Something isn't right thread #2

[FourAndFive]

Thanks so much for all your help and support. I can't believe the first thread is full - there isn’t a huge amount to update on right now, but I am looking forward to the future with my head held high, whatever the outcome. I'll keep posting.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5391850-something-isnt-right-emotional-affair-or-just-friends?page=1

@Mumto21234 in my experience not without boundaries, consequences and a clear choice. A quick metaphorical blow to the temple (if they can’t or won’t give their own head a wobble) often forces off the rose tinted glasses and reality hitting hard finishes the job. By the time it’s exposed, the whole thing has been secretly constructed behind your back by a false internal narrative, bullshit ‘justifications’ and a history re-write. Once the cognitive crap behind it is exposed and challenged you can see it for the selfish bollocks it usually is. Sadly sometimes reality hits too late and the betrayed partner has given up and got on with their lives, so when the penny drops and they come crawling back, the betrayed partner no longer cares or wants them back at all.
Affair relationships that are successful are the minority if statistics are to be believed, and those are usually from relationships that were long dead and the affair partners wanted out already, with or without the affair. Limerance always wears off and statistics from infidelity counsellors demonstrate that all early relationship highs (dopamine highs mainly) lessen within 6 months to as long as 2 years, if obstacles to the relationship remain, to either fizzle out entirely or deepen into a more mature love. Most affairs implode at this point, as when the high fades, the risk to the primary relationship outweighs what were the benefits of the affair relationship.
Affair Recovery and Surviving Infidelity are good websites full of stats and information/ forums, they are about getting out the other side healed, either together or apart and do not push reconciliation.

@FourAndFive just a quick aside to say I think you’re playing a blinder and totally understand why you would want to save your marriage. There are ‘pick me’ dances and then there are setting clear boundaries and sticking to them.
Your course of action is absolutely not a ‘pick me’ dance. I am still in my marriage because I stated what had to happen in order for my husband to remain married to me, no negotiation or complaint.
Some things are not worth throwing your marriage and your life as you know it away for. Only you can decide that. Sending support X

I think you will know in your heart ( and mind) when enough is enough. He seems to want you to make the decision for him as he is too weak.

I think maybe the debate here over the word addiction is because it carries the implication that it's not his fault. When we talk about addiction usually, it's with the knowledge that the person has a physical dependency and needs understanding and support to break it. Self-discipline isn't enough to break an addiction.

I think the situation with your husband is very different OP, and that's perhaps why the use of the word addiction is rankling. if it's helping you, then it doesn't matter what you want to call it, but it perhaps has different connotations to us looking in from the outside.

FWIW, I am autistic and have ADHD and tend to develop overwhelming fixations on things. When I'm in the moment, it's all-encompassing and I really am not very interested in anything else, truth be told. However, as a responsible adult, that's not actually possible because I have to work and look after the DC, etc. I understand what obsession feels like but I don't think it absolves you of any responsibility to make the right choices. It's perfectly possible - he just doesn't want to and doesn't see why he should. And that's the issue.

I do wonder if a PP nailed it with the suggestion that he genuinely doesn't believe he's done anything wrong. If he really does just see it as a close friendship and doesn't harbour romantic feelings, he may be spectacularly missing the point of why you're upset.

I'm glad the counsellor was clear about his behaviour not being acceptable. Thank you for taking the time to update here, it must be really horrible for you right now. You sound really strong, so if nothing else positive comes from this, there is that 💐

Your children are already quite big. I think children should also be allowed to have their own opinion, if they are already this big. Your children seem to be loyal to you. Have your children spoken to their father? Have they said how their father's actions and words hurt them? How do they feel, that their father is breaking up their family and choosing this woman over them, his own children? Have the children said, that if their father doesn't pull himself together now and stop his ridiculous behavior, they don't want to have anything to do with him anymore, and they will never accept this woman. Have your children told their father, choose either your children, their family and home or this woman?

I had a similar situation when our children were 10, 14 and 19. My children said this to their father. My husband had some kind of midlife crisis. My husband came to his senses. We went to therapy for a long time. He has apologized numerous times over the years.

It feels like he's already made that plain, sadly.

An addiction of her or the sport?

It appears he may be obsessed and addicted to his hobby. However he has chosen to indulge in an emotional affair at the expense of his wife and children. The two things should not be confused with each other and one does not excuse the other. Your DH may be addicted to his hobby. BUT he was able to do this hobby before his new friend came along. Him deciding he can't live without either is a deal breaker. His obsession has extended to her. No matter what you do moving forward he will always leave a piece of himself with her. She will be like an ugly shadow on everything you do from this point forward.

I also think she knows exactly what she is doing. She is old enough to know better and is willfully playing damsel in distress to be saved. I honestly would not be a bit surprised that it is indeed a physical affair. He is too enmeshed in her and his unwillingness to give her up screams there is more than what you know. It may just be hugs and cuddles but his behavior does show he has a deeper involvement with her. Men don't normally risk their marriage for nothing. They almost always have someone waiting in the wings.

OP, you do have the right to wait forever. It is a hard thing to come to terms with. I would however advise you not to wait much longer. This is causing you more psychological damage than you know. You may feel stronger, but you are still holding onto the rope. Once you let go it crashes down on you again. Please take care and try to get your own therapist. You deserve to be the priority here and put yourself first above him and your marriage. I honestly can't believe your H is so incredibly stupid to even entertain the thought of losing you. He really is a massive dickhead. You are lovely and he certainly doesn't deserve the grace you have given him.

"She will be like an ugly shadow on everything you do from this point forward"

Very profound.

What are her issues?

I understand that you see him as a good man who’s intentions would be to support her issues but it’s never that these OLDER MEN actively pursue and obsess about being in the company of an older, less attractive woman or a even a male of any age who they feel compelled to support and participate in an intense activity with.

So at the core his drive is in reality is sexually predatory even if he is in still denial and the drive is subconscious.

You say she would run a mile if she was aware of what he had chosen and the impact on his DCs and marriage. I would meet and put her out of her ignorance and as is obvious to everyone else the risk of this predatory if she is vulnerable/has issues - even if he doesn’t / hasn’t made a move sexually (yet) he is enmeshing himself emotionally with her to her detriment. She should be actively engaged in relationships with friends / boyfriends of her own age for her own future - not wasting her precious finite fertile years and youth on the sad old man who has zero moral compass given the way he has abandoned his DCs, wife and actively predated on a vulnerable young woman - so much so her family had to turn up to check it all out.

I would be having a word with all of them - ‘sunlight is the best disinfectant’ all together - your DH can come clean in front of her and her family with you present that he has no ulterior motive - I bet he won’t do that!

My friend has a Padel addiction - there’s no getting through 😵‍💫

You should read all the OP’s posts from both threads at least. They have met.

Agreed, addiction should never be used as a handy excuse, because there are none, even for true addicts.
People with addictions are still making conscious choices, usually wrong ones: the only difference with a true addiction is that it’s genuinely harder to make the right ones.
However, the difficulty in stopping never excuses the choice to continue. It’s just a reason why it usually does.
There’s a huge difference between what are the reasons for doing something and excuses.
Addiction of any kind can never be an excuse for doing wrong. It’s a reason why the wrongdoing is happening frequently and hard to stop, but addiction is never, ever an excuse for taking that next drink or drug, no matter what that drug is, even if that drug of choice is dopamine caused by an infatuation with a person. Addicts are conscious of what they are doing and fully aware of what they are doing. They are actively choosing to stop or not to stop each time they are faced with that choice. Is it hard to make the right choice if you’re addicted? Yes. Very. But it is a deliberate choice and there are no excuses for doing it. AA meetings are all about that: rigorous honesty and no excuses.
There’s no get-out for him from this, addict or not. It will stop when he chooses to stop, like any other addict. No excuses at all.

Money could be a driving factor here.

Some younger ladies find the idea of skipping generations to gain financially quite useful.
When a younger female tries to usurp an older female it usually involves finances not just love and daddy issues.

So it could be predator with gold digger.

Well, some drugs are physically addictive. opioid withdrawal can be dangerous, cause seizures etc

Of course it's addiction. Hes married man and can't control his mind, consuming this lady's presence and ready for suicide. That's adduction to the feelings he feels for her

A normal guy manages his home, income, life and kids, working hard, protecting and marking HIS territory., not abandoning the whole business

Also a normal man uses logic and decisions not feelings to a lady who is his child's age

He's very ill and addicted to a human being who's really just a stranger to him. I am starting to doubt where his end will be in terms of life choices ...also think the friends parents know much more than they say and are grooming him to take on their daughter. May be she has mh issues and her parents need to hand her over to someone ....

He’s not ill. He’s a selfish prick who is choosing a hobby and some random woman over his wife and family.

I get this but he's ill not to be capable to make a sound decision. It's delusion and that's illness

The OP’s husband hasn’t been diagnosed with a psychotic illness so please don’t diagnose over the internet.

I kind of get what you're saying and he may be acting like he's addicted or delusional or ill but I still think it's a choice.
Calling it addiction is belittling real addiction and implying that he doesn't have responsibility for his behaviour.

Suicide threat ?

@CanIgetARosePinkFrappucino Someone making a suicide threat does not equate to psychiatric illness. In this particular context, threatening suicide can be a manipulation tactic.