Help me process what to do about this friendship

[SquidProCrow]

I've got an old friend who I've known for 25+ years. I adore her: we really "get" each other in a way which is truly rare. We have similar ideas about the world, similar sense of humour, like many of the same things, have a long history together and have great fun together. Our DDs get on well, we've been on holiday together. She's part of my life.

She's always been flaky about making arrangements and meeting up. Since I've known her, she's prone to never confirming plans, changing plans at the last minute, taking weeks to respond to invitations, hedging her bets and dropping things for nebulous reasons and it often turns out she's chosen to do something else instead. I've come close to ending the friendship over this many times and have landed on a kind of stasis where I've accepted that this is "her" and that despite this she's still a loving and kind friend but this is the price of doing business. Because on a risk/reward benefit the pleasure of her company has outweighed the frustration of this behaviour.

But she's just done this again (for the second time this year) and I'm really at the end of my rope: a group of us, she, me and two other local friends, had planned to do a dinner this coming weekend and one of us messaged the group to check we were still all OK. This has been in the diary since early June and we've talked several times about what we plan to do.

Flaky friend replies in an embarrassed fashion to say she "might" be going camping instead but doesn't yet know. I messaged back to ask when she was going to know when she was going camping and that we could potentially move the dinner and she replied, sheepishly, that she's actually already decided she is going camping. So, not only has she dropped us for a better offer (again) but she doesn't have the balls to be honest about this and pretends she hasn't made up her mind, so presumably was expecting this to just quietly go away and not be asked again so she could go off camping.

Firstly I think its beyond rude, when you've got an arrangement in the diary with friends, to drop it for a better offer without explanation and I hate the fact that she does this so regularly. I can't see any excuses for this. Maybe I'm being really hardline here but I think its shit behaviour. If you commit to something with good friends you do it unless there's something genuinely unavoidable or its an offer you literally can't refuse. You don't just change your mind because someone is doing something more fun around the corner and hope you won't get called on it.

Secondly, if for whatever reason you have decided you have a better offer (for example if someone has offered you two weeks free in the Caribbean) you should be direct and honest about it, rather than dancing about the issue and expecting other people to wait while you pluck up the courage to tell them you actually have had a better offer. The sheepishness and dishonesty of saying she "might" be going camping but hadn't made up her mind annoyed me almost more than the fact she'd done it.

I'm really agonising about this. I don't want to be treated like an option rather than a priority by an old friend and increasingly this friendship feels like this. But I'm in my 50s and genuinely good friends are rarer than hens' teeth. I'm not going to call her out on it because I've done it before and it won't change, and I'm not going to block or flounce because its undignified. But I don't feel I can accept this stuff any more.

Curious as to whether this would be the last straw for others? Should I just let this friendship drift? Should I try to convey to her how much she's pissed me off? Or should I accept this as the terms of the friendship.

sound like you’ve had enough. You say she’s a genuine friend, but she’s not . I’d drop her and I’d tell her why but make sure she knows it’s built up over years and not just this dinner.

If you are already at the stage of thinking about letting the friendship drift/the friendship is pretty much over on your part then to me having an honest conversation with her won't do any harm and may do some good. If she doesn't like being called out and the friendship ends, well it was on your part ending anyway. If she accepts what you're saying and takes it on board there's a chance the friendship is saved so that's a win. If its middle ground, she accepts what you're saying but doesn't change then the friendship is over but at least you have the peace of knowing that you tried rather than random I wonder/what if thoughts.
Talk to her, doesn't have to be screaming accusations, just an honest this is your behaviour that I've witnessed multiple times and this is how it makes me feel

I think you need to reconsider your idea of a good friend as she sounds selfish and inconsiderate. In future let her do the running in terms of arrangements although I suspect you’ll find there aren’t any arrangements going forward. Look to your friends who do make you a priority not to someone who treats you as an option, you’re worth more than that.

I’d wait for her to suggest doing something instead of trying to make arrangements. You’ll soon find out how keen she is to see you all. I hope the rest of you are sticking to your plan and have a great night without her!

I’ve had a similar experience this year, wasn’t friends for as long as you but felt the same. Genuinely enjoyed this person’s company so much I overlooked her flakiness. Your feelings of ‘being an option, not a priority’ really hit the nail on the head. She flaked out on me for an event earlier this year at the last moment, literally at the time I was expecting her to show up, she texted she wasn’t coming. I didn’t respond as I was so furious I was afraid I’d let loose. Fast forward eight months later and I’ve never heard from her again nor have I tried to get in touch with her. So I let it go. I would say, If your friend keeps in touch and wants to make plans, maybe tell her how you feel then. ‘I would like to hang out with you but frankly I don’t feel you are reliable. I cannot continue to make plans with someone who doesn’t commit to them and will readily cancel if another option comes along. I feel like I’m low priority for you and that’s fine but my priority is now people who are reliable and WANT to see me. Sorry but think we’re at the end of the road with our friendship.’

Follow your instinct.

I think you need to accept that she's going to flake and not be so invested in her joining you. Just assume she won't come and plan accordingly.

As for how she deals with it. How people approach things is usually set in childhood. She doesn't want to 'get in trouble' so isn't direct, even though everyone knows what she's doing. She knows she's out of order because dropping people for other plans is really rude.

I don't think you should drop her, just assume she's not coming when you make plans.

I’d let this one drift. See if she makes the effort. Sadly, she probably won’t, but at least you won’t feel bad about yourself for ‘chasing’ a friendship with someone who doesnt care enough.

Thanks all

@Toooldtopretend her usual tactic is after she’s done something like this she will follow up with people and try to reschedule.

I am pretty relaxed about this sort of thing in general. I accept life gets in the way and sometimes people with families have multiple things to juggle. For example her DD may have wanted to go camping.

If she had been upfront and messaged us proactively and said: “Look, going to be really honest, DD wants to go camping with friends this weekend, any chance we could move?” I would have lived with it.

Its the dishonesty and the creeping, sheepish way she weasels out which annoys me. Saying she “might” go camping, implying that we all have to wait for her to make her mind up, and that we would just be OK with her not turning up, no questions asked. And the relentless failure to put things in her diary so it’s constantly someone else’s job to arrange and check stuff.

It feels like shes a social magpie and is always looking for the sexiest, glitziest thing to glom onto and everyone else can hang.

I think it completely depends on how you're feeling about it. She's unlikely to change at this point. If not telling her/putting up with it is constantly making you feel like a doormat, would it feel better if you told her that her behaviour is hurtful (knowing that it won't change anything)? Is she worth the flakiness in that the times you have together are so much fun that you would pay the cost of feeling a bit like a kicked dog? If that's the case, you really have to accept that you can't make firm plans with her and should always assume she will bail.

I will say that it doesn't have to be all or nothing - relationships are rarely as straightforward as that - but you could decide you're not going to contact her or arrange anything until you're feeling less annoyed. If that's forever, so be it. What you're deciding is what you'll put up with, not some sort of dramatic and performative cutting off of contact (unless that sort of thing floats your boat).

. I messaged back to ask when she was going to know when she was going camping and that we could potentially move the dinner

To me this was an odd response. Why wouldnt you just say " ok Sarah we'll book assuming you're not coming but if you change your mind nearer the time you can call and see if they can add a chair to our booking". Your response suggests that you're all prepared to move with her changing plans.

Have you or any of the group called her out before?

@Mulledjuice I guess I was just trying to be accommodating. I know her much better than the other two girls so I felt they might prefer if she was there.

I have called her on this before, several years back and her response was along the lines of having firm plans feels too much like pressure and she likes to be spontaneous.

Which is one thing when you’re 19, another when you’re 52 and have kids, a job and a babysitter to find.

To play devil's advocate, flakiness is often not a choice or due to lack of consideration (not to say that it doesn't result in actions that are inconsiderate). You know her lifestyle and personality far better than us, but is it possible that she has a authoritative partner that isn't giving her a choice about the camping? Is it possible that she is genuinely terrible at keeping and maintaining a calendar? Is she overwhelmed with city life and camping is an escape that keeps her sane?

I appreciate I'm being an apologist for the flaky amongst us, but it doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't love and value you - there may be a miriad of things going on. But you would be perfectly reasonable to tell her that it's hurt your feelings, you value your meet ups and you're finding it hard to maintain a relationship with her. I wouldn't let an old, valued relationship slide without an honest conversation but I would expect something to change if the relationship isn't working for you in it's current form

I dont understand your first paragraph here.

Quite right re being spontaneous looking different when you have caring responsibilities. I think i might have said "it's been in the diary for ages and I've booked childcare so either come or don't" or "we can either move it now or I'll confirm the booking tomorrow without you if I've not heard back"

(I am flakey person)

I dont understand your first paragraph here.

Quite right re being spontaneous looking different when you have caring responsibilities. I think i might have said "it's been in the diary for ages and I've booked childcare so either come or don't" or "we can either move it now or I'll confirm the booking tomorrow without you if I've not heard back"

(I am flakey person)

I have a close friend (of forty years!) who is like this. She wasn’t when we were younger it’s developed over the last 10/15 years. I love her so don’t intend to drop her, but if we book a group event I only commit if they are joint friends who I’m happy to meet with out her. I never plan anything with her that involves paying upfront unless I know dh or another friend would come last minute. And I always assume she will cancel so I don’t plan things that I would be upset to miss. I also will cancel for a better offer (because she will likely cancel anyway) I love her bBut she’s quite chaotic and prone to social anxiety, it doesn’t tend to be about a better offer..

With you it reads like your friend is a lot of fun but doesn’t value you. This would bug me and I’d probably back away from the friendship.

I think mentally I’d just recast her as a friend. Don’t make direct one on one plans with her. If you do, or she does, assume it’s 50/50 that it won’t happen. If it’s a plan involving a group of you, again assume it’s 50/50 if she attends.

Just ensure that her dropping out won’t affect the situation, ie don’t plan to meet at her home, rely on her to drive etc.

We have a flaker in our group, usually late, last minute, often tries to rejig to suit herself. We just don’t accommodate it any more. We expect all the above so just carry on regardless. It’s annoying but not worth upsetting the group dynamic over. She’s the loser as she’s rarely contacted now 1-1, and we never change anything for her. So it’s take it or leave it.

I agree with PP that it sounds like you are truly fed up of this behaviour and just want permission to end it. You certainly have that from me- her behaviour IS rude and disrespectful. I've had this BS from friends before and it gets really tedious and irritating after a while.

However, there are some other options if the thought of cutting her off is too much:

1. Mentally downgrade her in your mind from close friend to mere "aquantaince" and stop having any expectations of her. It seems to me that your annoyance and hurt is arising from the mismatch between her behaviour and the fact she's meant to be your "good friend". Those two things dont go together so downgrade her to aquaintance. With them, you have far less expectations and if you see them- great, if you dont- no biggie and no loss
2. Have a really honest conversation with her about it- express that this is really hurting you and see what she says.

Ultimately, someone could be the most fun and lovely person in the world but if you rarely see them and they are constantly letting you down then what is even the point of their great qualities?- you rarely get to benefit from them anyway because they're so damn flaky.

Really recommend the book Let them by Mel Robbins btw to help you unpick your feelings about this. x

I have a newer friend that is a little flaky, she is getting divorced currently and I would say her head is all over the place. I wouldn’t have put up with that for 25 years. She asked me if I was free this week, I said yes on Monday, she said great. I then sent a msg asking if still ok for the day, no reply. She has been online. I just leave her to it if it fizzles out then so be it.

I couldn't just accept this without saying something; "Why did you arrange to go camping when this dinner has been in the diary for months?" and I would do this every single time.

Also, I wouldn't want to just write off a long friendship but I would only ever make arrangements where others were involved, never just with her and I would tell her why.

In your eyes she’s a priority, in her eyes she’s a priority (she senses everyone’s disappointment) but she doesn’t prioritise the three of you who have made this arrangement. Does she think of herself as the life and soul of the party because it seems so from how you view her and from her sheepish admission. As you’ve tried to discuss the issue with her but had no success I’d mentally fade her, demote her in importance and focus on the others who will be there for the dinner.

I do this. For me, the planning is fun and exciting, as it comes closer to the time, I get social anxiety.

This might be why I like spontaneous, immediate entertainment, no planning, or opportunity to back out.

I love and value my friends, and also get anxious before a get together. I can't even explain why, like as if, it might not live up to expectations and I just want comfort instead.

OP, I'd just make the decision that whatever you plan to do is never dependent on her appearance. Have that dinner and have great fun without her. I'd avoid planning anything complicated with her, like a holiday, or relying on her to turn up with her DD as a friend for your DD to hang out with. Never book accommodation with her or for her. Never pay for a theatre ticket etc for her. If she drifts away, unable to make the effort to join in, then you have your answer. She's not that close a friend any more.

No need to drop her. But you should go ahead with your plans even if she drops out . She might not like it so much if her friends go ahead without her, perhaps she expects plans to revolve around her .

She gets a thrill out of the planning, the dream day or trip, then as it gets nearer reality sets in and she gets nervous, and prefers familiarity.

Ultimately she is missing out, it may be anxiety not arrogance. Also early 50s, there will be many competing complexities.