Help me process what to do about this friendship

[SquidProCrow]

I've got an old friend who I've known for 25+ years. I adore her: we really "get" each other in a way which is truly rare. We have similar ideas about the world, similar sense of humour, like many of the same things, have a long history together and have great fun together. Our DDs get on well, we've been on holiday together. She's part of my life.

She's always been flaky about making arrangements and meeting up. Since I've known her, she's prone to never confirming plans, changing plans at the last minute, taking weeks to respond to invitations, hedging her bets and dropping things for nebulous reasons and it often turns out she's chosen to do something else instead. I've come close to ending the friendship over this many times and have landed on a kind of stasis where I've accepted that this is "her" and that despite this she's still a loving and kind friend but this is the price of doing business. Because on a risk/reward benefit the pleasure of her company has outweighed the frustration of this behaviour.

But she's just done this again (for the second time this year) and I'm really at the end of my rope: a group of us, she, me and two other local friends, had planned to do a dinner this coming weekend and one of us messaged the group to check we were still all OK. This has been in the diary since early June and we've talked several times about what we plan to do.

Flaky friend replies in an embarrassed fashion to say she "might" be going camping instead but doesn't yet know. I messaged back to ask when she was going to know when she was going camping and that we could potentially move the dinner and she replied, sheepishly, that she's actually already decided she is going camping. So, not only has she dropped us for a better offer (again) but she doesn't have the balls to be honest about this and pretends she hasn't made up her mind, so presumably was expecting this to just quietly go away and not be asked again so she could go off camping.

Firstly I think its beyond rude, when you've got an arrangement in the diary with friends, to drop it for a better offer without explanation and I hate the fact that she does this so regularly. I can't see any excuses for this. Maybe I'm being really hardline here but I think its shit behaviour. If you commit to something with good friends you do it unless there's something genuinely unavoidable or its an offer you literally can't refuse. You don't just change your mind because someone is doing something more fun around the corner and hope you won't get called on it.

Secondly, if for whatever reason you have decided you have a better offer (for example if someone has offered you two weeks free in the Caribbean) you should be direct and honest about it, rather than dancing about the issue and expecting other people to wait while you pluck up the courage to tell them you actually have had a better offer. The sheepishness and dishonesty of saying she "might" be going camping but hadn't made up her mind annoyed me almost more than the fact she'd done it.

I'm really agonising about this. I don't want to be treated like an option rather than a priority by an old friend and increasingly this friendship feels like this. But I'm in my 50s and genuinely good friends are rarer than hens' teeth. I'm not going to call her out on it because I've done it before and it won't change, and I'm not going to block or flounce because its undignified. But I don't feel I can accept this stuff any more.

Curious as to whether this would be the last straw for others? Should I just let this friendship drift? Should I try to convey to her how much she's pissed me off? Or should I accept this as the terms of the friendship.

For those who have asked, yes I am going ahead with the other two anyway.

@Alwayslurkingsometimesposting

Interesting that you've brought it up with her before and she was defensive and didn't change. I have a similar friend but since we had that difficult conversation and she saw how upset I was she's made a big effort to change, so ive forgiven her. What did she say in her defence when you brought it up before?

The last time I brought it up was shortly after her LTR broke down so I was a bit tactful and soft-pedalled it this because I knew there was a lot of upheaval in her life. I've brought it up before then though.

The way she reacts is usually initially to say she has a lot going on/is really busy/some issue with childcare. If I push her on the fact that its a pattern of behaviour she will say she hates feeling that she has to justify herself to me, I'm not her mum, she's a grown adult and can choose to spend her time as she likes etc.

It's all true, it's just that there's never any recognition of the fact that her need to spend her time as she likes has consequences for other people's social lives.

She has some local friends and I think she defaults to them: she likes the convenience of being able to go around and knock for them when she likes as opposed to having to make plans.

If I push her on the fact that its a pattern of behaviour she will say she hates feeling that she has to justify herself to me, I'm not her mum, she's a grown adult and can choose to spend her time as she likes etc.

This is coming across as highly manipulative. You arent being her "mum" by simply wanting her to respect the time and effort you have made making plans, what a ridiculous thing to say. The fact is, she isnt saying no I cant make it like the grown adult she is claming she is, she is pretending she's going and then choosing something better last minute. Thats deception, not simply a grown adult making a choice of how to spend their time is it?

The very fact that you have brought to her instances where she really hurt your feelings and she is brushing them off as if they're nothing is evidence enough that she doesnt care. In fact, she is even low level insulting you by implying you want her to "justify" herself and are trying to be her mother. You dont- you just want some respect for your feelings is all.

Sorry OP but I dont think she is "lovely" at all. She sounds like a user.

Your ‘accommodating’ response to her wasn’t aligned with your thoughts and feelings. Don’t pander/accommodate.

Like many PPs I’d ‘downgrade’ her, not organise anything other than the simplest coffee or drink.

If she wanted to manage her schedule and friendships differently she could and would.

My DSIS was like this we would arrange a date and a time to meet with the DC. But she wouldn’t decide or commit to the finer details then would drop out on the day often two hours after she had pushed the meet up time back. Often she had decided she was actually going to meet so and so and I was bombed off. That was bad enough but my DC would be ready, bored and upset and it was too late to do much else. I eventually got the message and stopped bothering. I only see her by accident now and we live in the same town.

I also have a flaky friend who we will arrange plans around. Then the week before, or days before or hours before she will either drop out completely or message to change the time. She takes too much on (with part time work and working extra for cash, childcare for her daughter, additional part time work, full on exercise regimes, OCD house work, doing all the gardening yet she has a fit and able partner and cooking and baking for people) she seems to not know whether she is coming or going. I suspect ADHD.

This year I left her to it, never heard anything from her for months then she initiated a meet up, I asked what time was best and guess what two days before she wanted to change the meet up time.

she's a grown adult and can choose to spend her time as she likes etc.

This is absolutely true, but the rest of the world doesn't need to accommodate her.

I would refuse to ever replan - if she decided to drop out that’s fine but everyone else goes ahead without her.

I’d also stop making very much effort with regards to her. If she wants to see me, she can do the planning and organising.

If you are planning a group thing, fair enough to include her but I wouldn’t ever be prioritising her availability when it came to agreeing dates or activities.

She’ll either realise she’s missing out and behave better or (more likely) you’ll just see her less and less.

If you don’t ever turn up to things you are invited to, people stop asking.

I wouldn’t be the one to make next booking.
Wait for her to make the next move.
I think you will be waiting awhile. Problem solved.

This. Of course she can do whatever she wants to do but that doesnt mean everyone else has to put up with it or that there wont be consequences for her behaviour.

I'm afraid you reap what you sow and if you continually flake on people, eventually they will stop bothering to invite you to things because well, why would they when you cancel every time?

I think you need to just stop inviting her to things, there is literally no point if you know she'll flake. Once she catches on to the fact she's missing out on events then she can either make the choice to stop messing around or lose all her friends.

That's likely to elicit a change in her behaviour far more than people having words with her as she can just brush them off. Once she physically sees people enjoying themselves without her she is far more likely to realise that her actions have consequences.

I have a similar one within our group. Have now accepted and say ‘Jane and I are going to x,y,z on x date. Let us know if you can make it’ - fortunately Jane and I are closer friends so totally happy to just be the two of us, but equally happy if Mary joins us.

it always feels as if everyone is a better offer than us which used to annoy but now? Life’s too short.

I used to be the flaky friend before I did years of therapy and also before I was diagnosed with adhd. I had poor time management, poor organisational skills and social anxiety but to the outsider looking in you’d never guess I was like this as i was completing a degree at a top uni and was life and soul of the party. I was a terrible flaker though and turned myself around once I realised how bad my reputation was and how it affected other people. I realised this through therapy and learning how a lot of my behaviours were entrenched from childhood.

I’m not suggesting your friend is neurodiverse but the first thing I think of when someone mentions flaky behaviour is whether this person can help it. If they’re just trying to look for better options then fair enough that’s selfish and annoying. But if she finds it hard to firm up plans until the last minute, or to communicate her preferences about camping with her daughter this weekend due to anxiety you might not be aware of, it could just be a personal flaw you could gently talk to her about and actually help her work on herself.

Hiya. Firstly I can sympathise with your position.

I think the best thing to do would be to be honest - tell her that you are sad that you are not a priority to her, that she has mucked up the plans yet again for a better offer, and doesn't really have the guts to be honest about this, and that's it - no more planning to include her as she just isn't reliable.

I would not make plans with her for the future - factor her out from now on. Let her be spontaneous and come to see you at the last minute if she wants to be like that. No need to drop her, but don't give her the ability to upset your plans with her behaviour.

The onus is on her, not you - if she hadn't done this, you wouldn't be like that.

If she tries to get out of it, just don't reply! Let it hang and let her feel bad. 'Oh I feel so bad, you haven't replied...' - good - now you know how other people feel dealing with you!

It can't be helped - you cannot go on feeling like a tit and she is a big enough woman to hear the truth about why. My sister does this - it is supremely selfish.

Op I stopped with these timewasters.. met one lately ah we must meet. I said yes text me if you have dates. Nothing. Im sick of flakes. My daughter said her group same. People so flaky now

@Flopsyturvy

I’m not suggesting your friend is neurodiverse but the first thing I think of when someone mentions flaky behaviour is whether this person can help it. If they’re just trying to look for better options then fair enough that’s selfish and annoying. But if she finds it hard to firm up plans until the last minute, or to communicate her preferences about camping with her daughter this weekend due to anxiety you might not be aware of, it could just be a personal flaw you could gently talk to her about and actually help her work on herself.

I'm pretty sure she's not neurodiverse. She's extremely professional and organised in her work life and very socially gifted and charismatic.

I think its more that she's a social magpie: she's extrovert and very good at meeting people and engaging with them but isn't really interested in the hard work of long term relationships. She's also socially ambitious and wants "interesting" friends (in the sense of being good to wheel out at dinner parties) and, I sense, when people are no longer "interesting" enough to her she deprioritises them. She relied on me a lot when her LTR broke down and because our daughters are friends, so I thought we had a really strong bond, but maybe it was always a friendship of convenience from her perspective.

And honestly while I'm happy to support her in any way I can, I don't want to provide free psychoanalysis for her if its unsolicited and she's using me anyway.

It's just frustrating and depressing.

So much this.

It’s madness to reschedule at the last minute. I’d just stick to group arrangements and if she drops out then so be it. Prioritise yourself rather than her and her inability to commit. It doesn’t mean you won’t still enjoy her company when she does turn up but will hopefully take the annoyance out of it.

Sadly I think you're right, it's time to just downgrade her to being an "occasional" friend. It's just a mental shift which needs to happen. I'm so used to thinking of her as one of my close friends, she's close to my DD etc, so my DD will be disappointed. The whole reframing of the family narrative is going to be an adjustment.

But I've had enough of it. It's insulting.

I haven’t RTFT. Is it possible she might have ADHD? Impulsivity, always chasing a new dopamine rush, can be one of several classic indicators.

Someone has already asked this already and I don't know 100% obviously but I'm pretty sure she does not have ADHD. She doesn't in any way present as someone with any kind of neurodiversity. I think its more cynical than that: she just she likes to keep her options open and doesn't like "pressure" (as she sees it).

Even if she does have ADHD:

• you've already pointed out that this happens
• you've told her that you don't like it
• she hasn't tried to be better, or apologise
• she isn't calling off because she is overwhelmed and sitting in a dark room, she's prioritising doing other things with other friends over seeing you

So the "why" is irrelevant, she thinks it's okay to abandon plans if something better comes up. When her plans change she's not honest and asking to reschedule, she just ignores the situation.

ADHDers also often have time blindness, can be extrovert social butterflies and can thrive under pressure. It’s now thought of as a spectrum rather than ticking a couple of boxes.

Do they also have a tendency to prefer friends with more glamorous lifestyles? because thats apparently what OP's friend does when she picks and chooses people to hang out with.

Doesnt sound much like ADHD to me. Sounds more like selfishness.

But totally get that it might not fit and is maddening nevertheless.

As hard as it to process, she is not your close friend. Or otherwise put, to you, you have a fantastic, close relationship but it's not reciprocal. There is really no point in explaining how hurt you are by her flakiness - she already knows, but doesn't care. Or not enough to change her behaviour. The friendship works for her - she can pick up and drop in whenever she fancies, choose a ' better offer' if it suits, suffers no consequences for her actions and has all the rewards of a supportive, caring friendship for when she needs it. You're really going to have to shift your mindset of you want to keep her in your life; keep it casual and relegate to acquaintance, let it slide off you when she commits another no show and reduce all expectations of friendship. The question is: do you want to? As is stands now, she's showing you that you ARE just an option, so are you happy with not being her priority? Or would you be more content long term in investing in other friendships and using your energy where it would be better appreciated? It hurts, I get it and I'm going through similar at the moment but in my case, for complicated reasons she has to remain in my life, but if I had the choice I'd get rid.

I'm very familiar with all this but I don't think she's ADHD. That's not the issue.

And in any case as @SeaGreenSeaGlass has pointed out I don't think its an excuse. She clearly doesn't do it in her professional life or with her daughter.

She's been called out on it several times and told it's a problem for her friendships (by me and others) and she continues to do this. There comes a point where you need to take responsibility for the impact your behaviour has on others, ND or otherwise.

Honestly the more you write about her — her reactions to your previous attempts to tell her how you feel, to this about wanting ‘interesting’ friends — well she just sounds like an unbearable smug snob. Why do you so desperately want to preserve a friendship with someone who seems to not value your feelings or find you interesting enough to prioritise? If a guy was doing this to a woman he was dating, keeping her on the hook, to fill in gaps in his calendar when he had nothing better to do, everyone would tell her to dump him. But you almost seem reluctant, because she’s … charming??

How did you call her out on it before? Was it robust enough? Otherwise she might just think you're fairly easy going about it. Some people are.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.