Something isn't right thread #2

[FourAndFive]

Thanks so much for all your help and support. I can't believe the first thread is full - there isn’t a huge amount to update on right now, but I am looking forward to the future with my head held high, whatever the outcome. I'll keep posting.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5391850-something-isnt-right-emotional-affair-or-just-friends?page=1

OP, I feel for you. You have a long history together. I do hope you are able to have individual counseling as well. At this point they will help you decide if you could forgive him. Based on what you have said it doesn't seem like you could. You put up the boundary and he is tap dancing all over it. He may, and I say may with some hesitation, realize his utter betrayal if you serve him divorce papers. But then again, when you are at the point you are he has failed you in marriage as he is no longer your safe person. That is what it comes down to.

Your DH was supposed to protect you and instead he is willingly hurting you. He has put you in a box and picked up his shiney new toy. He assumes you will just be there waiting in that box. You are just another thing in his life devoid of feelings and use until he wills it so. He no longer puts you first and that is not something that can be undone or fixed. This is what makes it so the relationship cannot continue as it was. You may decide to forgive but it will be a new relationship. Knowing what you know now would you choose a relationship with the man he is now? I think probably not and that really is your answer.

I hope your DC also realize what a snake he is. Mental illness he feigns or not, he is horrible. I never forgave my father for cheating on my mother (who I was never even close to as I was a daddy's girl.) I was 16 and realized he was just a small flawed man and he has never had my respect or trust again. He lost something that will never be returned to him. The idea of losing his DC's respect should be spurring your DH to not be such a twat. It shows the depths of his delusion and betrayal that it has not.

Hugs OP, you have handled this with grace. Moving on is hard but you are a diamond that he is throwing you away for a lump of coal. You deserve far better than he can ever give you.

OP thank you so much for returning the thread. I've followed with great interest because your situation is EXACTLY the same as mine. I could have written your original posts. And, I guarantee you, your husband's 'friend' is no innocent in all this, encourages your husband, and they are either already having a physical affair or on the brink.

In my case, I became so hurt and gobsmacked by the whole faux-innocence thing that I no longer saw my husband in the same way and no longer wanted him back, even when he did, eventually, offer to dump the 'friend'. I was actually sickened. The trust was gone. The entitlement was grotesque. We are now permanently separated and there's no going back.

Wishing you well, and do update us please! Thanks!

This is the issue isn’t it. If he comes crawling back it will probably be because she rejected him rather than him making a positive choice. For me the marriage would be over.

I’m amazed you’re children want any contact with him at the moment other than to tell him he’s treating you in an appalling and unacceptable way.

He would need to sit in his own lonely shit of his own making for long enough to feel the pain and gain some awareness of how his his grandiose and delusional behaviour has destroyed each of his family members. For me that would take at least 6-12 months for that to sink in any insight to be gained.

The worst thing for anyone is he comes home and processes his heartbreak around the rejection in the comfort of his family.

I suspect the the OP has some mental time and space during this time of separation to gain a better perspective and consider what is best for her in the longer run.

With marriage counselling I would be sitting back, listening and letting him dig his own rabbit hole - then the pennies might drop.

She has her issues, yes. This was a factor for him, and knowing him as I do, this would've come from a good place at the time.

I have no idea if she knows or not, I still believe (maybe naively) that she'd bolt if she knew the shit storm he's created. He will not do anything to jeopardise her view of him. I can guarantee that.

He is at a mutual friends, quite close to everything so he could pass it off...

I hope somehow she gets an insight into the disaster he has caused.

No, not yet - but I will talk about it. I have a list to make sure all of my bases are covered, and he can't gaslight me further.

He does think this - cake and eat it. He's firmly stuck in 'a man of his age can pick his own friends'. There is of course truth to this. But we all know why that doesn't wash in this situation.

A man of his age can pick his own friends. But he doesn't get to prioritise any of those friends over his family.

No, not fully, I know that. Even if she loses interest.

However we move forward, things will be different. I will strive for better - I have learnt a lot about myself and there is only forwards. Better doesn't mean more in love than ever - it means with eyes open, awareness, diligence. I can't speak for him, but they will be my terms.

You've put it so well, thank you - this is where I am. The lack of respect has been boggling to me. This is what happens in active addiction - nothing else matters.

Can I ask why you are framing it as an addiction? That makes it sound like he somehow is not making a choice.
It's not an addiction or mental illness, it's simply that he has chosen to behave like this, to have his cake and eat it. Him threatening to kill himself just shows how manipulative he can be to get his own way.
I wonder what he is getting from this "relationship" with her that is making it so valuable to him that he would throw his marriage away for it?

@ILikeFerns , she knows her DH, you don't.
When a man is like OP's DH, it's like they are possessed.

When a man is like OP's DH, it's like they are possessed.

Yes, this is true. Infatuation does weird things to people

He may be acting like it's an addiction but it's not an addiction is it?

• My husband is obsessed with a woman but it's ok because he can't help it, it's an addiction, bless! So I'll forgive him because he it's not his fault. These poor little men can't be expected to behave in a respectful way if they're addicted to someone

She enables his addiction, it's that simple. The whole thing is built on this.

What is he addicted to @FourAndFive ?

I agree with a previous poster in being cautious about applying a narrative of addiction to his behaviour. Perhaps this is less painful than considering his moral failings and wilful disregard of your feelings. He is not choosing you, or the family you created. He is responsible for his behaviour. He is no passive recipient nor is he the victim of ‘addiction’.

It’s not an addiction.

Would tell the counsellor about the suicide threat.

I can’t recall your DCs’ age(s), but if any still live at home and need/want parenting (know teens can need a lot of energy/time at times, for example) hope he is doing his share of it.

He has decided OW and ‘freedom’ is a higher priority than you and your marriage , and may or may not change that. You too can decide what you do now and in the future. The door from you to continue your marriage isn’t necessary open, now or indefinitely.

@ILikeFerns , you're not helping OP.
If you've been in a similar situation, you'd know why we say addiction.

I can't speak for OP but I've seen a grown man come out with the sort of crap that a young teenager would come out with about Harry Stiles [substitute latest teen crush]. Shit like 'I can't help it, she's so niiiice! She has nobody else to help her!'.

OP is being strong, and I can understand that she might want to try to salvage her marriage. It's the friend the 'DH' s is sofa surfing with who is the enabler.

My husband also had a very close female friend years ago. They were supposedly just friends, but my husband told her everything. They also talked for hours a day. They have the same hobby, where they saw 2-4 /week /3-8 hours. When I found that out, my husband practically started yelling and raging at me. I demanded that he end the friendship. Our children were 20, 17 and 14 at the time. We also had a little over a year old boy. (Who was placed with us when he was 6 months old). Our biological children were furious with their father. Our children told their father, that they would NEVER have anything to do with him again, if their father did not end the relationship. Our oldest daughters also said that they would change their last name to my maiden name. The children asked their father, if their father wanted to be with this woman or with them and me? Our oldest daughter had just found out that she was pregnant. She also told her father that, if his father didn't end the relationship, he would never see the baby. My husband knew, that they was serious. My husband ended the relationship.

Can your children talked to their father and told him what they think about their father's "friend"? I think it would be a good idea.I think your children are loyal to you too.
Let your children tell him, that they want their family back and they want, that your father end this ridiculous and unhealthy relationship with this woman. Your children could also tell him, that in their opinion, your father is putting this woman before them and their family. And if their father doesn't understand to end this ridiculous "friendship", your children will no longer want anything to do with him. Since this situation affects them and may continue to affect them in the future, it would be important for the children, to also be able to tell their father what they think.

Op is perfectly capable of telling me if I am not helping, that's not your call to make

I do not use the word lightly. Or to get him off the hook - he is making choices, and I know that - however this doesn’t feel like a choice anymore, it feels like a force that drives him. That’s different from just being passionate about something. She is even more immersed in it, and I see the same pattern.

A drive that overrides other priorities. That’s what makes me frame it as addiction.

I think it’s what they call ‘limerence’

‘Limerence is an involuntary state of obsessive, romantic infatuation with another person, characterized by intrusive thoughts, idealization of the "limerent object" (the target of the obsession), and an overwhelming desire for reciprocation of those feelings. It involves emotional highs and lows depending on perceived responses, and can significantly interfere with daily functioning and other relationships. The term was coined by psychologist Dorothy Tennov in her 1979 book Love and Limerence. ‘

I’m not condoning what he’s doing. He’s a prat and he ultimately does have agency over his own actions.

It's a good question @ILikeFerns it is a heavy word.

It’s not an addiction, it’s limerence, plain and simple. He needs to be more strong-willed in his values and principles than an infatuated Year 9 girl, FFS.

If it is helpful at this point, he wouldn't disagree with me using the term - we have spoken about it. And it is the hobby he is addicted to.

These are the markers: Compulsion, loss of control, prioritisation, tolerance & escalation, negative impact.

She enables this and they have this in common.