you are not progressing to where he takes accountability that you start discussing what divorce will look like. If that’s not a wake up call nothing will be.

They've told me that they're happy not to be hearing her name, the constant discussions, the gaslighting from him or me being so sad and angry - I'm doing so many things for myself that they love for me (more like forcing myself), and they seem to be thriving.

That and his whining to them about not being told who his friends are, he brought his obsession with her into your home to the point your kids were sick of hearing her damn name. Right there, your kids knew that was more than a friendship. She was a constant oppressive presence in your home through his actions.

And he's still not taking responsibility for your split caused by his EA.

They're happy for you to be out from under his EA partner and his hobby obsession. That's good. But it shows they have been affected in a negative way by their dad and his obsessions.

You have a good idea of what his behaviour needs to look like before you try to reconcile. But given his lack of taking responsibility and trying to make you the responsible party for your split, do you think those goals are realistic for him? He seems to have a view of himself as this poor, put upon victim who just wants to have an affair and go on trips with her while you sit home being patient. Even his kids know he's full of shit.

I think you need to put a time limit in place for genuine change. If he keeps up his victim stance, you could be sitting there till the cows come home because he sounds a bit narcissistic and he's not going to admit he's wrong.

Is there love towards him, in you left op ?

I think the deadline is interesting. Whose benefit is it for? Is he still living with friends? If he had to rent a flat and sign a contract for 6–12 months would this focus the mind? Is he waiting for his injury to recover and the girl to ‘return’ before HE decides his next step? Is he banging on the door desperate to come home to his children and wife?

I think you need to start choosing yourself over your husband. Stop sacrificing yourself, walking away is not without pain but it will give you peace ☮️

What he has done/ is doing is unacceptable to you. That’s the issue. Presumably if he’d done it previously you’d have had the same response. So the fact he’s waited till now shouldn’t, in my opinion, be of any great significance.

Of course I get your history, your previously happy relationship ( although I’d say in my experience only time helps us decide that. Years not months ). But please consider how you feel right now, how he’s been behaving for a year plus at least. I get no sense he is terrified of losing you unfortunately. As I think I said or suggested previously , he may have made his decision. He’s showing rather than telling. It might be he is hoping that a variant on what was the status quo is possible. Or if not, he leaves as your demand is unacceptable.

You have choices here. Scary choices. But you taking control will serve you best going forward, whatever the outcome. A Christmas reconciliation may well make everyone feel better in the short term, but please think about what’s best for you in the longer term. Take it from me that’s also best for your DC.

I am sorry to be so blunt. I am admiring of how you have handled it so far. I hope I am wrong about him.

People change as they get older. Many get selfish and become me me self centered. Unfortunately your DH has fallen in this camp. I know you loved who he was and your marriage you had, but gently, that man and marriage are gone. He is not that man anymore and that marriage is over. He effectively ended it when he picked her. I fear that you will indeed take him back and a year or two down the road realize you should have ended it and you will have to go through all this again.

The man you see In front of you now is who he is. He is not the man you married, raised children with and had a life with. I really hope you see this. If you want a relationship with this new man than by all means you should forgive him. But I think if you really dug deep down you know you don't love him the same anymore.

When you lose faith in someone you lose that love too. He has had more than enough time to choose you and your children and he hasn't done so. He is a selfish, self absorbed small man. That is who he is. You will never forget how he picked her. I do hope you are able to find peace with this soon. You deserve better OP. I hope you are able to finally chose yourself.

Just wanted to offer a handhold to @umberellaonesie .

I found your post really moving and thought-provoking. 💞