He tells me I don't understand my body

[Anonamous789]

I've been in a relationship with my now husband for nearly 11 years, married for 7. We have 3 children, the youngest is 2. I love him very much and he's forever saying he wants to make me feel good or happy. However, I have one concern and it's getting stronger over time.

I came into the relationship as a virgin and never having thought much about sex. Over time I have come to enjoy some activity but a lot of the time I could still happily not. My husband insists this isn't the case - he thinks I didn't recognise arousal when I was younger and that I still don't understand my body. He wants sex frequently, daily even.

When he messes with me I react and he uses this to reinforce his opinion that I don't understand my body - i think I'm reacting because I'm sensitive... I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the insistence that I'm misunderstanding my body and what I want.

Yesterday I took a plan b pill (he usually pulls out) then this morning he is asking how I'm feeling. I didn't understand at first but he seemed to think I was somehow hiding the fact that I wanted to do something- i felt nothing at the time. But he touched me and messed with me and he ended up on top of me (completely consentual). When he was a little too rough and I said he completely withdrew and then as he's getting ready suggested I really needed that and that I had been 'itchy'.. .I wasn't before but I am now 😞

Am I overreacting, or is this something else...?

He is totally abusive this is all so strange, please seek help in getting away from him. I would be worried about him being round your children too.

If you're both sure you don't want more children, why won't he get a vasectomy? You've done your job carrying his children and worrying about contraception. Surely it's the least he could do.

As for the rest, he sounds like a sex pest and like he needs to grow up. Not all women enjoy sex, some people are even asexual. He needs to understand your sex drive, like that of most women, is nowhere near his (often also because the worry of contraception and pregnancy is all put on us and which makes us want it less) and he has a right hand if it's not good enough for him.

Agree with @Dery that you're American and raised in a community where talking about sex is taboo. Please consider talking about this issue with an organisation that isn't run by your church, but who will understand your culture better than people on this mainly British forum. E.g. some Planned Parenthood centres run a service where you can talk about these concerns.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-center

So, you don't want sex and when he pesters you and you vaguely consent (or at least don't refuse), you have a physical response. But you still didn't want it in the first place - and he's claiming that you wanted it really or your body wouldn't have reacted in the way that it does naturally to that type of contact/touch/pressure whether it's invited/wanted or not?

He's a rapist. He may not be physically hurting you, you may not be screaming and fighting, but he's a rapist. A rapist telling you that it's OK for him to rape you because he's decided that not actually screaming and fighting is the same as wanting sex. Which it isn't.

*apologies @AnonymousBleep I think I’ve mistaken your quote to me when it’s not.

So this is to me. Nowhere have I said she’s in the wrong.

I can't distinguish your posts from the plethora of other condescending posts about the OP's use of language tbf.

As I don't want to derail this thread with a pointless argument about how the OP expresses herself, I will leave it here.

That’s your problem then, not mine. Maybe you too can’t help OP effectively if you struggle with so many posts 🤷‍♀️

Because the really helpful thing to do is to tell someone who struggles expressing themselves that you can't help them unless they express themselves better? Brilliant strategy.

OP - please ignore all the silly posts telling you to express yourself better. I hope you'll continue to reach out for help as it does sound like you're in an abusive relationship.

Telling the OP to ignore silly posts is ridiculous. Firstly, how does she determine which posts are silly? Secondly, who made you the thread police?

I do think on these threads sometimes there is a deliberate misunderstanding of an OP’s terminology, disguised as concern/ confusion but really is thinly veiled irritation.

Not really the point.

OP is in a very unpleasant situation, as she has come to suspect, and is asking for help. She isn’t asking for advice such as the incredibly patronising and personal favourite of mine “use your words”.

Bore off.

what do you mean by ‘react’ and ‘itchy’? It’s hard to grasp what’s actually happening. Are those words you learnt from him? If so be aware that they may be words that a lot of other people won’t understand and it would be a red flag for me. Because it does sound as if he is extremely controlling and manipulative. If you don’t feel like sex that’s the end of the matter. You don’t need to be persuaded into wanting it, because that will end up in you never wanting sex with him again at some point. Can you go and see a decent psychosexual therapist to try and sort all this out in a safe space?

The female body responds to the imminent potential of sexual penetration whether or not it is wanted or desired.

It is typical for the vagina to lubricate when being raped, because it prevents damage and injury - it’s a safety mechanism we evolved because of the dangers men present.

It is so important to know things like this. To understand what our bodies do and why.

He’s not wrong that your body reacts to his touch. He is 100% wrong that you don’t know what you want. And he is criminal to assume that you don’t have the right to decide whether or not you want to engage in sexual activity.

I’m getting so angry about this because I can imagine how damaging this has been to your sexual development. Sex without consent has long term implications. It’s gets harder, and harder to feel natural attraction when you have non consensual sex. It’s literally soul destroying. And as an inexperienced virgin, he’s disrupted your natural sexual awakening.

There’s a whole body of porn about this too, so he’s probably found plenty of consensus for his misogynistic perspective online.

The problem with withdrawal (apart from not being very reliable) is that it reduces the woman’s pleasure. Have you ever? Do you ever Orgasm?

Consent is supposed to be joyful and enthusiastic anything less is coercion.

Please do reach out and get some support. No one knows your body better than you (and on the whole that does include medical professionals).

React = sexual arousal
Itchy = want sex
Messed with me = touches her sexually

Who exactly are you telling to bore off?

Wtaf.

I completely agree.

People then get annoyed when the OP doesn’t return with an update. I wonder why…

Like others OP, I feel really concerned about your husband's behaviour, approach to sexual activity with you, and his stance of teacher/all knowing guru when you are by it's very nature the expert on your own body.

Some questions I have:
Do you ever independently feel like you want to have sex or be touched sexually?
Have you ever had an orgasm alone or with a partner?

Some statements that may be useful in working things out:
Arousal is made up of two parts - physical and psychological. Being aroused is when BOTH are active.

It is normal to not return to the same hormonal and sexual desire baseline after having kids.
This is especially true if you do the vast majority of the parenting and housework.

Peoples baseline levels of sexual desire vary across individuals and across time. You having lower sexual desire than your husband does not mean it's true that you just didn't/don't recognise it.

Sometimes people raised in purity cultures or who have experienced sexual abuse associate arousal with shame, fear and pain. This can impact on them being able to experience and share their sexuality.

Bodies react to physical touch even without psychological arousal. Even people experiencing terrifying assaults have reported this. That does not mean you are consenting or that you are "aroused" overall. Your husband is wrong to believe that your body reacting means you are aroused overall.

In healthy relationships, people do sometimes think "I'm going to give it a go and see if I get into it" when they are not in the psychological headspace for arousal. The difference between your situation and this is that the control is in the hands of the person who isn't sure. If they don't want to, it doesn't happen, if they try and aren't getting into the psychological headspace, they stop. The other person just accepts this and does sulk or get all hurt.

Unless you have a tickle fetish, tickly isn't the same as arousing.

Sulking and pouting and being hurt or arsey if the other person isn't up for sex is coercive and sexually abusive behaviour.

All of this makes me feel so angry for you. He is not your mind reader. He does not know your body better than you do. You said I do not feel aroused this morning and he said I think you are wrong and will act on my beliefs not yours. That is coercive and controlling behaviour and unacceptable.

If you've only ever slept with him, does that mean he's saying he aroused you in the past and you just didn't realise?

A lot of men assume that if a woman is wet then she's aroused and of course it often means that... but it's a natural reaction to stimulation and doesn't necessarily mean that. It's like your mouth watering. My mouth often waters when I smell cooking meat even though I'm veggie and hate meat, so it doesn’t mean I'm hungry or want to eat, it's just a physiological response to stimulus.

I think you know best if you're satisfied or not.

Posters who seem more concerned about the language and expression of the OP than her actual predicament. Faux concern that they’re unable to understand what she means and worry they might give the wrong advice.

Yeah right.

Oh more thread police then? There are many posts here, some very in depth, which OP may not be able to understand and interpret adequately given her difficulties in communicating here. So it could easily be argued that these posts are of no value either 🤔
Asking for clarification of her actual meaning is not faux concern btw.

Yes but her head is probably muddled, when I realised I was being abused it was like a light switch, before that I couldn’t articulate what I meant. Remember we haven’t all had the same education, some people literally don’t have the vocabulary - I’m not saying the OP doesn’t but she may not. I’m sure you weren’t one of the ones that said it as harshly but some were unnecessarily harsh, you can say ‘please tell us exactly what you mean by this…’ rather than ‘you’re not 5’

Has she given you the clarification you apparently so desperately need, in order to help her? No.

Have you lot scared her off with your demands for her to EXPRESS YOURSELF BETTER? Probably.

Also - talking of thread police - MN have taken down a lot of the posts digging at the poster for her use of language so it seems they're not that keen on them either. Correctly, IMHO, as they're really boring and just derail the thread.